130 replies to this topic

[Kavoh]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 29 September 2014 - 11:15 PM, said:

One guy bing a jerk (cutting in front of you) doesn't warrant you also being a jerk (shooting him in the back) though. If he's cutting off your firing lanes then he's taking responsibility for the target's return fire, now isn't he?

We can talk about whether getting in front of other people is a jerk move or not, but that's a seperate issue than whether or not you should keep firing when somebody does it. If you fire your guns you are responsible for where the ordnance goes. If you shoot teammates in the back you are responsible for it, not them.

In my first example, I clearly stated most FF is from people running through lasers already discharging. Which is what most people that complain about FF do. I can't cut my beams off early because you're impatient so if you purposefully run into my ER large laser then that's your own fault. In real life they call that natural selection.

In my second, I stated I hold fire when people cut in front of me despite that it generally gets us both killed because most mechs for example won't block line of fire to a direwolf. They aren't responsible for return fire, they're generally just braindead.

EDIT:

Kjudoon, on 30 September 2014 - 12:53 AM, said:

Dire Whales need to learn to check their fire too.

Every mech is involved in these situations. People just complain about DWFs because they feel it when they don't pay attention to their surroundings.

Edited by Kavoh, 30 September 2014 - 01:03 AM.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

As an paratrooper by trade. I like to think that none of my troops will run infront of me HOWEVER its still my job to make sure I do not have tunnel vision and have the situation awareness not to hit them if they do f*** up . Its not their job to dodge my bullets, its my job as the user of the weapon not to hit them. After the firefight is won I can punch them in the kidneys for being a d*** and be glad I didnt drop them with a bullet instead.

Same applies to assault mechs, stop being trigger happy all the time and thinking because your in a 100t mech your the most important. Odds are if you think your the best thing on the battlefield, your going to be the one complaining because the enemy lights killed you at the back.


Remember this important fact. Light mechs are end game victors, if your light mechs are fairly fresh by the end, they will do the moping up so do them a favour and give them some compassion its hard working trying to apply dmg in the correct components and stay alive. So if they need to cut past you, cut them some slack and stop thinking your the most important mech.... Your not. #Teamwork

Kavoh, on 30 September 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

In my first example, I clearly stated most FF is from people running through lasers already discharging. Which is what most people that complain about FF do. I can't cut my beams off early because you're impatient so if you purposefully run into my ER large laser then that's your own fault. In real life they call that natural selection.

Any decent light mech knows running through your beam will be minimal damage so it doesnt really bother them and to be honest, due to the beam duration i expect to cut into the odd beam here and there. It's stop and get destroyed or keep running and get a little graze:)

[Rushin Roulette]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 29 September 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

You need to accept that you are responsible for where your fire is going.

Quoted from the Murphy's Laws

Quote

• Friendly fire - isn't.
  
• Incoming fire has the right of way.
  
  

Doesnt say anything about friendly fire having a different right of way rule than enemy fire .If you see any weapons discharge in the path you are about to run into, then it is your fault. If there is no fire in the path but someone starts shooting after seeing you in the path, then it is his fault... easy rule to remember.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 30 September 2014 - 01:08 AM.

[Mr E Figure]

Kiiyor, on 29 September 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

On the other hand, far too many players either don't understand arcs of fire, or ignore them completely. You ALWAYS move behind where another player is facing. Always. It doesn't matter what class or speed your mech is. If there's a stationary player, and you stroll in front of them because your blood is up, and the drums of battle are pounding in your ears, then the blame for any FF incidents can be laid far more at your feet than the poor sap with the established fire position.

As I mentioned I don't have problems being shot by teammates when I pilot lights and mediums. This is why. I make it a point to move behind them when I need to cross perpendicular to their direction of alignment.

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 29 September 2014 - 11:27 PM, said:

I'd rather the light mech be fighting and distracting the big mechs than wasting his time on light mechs so at least theyre contributing rather than hiding miles back in a raven 3L midly annoying the enemy and not actually being effective or taking any of the enemies fire. That light running round will attract attention, take some of the fire off you and also heat the enemy mechs up meaning less overall fire in your direction. Pro's and Con;s!

1.) I would prefer the lights not attracting the attention of the big mechs, because if they do draw their fire and get stuck against a rock or a wall they die close to instantly.

2.) I would prefer the light mechs be primarily concentrating on reconnaissance and target designation, ECM support, and anti-ECM functions(Did you know you get cbills and experience by countering an enemy's ECM?), and dealing with the light mechs, not trying to prove themselves by out-damaging their larger counterparts.

3.) Have you ever tried to kill a Spider in an assault mech? I've tried it(and succeeded, but also failed) and I would much rather be pushing the enemy line and focusing fire on targets that are not literally running circles around me. When I play a light, and some mediums, I love finding lone assault mechs. The reason why is because Assaults are not intended to combat light mechs, so it is a bit of an unfair match up in favor of the light.

4.) If I am piloting an assault mech, I do not need a light trying to take damage off of me. What I need is battlefield intelligence so I know where I need to be. Knowing where the enemy is at allows me to manage incoming damage far more than a light trying to tank. Having ECM cover can also greatly reduce incoming damage.

[FatYak]

Moonlander, on 30 September 2014 - 12:20 AM, said:

Not to mention, the spider who sits right in front of them, completely out of light of sight, regardless of level of zoom you have, if any at all. I guess we're supposed to turn on 3PV when we're ready to engage the enemy each time.

maybe, but how the dire-tard manages to gauss the stationary orion in front of hime twice and then trot out the "you shouldnt have walked in front me" excuse when i was stationary has no clue what they are talking about

[Kavoh]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 01:05 AM, said:

As an paratrooper by trade. I like to think that none of my troops will run infront of me HOWEVER its still my job to make sure I do not have tunnel vision and have the situation awareness not to hit them if they do f*** up . Its not their job to dodge my bullets, its my job as the user of the weapon not to hit them. After the firefight is won I can punch them in the kidneys for being a d*** and be glad I didnt drop them with a bullet instead.

Same applies to assault mechs, stop being trigger happy all the time and thinking because your in a 100t mech your the most important. Odds are if you think your the best thing on the battlefield, your going to be the one complaining because the enemy lights killed you at the back.


Remember this important fact. Light mechs are end game victors, if your light mechs are fairly fresh by the end, they will do the moping up so do them a favour and give them some compassion its hard working trying to apply dmg in the correct components and stay alive. So if they need to cut past you, cut them some slack and stop thinking your the most important mech.... Your not. #Teamwork

Yes your first statement is very true in real life to an extent. However you forget the fact that real weapons don't shoot giant beams of blue/green/red/yellow light over 2-3 seconds. But I guess in the past it was the flamethrower troopers fault if someone hopped up from cover and ran through the giant ball of flame.

If you are stupid enough to run through LoF during a heavy firefight, you are the unimportant one. Most don't purposefully shoot their friendlies, but the world doesn't stop for you, pick your path wisely.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

FatYak, on 29 September 2014 - 11:57 PM, said:

i see no one has boothered to bring up the dire-tard pilots who still havn't figure out that their arms are a lot wider than their cockpit

that's like complaining a cruise ship hit your speedboat

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Mr E Figure, on 30 September 2014 - 01:10 AM, said:

1.) I would prefer the lights not attracting the attention of the big mechs, because if they do draw their fire and get stuck against a rock or a wall they die close to instantly. 2.) I would prefer the light mechs be primarily concentrating on reconnaissance and target designation, ECM support, and anti-ECM functions(Did you know you get cbills and experience by countering an enemy's ECM?), and dealing with the light mechs, not trying to prove themselves by out-damaging their larger counterparts. 3.) Have you ever tried to kill a Spider in an assault mech? I've tried it(and succeeded, but also failed) and I would much rather be pushing the enemy line and focusing fire on targets that are not literally running circles around me. When I play a light, and some mediums, I love finding lone assault mechs. The reason why is because Assaults are not intended to combat light mechs, so it is a bit of an unfair match up in favor of the light. 4.) If I am piloting an assault mech, I do not need a light trying to take damage off of me. What I need is battlefield intelligence so I know where I need to be. Knowing where the enemy is at allows me to manage incoming damage far more than a light trying to tank. Having ECM cover can also greatly reduce incoming damage.

Then you dont play comp or are not very competant in lights, The decent lights dont have ecm and to be honest I'm not worried about ECM. Only very specific maps/drop decks require it.
I dont generally get stuck against rocks and die, Im a pretty competant pilot. At that I can provide intel, kill more mechs than you whilst popping a very appropiate UAV not to mention generally smashing them with an arty at the same time.
And as for the cbills, I get more than enough cbills from commonly doing 1k dmg and 6 kill games slighly more effective than just doing a bit of ecm countering. ECM is more of an annoyance and talking to each other on mic. Did i mention that I give a feed of info on mech damage whilst im fighting so even if there is ecm, my team still know where to hit the mech! crazy stuff.

But I could sit behind you with a RVN-3L and give you some ecm cover if you prefer, but I reckon that you might find games substantially harder. But i generally prefer actually helping the team. A mech not in the fight is as good as a dead mech

Yes i appreciate the need for good intel which I do supply but once the fight and brawl is happening then It's more important im killing the mechs at the back. You can say ud rather me not help but I reckon a CTF-3D sitting at the back shooting you in the face with guass is going to ruin you pretty quick no matter how big and bad you think you are in a direwolf.

Edited by Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, 30 September 2014 - 01:38 AM.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Kavoh, on 30 September 2014 - 01:13 AM, said:

Yes your first statement is very true in real life to an extent. However you forget the fact that real weapons don't shoot giant beams of blue/green/red/yellow light over 2-3 seconds. But I guess in the past it was the flamethrower troopers fault if someone hopped up from cover and ran through the giant ball of flame. If you are stupid enough to run through LoF during a heavy firefight, you are the unimportant one. Most don't purposefully shoot their friendlies, but the world doesn't stop for you, pick your path wisely.

If you saw I mentioned, I often run through lasers and players should not complain about that, sometimes that cannot be helped but like I said, the damage from that is neglible so people moaning about that is a bit pathetic.

[Training Instructor]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 12:21 AM, said:

Actually, Hate to burst your bubble, but their primary job for any decent teams is not only recce but killing the rear support mechs and taking the fire off the assualts pushing in the front. Without decent light pilots running around the area, your going to be taking a LOT more fire. So when they do cut in front of you firing lines. Cut them a break, theyre pretty busy
Oh, and once again, Odd's are im dealing a lot more dmg in my Ember than most the people on my team usually. Not to mention a high amount of kills and I dont need to kill steal, If my team has made my target primary, I move on.

Admitedly there are light mechs who cut in front just to get that final blow and if they do get hit just trying to do that, then they deserve it. Hugging a mech just to get the final shot deserves a few rear ct hits



As a note whilst playing on TS, if I have to cut infront of people I try to mention it before hand if I have time, and if a teammate does stroke me with some of his weapons they normally apologise of which I reply sorry had to cut through your fire. So it does happen, just try and be cautious and limit the dmg, I dont mind running thorugh a laser beam as its going to be neglible damage

They always seem to disappear once the actual fight starts, and then only reappear when mechs are crippled, so they can clean up on the easy kills and pad their stats later in the match.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Training Instructor, on 30 September 2014 - 01:41 AM, said:

They always seem to disappear once the actual fight starts, and then only reappear when mechs are crippled, so they can clean up on the easy kills and pad their stats later in the match.

Yes unfortunately there are light pilots who do this. Any good pilot doesnt worry about his KDR only his W/L Ratio

[Moonlander]

I always find that lights in my matches rarely, if ever, harass the other lights on the field who are slowly lasering me, or any other mech for that matter, to death from behind, above, below or beside. Which is silly considering they're the ones who can keep up or get to their position fast enough for make them want to stop.

Edited by Moonlander, 30 September 2014 - 01:56 AM.

[Kavoh]

Arn0ldSchwarzenegger, on 30 September 2014 - 01:40 AM, said:

If you saw I mentioned, I often run through lasers and players should not complain about that, sometimes that cannot be helped but like I said, the damage from that is neglible so people moaning about that is a bit pathetic.

Other weaponry is generally accompanied by that so if they get hit by more during that it's not the shooters fault. Its like ignoring the sirens and flashing lights (lasers) then complaining you got hit by a squad car (gauss) when you ran in front of it. But yes I get what you're saying, however putting so much blame on the shooter and going as far as saying that they find themselves more important and should stop being trigger happy/narcissistic is absurd. If you don't want the risk of getting one shot from a friendly alpha strike, be careful what you do. There is caution to be had on the shooters part to an extent, but during a heavy firefight there is more to concentrate on than if the raven out of your LoS is going to Leroy in at 150 kph in front of you (the exampled DW cockpit specifically doesn't have the best view, so its very easy to be in a blind spot).

Let's note, people who try to fire while in the back of the pack and FF people are just clinically stupid. There is no arguing that fact and should not be included in any examples. Explaining to them how to feed themselves properly would come before explaining basic combat to them and should be exluded from being the basis of these friendly fire incidents. Most FF comes from people crowding in a choke point to "get a shot in" and that's where common sense comes into play.

[627]

TK by accident in the heat of the battle.

You can't convince lights to not run around. You can't convince assault pilots to zoom out before every shot and check team mate positions.

This happens to me all the time, you fire your lazorz with clear line of sight and someone steps in fast so he gets half the burn time.

Sometimes they die, sometimes not.
Sometimes I die, sometimes not.

Accidents.

Why bother?

[Kavoh]

627, on 30 September 2014 - 02:00 AM, said:

TK by accident in the heat of the battle.

You can't convince lights to not run around. You can't convince assault pilots to zoom out before every shot and check team mate positions.

This happens to me all the time, you fire your lazorz with clear line of sight and someone steps in fast so he gets half the burn time.

Sometimes they die, sometimes not.
Sometimes I die, sometimes not.

Accidents.

Why bother?

In the end, yes, this is what it comes down to.

[Moonlander]

Funnily enough, was just in a match where a Jenner poppd in on a target that 2 Direwolfs, one being myself, were laying down on. He was a Dakka build and I was using Dual Gauss. Where does he stand? Directly in front of the target and gets hit.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Moonlander, on 30 September 2014 - 01:56 AM, said:

I always find that lights in my matches rarely, if ever, harass the other lights on the field who are slowly lasering me, or any other mech for that matter, to death from behind, above, below or beside. Which is silly considering they're the ones who can keep up or get to their position fast enough for make them want to stop.

Got a few points on this misconcpetion of a lights job.

1) If your getting hit in the back your either too far behind the group and providing a good opertunity.

2) If you are are the back and getting harrassed the best thing you can do is spend as long as you can tanking it, the longer you tank it, the less harassing of other mechs they are doing. Remember its not all about kills/ damage, its about the team winning. Any good team will tell you that.

3) Theres no greater waste of a light than chasing another light. The amount of damage over time applied is minimal and are much better utilized in almost any other way. Unless your not in a fire fight. Noone should be helping you kill the light unless you have a dedicated antilight mech in your team. This is coming from myself who piloted an Ember in the majority of the drops in this past seasons RHoD (EU) which we, 'AS' won. <---- @antaresscorpions

[Roadbuster]

Another thing are people who try to steal kills.

In a recent match I had a Stalker in a narrow passage between two containers.
I was right in front of him with a Banshee and kept firing at it with MPL and LB-X10, melting the Stalkers armor till it was gone.
Suddenly a Cataphract clipped in front of me and got a full alpha in his back.
I stopped firing and suddenly a Stalker also clipped in front of me and I now had 2 mechs between the almost dead Stalker which I took down from 100% and myself.
Funny fact. Later during that match it were these two mechs which blocked me from moving back and got me killed because they were hiding behind me instead of setting up a fireline.

[Arn0ldSchwarzenegger]

Pug life

[Solomon Ward]

They either step in front of you or they block you from behind.

The real opponent is your own team.