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Dragon And Is Quirk Pass

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#21 Ph30nix

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 10:51 AM

i honestly love my dragons how they are, my highest KDR mech is a dragon actually....

that said hey im all for some dragon lovin :) ill proably go on a binge with it if they buff it. If they get nerfed again please dont blame me.

#22 Musashi Alexander

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 10:54 AM

View PostDavers, on 30 September 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

I am sure most jewellers would disagree with you.


Which essentially proves my point.

#23 Wintersdark

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 11:14 AM

View PostMusashi Alexander, on 30 September 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

The dragons are the most enjoyable mech in the game to me. I love them all. I love them because they're hard and few people run them...it feels exclusive. So sure, a few quirks would be ok, but it's fine for a mech to have flaws. True beauty lies in the imperfections, rather than in perfection.
In some ways, this is why I'd prefer they not buff the CT. After all, if the have X amount of buffing to do, I'd rather all X goes into focussing on making the Dragon hittier, and keep it's sort of flavourful torso vulnerability.

I'm sure they won't, of course. I'm positive they'll buff the CT at least. But I'd rather see it receive larger offensive buffs instead.

Edited by Wintersdark, 30 September 2014 - 11:15 AM.


#24 Mister Blastman

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 04:43 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 30 September 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:


Reinstating Dragon Bowling? You know... Goons...


Care to propose a beta tester for it? ;)

#25 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 06:30 PM

Dragon has a good cooldown quirk already in place,just put 2 AC5:s with tier 5 cooldown and range modules and XL-engine to taste like this

If its going to get better,ooh lala

#26 RockmachinE

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:19 PM

I know people might not believe me again, but the Dragon is fine. Tonight I had 3 rounds with 900+ dmg. luckily I took at least this one screenshot. I think people play them wrong. They are not meant to stand around and soak damage. They can do this if they have to, but they don't want to. They want to run free, pick their battles and dictate the pace of the dance. I can take out timberwolves, atlases, jaegers, you name it, 1 on 1. Mediums are a joke except a few specific builds and I hunt lights for fun because I'm fast enough. The torso twist speed is ridiculous, the handling is superb and I can swing my LB10 around virtually 180 degrees.

The way to play a Dragon is make it go 106 km/h, slap on whatever you want in terms of weapons and use your speed to pop, peek, flank and encircle. I literally fear no one in my Dragon at this point. It used to be that Shadowhawks and Stormcrows could kill me, they were my feared enemies and I respected them a lot. Now for some reason even these guys can't do much.

I use:

1x LB10x
4x MLAS

or

1x LB10x
4x MPLAS with fewer sinks both builds are sick.

God I need to get a gameplay video somehow, I'll ******* record it with my camera just to show you guys. I keep having this debate. I mean I have nothing against making them more powerful, but I think they are fine and people simply don't know how to pilot them. Play them more like a FPS then a mech sim...

Posted Image

Edited by Louis Brofist, 30 September 2014 - 07:39 PM.


#27 Zordicron

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:27 PM

So, someone explain to me how the hero Dragons are justifiably tier 3 while the others are tier 5? I don't see it.... only difference I see is flame has laser arm. But now we have ghost heat, and ppc nerfs.... back like over a year ago the forumites all said "only flame is ok and it still sucks" so is that where this idea comes from?

I also enjoy dragons, sometimes i get ganked, but usually because the team is idiotic and I end up trying to take on 5 at once because our front line got smooshed in 45 seconds. Usually I do over 500 dmg and either get kills or leave them so bad somebody else can in short order. They do play differently for sure. (NOTE: I havent run my hero mechs since before ghost heat, maybe even 8 vs 8, only recent play is on 5N and 1N)

Oh on the hero thing, whatever makes them UBER compared to c-bill variants, must be so awesome it forces them to with hold a module slot too i guess.

#28 pulupulu

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 07:56 PM

View PostEldagore, on 30 September 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

So, someone explain to me how the hero Dragons are justifiably tier 3 while the others are tier 5? I don't see it....


I believe the reason is that flame have ballistic and energy on 1 side, so builds like ac10+2xppc build can be a very effective peek-a-boo mech.

#29 Zordicron

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:02 PM

View Postpulupulu, on 30 September 2014 - 07:56 PM, said:


I believe the reason is that flame have ballistic and energy on 1 side, so builds like ac10+2xppc build can be a very effective peek-a-boo mech.

No dragon is an effective peek-a-boo mech. for that type of play, a 5 ton heavier Jager like a firebrand could do it better. The fact FB is a hero is moot, because we are talking about heroes.

Any IS heavy chassis can do this better actually, cept maybe the K2 catapult because the arms are so much higher then the torso, but it would still be more durable IMO. dragons really are hit and run background mechs, you can't peek a boo without moving right after anyway, and you have to expose 75% of the dragon to clear a ridge to fire.

besides, I can mount that loadout on the c-bill ones and lose almost nothing in play-ability anyway. And what of Fang?

#30 Kenyon Burguess

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:05 PM

isn't flame the one with the ac20 Ll build?

#31 Xenon Codex

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:06 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 30 September 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

I'm abhuge Dragon fan. I probably have more drops in my Flame than in any other mech, in fact.

I don't want to see CT buffs.


Same here. I like that people focus on my CT, it's a nice change from other mechs. I do really well in my Flame, regardless of loadout.

Only thing I want is a hood ornament for my Dragon.

#32 pulupulu

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:15 PM

View PostEldagore, on 30 September 2014 - 08:02 PM, said:

No dragon is an effective peek-a-boo mech. for that type of play, a 5 ton heavier Jager like a firebrand could do it better. The fact FB is a hero is moot, because we are talking about heroes.

I agree, those mech can do it better. But not significantly better at the case of ac10 +2xppc. It is basically only 1 heatsink and high mount weapon difference.

Quote

dragons really are hit and run background mechs, you can't peek a boo without moving right after anyway, and you have to expose 75% of the dragon to clear a ridge to fire.

Flame don't need to show 75%, because all weapon can be thrown on 1 side. Only showing up to left torso can let it fire 1 ac10 and 2 ppc.

Quote

besides, I can mount that loadout on the c-bill ones and lose almost nothing in play-ability anyway. And what of Fang?

Not you can't. Normal dragon need to show both arm when it peek to maximize damage, that's the 75% you are talking about, but it is more like 90%. Fang suffer the same exact problem, but now with 1 less module.

#33 Xenon Codex

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 08:50 PM

View PostLouis Brofist, on 30 September 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

I know people might not believe me again, but the Dragon is fine.

1x LB10x
4x MPLAS with fewer sinks both builds are sick.

I mean I have nothing against making them more powerful, but I think they are fine and people simply don't know how to pilot them. Play them more like a FPS then a mech sim...


I agree. I pulled out my Flame with this loudout the other night and had great success. Not as good as you, but I had several 600+ 3-kill games with most over 500 damage. Back during the reign of PPC/AC5, I had a hard time but today's environment favors the Dragon style of play. I never thought the LBX to a great weapon, but it works well on the Dragon at the moment.

Posted Image

#34 ArchSight

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 09:47 PM

With PGi doing quirk buff's on dragon's it's more than likely going to make the player's who already adapted to making the dragon fight well, over powered vs other mechs.

#35 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 30 September 2014 - 11:50 PM

View PostArchSight, on 30 September 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

With PGi doing quirk buff's on dragon's it's more than likely going to make the player's who already adapted to making the dragon fight well, over powered vs other mechs.


Well you cant nerf skill no matter how hard you try.

#36 BOWMANGR

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:33 AM

Dragons are among my favorite mechs. I have more than 1000 drops on the 1C variant alone. I've seen the Dragon evolve to bowling machine, nerfed to become an XL-friendly striker, torso-changed to become not-so-XL-friendly striker, nerfed to oblivion because of the Timber God/Stormcrow pay 2 win injection, then buffed a bit with Ballistics cooldown quirk and now reemerging because of Clan weapon nerfing.

After all this, I can positively say that a simple CT hitpoint increase is the most irrelevant thing they can do to make the Dragon more viable. After the side torso hitbox change, a good Dragon pilot is going to die from XL engine hits 90% of the time rather than Center Torso damage. Before the change I was always dying from Center Torso, that was what showed how much XL friendly the mech is in the first place. After the hitbox change the friendliness is gone. Unfortunately, Dragons NEED their XL engines. You can play with a standard engine but you will be gimping yourself so much its not even funny.

So, the CT is NOT a bullet magnet as people make it out to be, this was a fact BEFORE the hitbox change. Now Dragons have a problem with their SIDE torsos because they aren't viable without XL, a Dragon is guaranteed to have an XL engine. Smart pilots just shoot a Dragon's side torso to kill it faster, bad pilots focus on the CT. Heck, I even have to present my CT to some pilots out there to avoid getting hit on my side torsos!!!

If PGI is going to implement some kind of defensive twist on Dragons, they should add it to both side torsos NOT the CT. Increase side torso armor and keep the torso twist speed in place for example. They should do quirks that make the Dragon super XL-friendly since it cannot do Standard engines. If "lore" wasn't in the way I would just remove the "XL side torso destruction kills you" from Dragons. (and only Dragons mind you)

On another note, since there is a rumor about specific ballistic weapon buffs on Dragons instead of ALL ballistics buff, if I have to guess, I'd say AC10 buffs on Dragon 1C and AC2 buffs on Dragon 5N, quite possibly on 1N too but i'm not so sure about that.


EDIT: If they really want to serve both "lore" and MWO's gameplay balance, they need to think out of the box a bit. Since knockdown isn't returning, how about buffing SRM's coming out of the Dragon's CT? If they buff them enough they will give an incentive for people to just run towards their target and "knockdown" {sort of} them with SRMs. How about SERIOUSLY increasing the screen shake from SRM's launched from a Dragon? That would give them a reason to utilize that Missile slot that almost every Dragon build I see in game ignores.

Edited by BOWMANGR, 01 October 2014 - 12:41 AM.


#37 Duke Nedo

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 12:41 AM

I really hope we dont get weapon specific buffs. I would like to still have the option to build with variety without gimping myself because I want to pick an unbuffed weapon...

I am all for a general balistics cool-down buff, that would help all chassi, especially the ones plinking away with gauss or brawling with AC10/LBX10.

#38 BOWMANGR

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:12 AM

I believe a general buff will result in the same build minus a few variations. You aren't going to see much difference in Dragon variety if they all get the same bonus.

I believe that they should add General buffs AND specific buffs based on what a variant is supposed to do.

Some examples are: Only one Dragon has 2 missile slots. Buff its SRM values.
Only one Dragon has 2 good high-mounted energy weapon slots. Buff its PPC values.
Another Dragon has too many ballistic hardpoints and ballistics are heavy. Buff its AC2 values or HEAVILY buff Machine Guns on those hardpoints.

They can do so much. There is no reason to just stick with general all around buffs. Specific buffs will increase variety while reducing customization very little. I much prefer to lose some customization if it allows me to use a mech in a specific role that it was meant to do anyway. As we go down in tonnage and the builds are more restricted this should be even more important.

Assault mechs which can pick and choose many different configurations should receive less specific quirks in order to allow customization which was there in the first place but some chassis which already have 2-3 viable builds should get a specific buff on those builds, especially if those builds are role-specific, like Sniper, ECM mech, NARC-enabled mech and so on.

#39 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:17 AM

If i would add just one quirk to tier 5 dragons,it would be snapfire gauss,aka no charge time.
That alone would make Dragon a very tempting mech,not competitive by any means but it would make it a really good fast drive by skirmisher.

#40 Tahribator

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:25 AM

View PostBOWMANGR, on 01 October 2014 - 12:33 AM, said:


So, the CT is NOT a bullet magnet as people make it out to be, this was a fact BEFORE the hitbox change. Now Dragons have a problem with their SIDE torsos because they aren't viable without XL, a Dragon is guaranteed to have an XL engine. Smart pilots just shoot a Dragon's side torso to kill it faster, bad pilots focus on the CT. Heck, I even have to present my CT to some pilots out there to avoid getting hit on my side torsos!!!


I couldn't agree more. The people who go shouting "Dragon's CT hitbox is HUGE!" around have either not played with the Dragon at all and going from word-of-mouth, or only played before the hitbox changes. The Dragon has one of the largest ST hitbox surface areas in game and it's very easy to take one out by focusing one.

The Awesome's CT quirk for example, it's totally useless. Ever since the hitbox pass on Awesomes the ST's go first 90% of the time, so that CT armor bonus only makes the Awesome live a bit longer in zombie mode. It's wasted. I guess PGI asked some known members of the community(I suspect NGNG) and because they only had memories of the horrible CT hitbox days, they suggested a CT armor buff.





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