111 replies to this topic

[Soul Tribunal]

I think the daunting part is not so much the Chassis Cost. That to me has always seemed reasonable and fair.
What is the real killer is the overall cost in components after you get a stock chassis and need to outfit it.
While I don't think the earnings themselves need to be adjusted, the cost of some goods should be looked at.

Most F2P games need a finite balance in reward and cost to play. I don't quite think MWO is there just yet. If you make the grind painful (Premium or otherwise) then although you get new players, retention is down. If you make it too easy the same effect happens in reverse. We need to still find that balance, I believe at least.

-ST

[MadPanda]

There should be a c-bill increase based on when your account was registered. I'm too old to grind for the new stuff .

[Milt]

modules seem to be a bit high to me. if I understand the dropship concept, we will have to have 4 mechs equipped and ready to drop. 3-4 mech or weapon modules will cost on avg. 15 million c-bills per mech and an utter boatload of gxp worth of unlocks. and its not like you can just use all of the same type of modules since we will be readying up 4 different weight classes.

[IIIuminaughty]

Ph30nix, on 01 October 2014 - 06:47 AM, said:

MWO is actually one of the good ones but it could use some tweaking if it doesnt the situation will get VERY bad come CW because newer players will have zero access to Clan mechs so there will not be a large enough player base to have any real community warfare.

thats a lie they can use trial clan mechs when cw comes out

[IIIuminaughty]

JackkyChan, on 01 October 2014 - 08:00 AM, said:

Iam new player I just finish my cadet bonus and then I play for 2 days to buy a summoner. My avg is 64,000-100,000 C-bills a match.I know at this rate it will take me 100-140 more matches to buy my next summoner variant to level my skills.I would like it to be around 50-70 battles which means I need a 50% increase in my C-bill production per battle or more things to gain C-bills per match.

A C-bill buff or more ways to make C-bills per match would be a good thing.

that means u need to buy premium time

[Redshift2k5]

Milt, on 01 October 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

modules seem to be a bit high to me. if I understand the dropship concept, we will have to have 4 mechs equipped and ready to drop. 3-4 mech or weapon modules will cost on avg. 15 million c-bills per mech and an utter boatload of gxp worth of unlocks. and its not like you can just use all of the same type of modules since we will be readying up 4 different weight classes.

I'll agree here, I think that the overall improvement cost in upgrades & modules is too high, the weapon mods in praticular seem too expensive for thier relatively moderate effects.

[JoolNoret]

The only issue I have with the grind is module costs. The way I see it is one of two fixes for them. Either cut the cost of modules in half or make them much much much easier to move between mechs. Easy access for swapping is my preferred "fix." While outfitting a mech I'd like to see all modules I own regardless of what mech they are in. Then when I try to equip it I get a message that says, "This module is already equipped to another mech. Would you like to move it?" If I could just have that I'd feel much better about it. As far as c-bill or xp grind I think everything else is fine. Sure it takes awhile to grind out c-bills for a new mech. Mechs are big expensive pieces of machinery. Not to mention there has to be some kind of incentive to buy premium time and hero mechs.

[kuangmk11]

Milt, on 01 October 2014 - 07:29 AM, said:

I understand the f2p market and I have spent a considerable amount of money on this game. But my point was that recently the game has more than doubled the amount of things you need to be relatively successful at the game, while leaving the rewards at the same level. Back when they reduced the rewards given per match we didn't have near the number of modules or mechs at that time. I used my self as an example to show that some ppl find the grind to be a bit much atm.

You can actually just ignore all that stuff. You don't need it.

[Almond Brown]

Milt, on 01 October 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

modules seem to be a bit high to me. if I understand the dropship concept, we will have to have 4 mechs equipped and ready to drop. 3-4 mech or weapon modules will cost on avg. 15 million c-bills per mech and an utter boatload of gxp worth of unlocks. and its not like you can just use all of the same type of modules since we will be readying up 4 different weight classes.

So the problem is "Choice".

If you want every Mech you own to be max'd out (DHS's/ES/Full Modules/XL/Cool weapons) with every bell and whistle the "choices" are, play more or get your wallet out.

The Grind is not terrible. Wanting more stuff than your paycheck can afford is a human failing seen in many a folk. Maybe PGI will start a Welfare Program to artificially assist the hard done by's...

Edited by Almond Brown, 01 October 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[JackkyChan]

{that means u need to buy premium time}

Yes I understand this but i want to see where this game is going before I invest any money. Having to grind 175 matches per mech/sommoner 14,000,000 a piece at a avg of 80,000 C-bills and knowing I play 2 hours a day 3 times a week is a daunting prospect and that includes no upgrades just stock load-outs.

It would take me 12 weeks per chassis so 24 weeks to own all 3 sommoner variants to unlock master & elite skills and that's not even upgrading them or any modules.So as you can see MWO grinding is not a very good option for me or I assume many new players that come along to try this game out. Or buy into this game not knowing where it is going and if it will be fun to play in the future.

So that is where im at keep grinding away to possibly 6 months to a year down the road be competitive in upper group/solo battles or just skill basic and buy different mech types and just have fun knowing I will never get the higher skills or modules.Or the last option just find another game to try out and play.

Edited by JackkyChan, 01 October 2014 - 10:51 AM.

[Phashe]

All my friends who used to play TT and/or MW2 all quit MWO due to the cbill grind. 0-for-3. And that was BEFORE the crazy-priced weapon modules or 17mil clan stuff.

Maybe this is the "f2p" model. Hell, maybe MWO is 'generous' by some wacked-out comparitive standards. But for those of us who do not play 30 matches a day or earn "300k" a match (yeah...), the cost of modules versus payout is skewed

[dario03]

Increase XP gain.
major decrease in MC prices of standard mechs.

Heck I would even be ok with them lower cbill rewards if there was a big decrease in standard mech MC cost. Especially if premium time was improved or if buying cbills was less. I would even say the xp gain wouldn't need increased but I would prefer if it was.

[Mothykins]

Yes. I spent 15 minutes Stating why, but my mouse decided that the back button was the best thing ever.

Long story short, I've put money into the game and the grind is STILL bull.



Short story long, I'm getting pissed off with the "Spend money or get the **** out" crowd around here. At $15 an hour I'm almost going into the hole and have less than three hours to myself each day, so I want to know what sort of drugs these folks are doing where they think that the average person can Spend 5+ hours a day and drop $50 a month into this game. I: Low Income people have less free time, not more.

[Shismar]

Module prices are complete bull. Even chassis are overpriced, imo, and most of the clan equipment.

Solution: Don't use them because you don't need them.

Seriously, PGI is not getting any more cash from me as long as CB prices and rewards are what they are. Not buying MC or mech packages either. I have supported them with founders and Phoenix package. Clan stuff killed it for me. I play with what I have and can earn in game and it's all right. Mechbays are the only necessity, everything else is fluff.

[CancersCincar]

I wouldn't mind so much if the grind wasn't so... transparent.

You see a Vindicator in the store, all sweet looking and wonderful, and you buy it right up for a nice 3 mil. Then you realize you need a big XL engine for it, which doubles the cost. Add another 1.95 mill for endo and DHS and you're sitting on 8+ million in costs just to make a 45 tonner work in a competitive capacity (not that Vindicators are really that competitive, but as competitive as they can be). And that doesn't include any of the costs of weaponry you may or may not need to add on, OR any modules. Assuming you make 100k a game, win or loss, and spend five minutes per game, we're looking at about 80 matches, with 400 minutes, or six hours and forty minutes, of game time. That's a lot of time. Tell a newbie that they need to put that kind of time into the game to get a 'mech to be the best it can be and they'll probably be shocked, especially once that deceiving cadet bonus runs out.

Of course it always goes without saying that a grind is only bad if it isn't fun. I think that MWO is fun, but a good heap of the fun comes from messing around with 'mechs and their loadouts, finding a chassis you like, and a loadout you have success with. Naturally, you're not trying out builds or experimenting if you're strapped for cash, But once you do finally shell out all the C-Bills for that 'mech you've always loved, and it's everything you imagined it to be, the grind can disappear because you're having fun.

I think modules are horribly over-priced though. I don't own any because I can't be bothered to put so much effort into getting a tiny range bonus for a certain weapon or a bit of extra zoom that just makes things blurry and still impossible to see behind that brown dust cloud that starts to show up after about 1000 meters.

Edited by CancersCincar, 01 October 2014 - 11:55 AM.

[Thejuggla]

Income would be perfect where it is if;
Upgrades costed less, dhs - you buy them out of the equipment window but you gotta pay the arbitrary 1.5M to be able to equip them

Same deal with artemis except now you have to buy a whole new launcher(s) once you pay for the upgrade, they also cost more than a non artemis launcher I believe as well as artemis ammo.

Also switching back from say endo to std structure shouldn't cost anything once you've bought endo, but it just disappears and you gotta pay full price to switch back

Modules are just so expensive to outfit all your mechs fully with them, swapping between mechs with slow UI that sometimes takes a long time to hear back from server when you press save is more than just an inconvenience.

Overall income is at a pretty good spot if above things get changed (mostly modules other points are bearable)

[TVMA Doc]

Viktor Drake, on 01 October 2014 - 06:26 AM, said:

Nope. They just need to reduced the cost of modules and upgrades like DHS or Endo.

The cost of upgrades isn't excessive, but the modules are rather excessive given the fact that they are single modules. It wasn't so much of an issue with the older mech bay, but the new mech modification system is a relative mess. It makes it painful to swap modules between mechs.

[Alienized]

*module costs are too high*
as if they make you a better pilot. its good that they are that high.
i dont even have modules on most of my mechs. mainly consumables like arty + UAV or a cooldown.
and really, endo steel is not expensive. thats like 6 wins.
if you would think behidn the work that would be needed to install a endo chassis in a already existing mech... its cheap i guess.
also if you dont like to grind (i love it to be honest) buy the packs or prem time. thats how f2p works. because theres work behind this game and people have to live with from it.
so grind on like a maniac or pay them for your pleasures.
i will do both.

[Mawai]

IS prices haven't changed.

Clans cost more since every one comes with a fixed XL engine and other features.

Adjusting the overall Cbill earning rate would make clans not so much of a grind but make IS much easier.

Experience required to level mechs has not changed. Experience required is the same for IS as clan. Why would they increase this? Basics requires 14,250, Elite 21,500 and Master 21,500. My average xp seems to be a bit less than 700/match - this means that the basic tier requires about 21 matches, and the other tiers a bit over 30 matches each (some of that included the week of free premium time but most has no xp bonus) ... so it takes me about 125 matches to master a mech (3xbasic + elite + master).

Premium time would reduce this to about 80 or so.

Yes it is a grind. No it isn't necessarily that much fun. I think they should revise the XP system to make it more interesting AND monetize it but they don't seem to want to make use of every revenue stream available.

[Milt]

mech xp is good atm, but gxp for pilot skills is overpriced. 100gxp for an average win means you need 150 wins for one mech module. or 35 wins for a wpn module. these will also cost you 6 mil and 3 mil c-bills. now take into consideration when cw with the dropship type of game comes, we will need 4 mechs (one of each weight class) ready to go. there will be some overlap of which modules you use so the minimum gxp needed to run modules in 4 mastered mechs with avg of 2wpn, 1 mech, and 1 wpn/mech module will be 25500 gxp and 60 mil c-bills just in modules.

oh and if you aren't running current meta with mastered chassis and full modules. you really can't claim to be running competitively. (why I don't even attempt it)

Edited by Milt, 01 October 2014 - 01:38 PM.