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Is 1St Pass Quirks, My Thoughts.

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#1 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:40 PM

When it comes to these first set of passes, we all know which mechs seem to suffer the most, and which mechs see almost no play at all.

I'm really hoping that these underdog mechs, tier 5/4 are the ones getting the larger bonuses to make them viable, at least amongst the rest of the IS lineup.

Generally though, most assaults are not in need of quirks IMO, they all have their strong points. With exception to the HGN which has suffered badly since the JJ nerf.

I also think that the minimal approach is the best way, and do it slowly over several injections of adjustments, but always keeping the Tier4/5 mechs as the focus of these first passes.

What I'd like to see for a basic start.
(edited to remove % based adjustments)

LIGHTS
Locust (all) "Missle resistance" takes reduced missle damage
Commando (all) built in Radar deprevation
Spider (5v only /2e HP) built in Energy cooldown
Raven (all) stronger leg armor
Jenner (all) stronger CT armor
Firestarter (all) Flamer range + reduced self heat from firing flamers

MEDIUM
Cicada (all) stronger leg armor
Blackjack (is kinda perfect as is) maybe torso twist speed
Kintaro (all) missle cooldown + missle range
Hunchback (all) + L/R torso armor bonus + L/R torso structure
Trebuchet (all) + missle cooldown +missle range +bonus armor arms/legs
Shadowhawk (perfect already) +head armor +ballistic range
Griffin (all) +missle range +leg structure
Wolverine (all) +arm armor bonus
Centurion (all) +left arm armor / +right arm structure

HEAVY
Quickdraw (all) +missle range +leg armor +leg structure +Acceleration
Dragon (all) +CT armor / +right arm structure
Catapult (except K2) +missle range +missle cooldown (K2 only)+CT structure +JJ thrust +torso Pitch range
Jagermech (all) +ballistic cooldown +ballistic range
Cataphract (all) +RT structure +CT structure
Orion (all) +LT structure +missle cooldown
Thunderbolt (all) +Acceleration +twist speed

ASSAULT
Victor (no negative mobility quirks) +CT structure
Awesome (all) already quirk passed
Highlander (all) +JJ thrust +CT structure
BattleMaster (all) +RT/LT structure (small bonuses unique to each variant)
Banshee (all) +heat dissipation
Atlas (all) pretty good as is maybe +sensor range

Might have missed 1.
I've played most mechs, and this is where I felt they lacked the most.

Edited by Mister D, 02 October 2014 - 02:24 PM.


#2 LauLiao

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 01:50 PM

I'd say leave the quriks up to the guys that have the metrics, and THEN we can discuss the merits of quirks.

#3 Mcgral18

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:01 PM

Only 5%?

Oh...okay...

#4 Mothykins

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:07 PM

Insubstantial buffs that do nothing to reinforce role warfare and overall do hardly anything?

So game.

(How about we stop making rubbish topic like this and wait for the passes to be done by people who might have a clue ie. the folks with Data, and possibly high ranking players?)

#5 BARBAR0SSA

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:16 PM

Yen-Lo-Wang

+50 Armor to left arm
-20% Ballistic cooldown

#6 Josef Nader

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:27 PM

Russ said that all previous quirks are getting dropped in favor of the new quirk system. He also said the quirks are going to be much more specific and much more noticeable with the new system. Nobody ever messed their shorts over +5% leg structure for a mech.

#7 Deathlike

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:30 PM

View PostJosef Nader, on 01 October 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:

Russ said that all previous quirks are getting dropped in favor of the new quirk system. He also said the quirks are going to be much more specific and much more noticeable with the new system. Nobody ever messed their shorts over +5% leg structure for a mech.


Yes, +5% leg armor for the Lolcust was brilliant!

When you do the math, you'll realize that even the Jenner/Raven/Firestarter gets less that 1 pt of internal armor because of said buff. It's hilariously bad.

#8 Urdnot Mau

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 02:56 PM

About the Jenner... i honestly hope they give a armor quirk for the CT. Damm that thing has a huge CT.
I think they should compensate for how small both ST are and give a certain % (maybe 10% or something significant at least) of both side's armor to the CT (wich would basically means that they would be redesigning the hitboxes)

#9 Khobai

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:25 PM

Quote

About the Jenner... i honestly hope they give a armor quirk for the CT. Damm that thing has a huge CT


The Jenner doesnt need an armor buff. Its already half the size of other 35 ton mechs. I would like to see the Firestarter get a max speed nerf though to give the Jenner back its place as the most maneuverable 35 tonner.

-Firestarter should have the most firepower but at the cost of max speed (should top out at around 135-140)
-Jenner should have the best balance of firepower and maneuverability
-Raven should have the best setup for sensor warfare and long range sniping

As for lights that actually need survivability buffs... the Locust and Commando are at the top of the list. They both need substantial internal structure buffs. The reason why internal structure should be increased is because it improves their survivability regardless of whether theyre hit front or back, and having to split your paltry amount of armor between front/back is a huge problem on mechs like the Locust/Commando.

Edited by Khobai, 01 October 2014 - 03:43 PM.


#10 Eddrick

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 03:44 PM

View PostMister D, on 01 October 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

HEAVY
Catapult (all) +10% missle range +5% missle cooldown +20% CT structure


Catapult-K2 doesn't use Missiles. Going to just boost CT structure on it?

Edited by Eddrick, 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM.


#11 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:00 PM

View PostCavale, on 01 October 2014 - 02:07 PM, said:

(How about we stop making rubbish topic like this and wait for the passes to be done by people who might have a clue ie. the folks with Data, and possibly high ranking players?)


Why act threatened then, knowing that nobody listens to low rank clueless players like me anyway.

Its just to maybe shift some attention towards what could be useful for some of these mechs.

The whole 5% boosts, is smart IMO, start minimal and adjust slowly.

Everytime a nerf/boost is done to this game, its usually way too much, so I say Start slow with small adjustments, test, adjust, test, adjust some more, at the point that posts start coming up that say OP OP NERF NERF. Stop, roll it back a tiny bit. and call it good.

At the very least to get the discussion on which mechs needs what most, and where.

#12 Asyres

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:26 PM

View PostMister D, on 01 October 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:


Why act threatened then, knowing that nobody listens to low rank clueless players like me anyway.

Its just to maybe shift some attention towards what could be useful for some of these mechs.

The whole 5% boosts, is smart IMO, start minimal and adjust slowly.

Everytime a nerf/boost is done to this game, its usually way too much, so I say Start slow with small adjustments, test, adjust, test, adjust some more, at the point that posts start coming up that say OP OP NERF NERF. Stop, roll it back a tiny bit. and call it good.

At the very least to get the discussion on which mechs needs what most, and where.


That's the whole point of a tier system though - the 'mechs in the bottom tiers need a whole lot more than a 5% boost to a couple stats to pass muster. The kind of quirks that would make, say, a locust legitimately overpowered would be insane. On the balance, it's probably better to over-buff some of these chassis, and then reign them back in, than to leave things as they are.

Even if they somehow made the LCT-1V into a 20t wrecking ball, the resulting shakeup to the meta would probably lead to more fun in the short run, and could be rebalanced using - you guessed it - incremental changes in the medium and long run.

#13 Dracol

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:28 PM

View PostMister D, on 01 October 2014 - 04:00 PM, said:

The whole 5% boosts, is smart IMO, start minimal and adjust slowly.

Everytime a nerf/boost is done to this game, its usually way too much, so I say Start slow with small adjustments, test, adjust, test, adjust some more, at the point that posts start coming up that say OP OP NERF NERF. Stop, roll it back a tiny bit. and call it good.

At the very least to get the discussion on which mechs needs what most, and where.

Although to a certain extent I agree changes shouldn't be all to drastic. The fact that a major revision to nearly all IS mechs is being put into place to increase their win potential above the current average of 25% kinda lends itself to some hefty bumps.

One interesting thing in your list was the Radar deprivation. Although nullifying a module for a mech might not be the best way to go about it, I definitely agree on a buff to the commando's ability to drop off of radar.

Khonai's notion of bumping internals instead of armor on torsos is spot on. Some mechs known for hit and run tactics could benefit from a set point increase for rear armor sections.

Edited by Dracol, 01 October 2014 - 04:29 PM.


#14 BumbleBee

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM

View PostUrdnot Mau, on 01 October 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

About the Jenner... i honestly hope they give a armor quirk for the CT. Damm that thing has a huge CT.
I think they should compensate for how small both ST are and give a certain % (maybe 10% or something significant at least) of both side's armor to the CT (wich would basically means that they would be redesigning the hitboxes)


You are aware that having small ST hitboxes and a big CT hitbox is a GOOD THING don't you?

That means there is no real downside to taking an XL engine, more weapons, armour, heatsinks, faster engine...

Unless you are asking for a NERF to the Jenner...


edit, I misread your post, but ill keep mine here anyway

Edited by BumbleBee, 01 October 2014 - 05:06 PM.


#15 DEN_Ninja

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:39 PM

How and why are we discussing quirks that have yet to be seen or implemented yet?

Calm the hell down until the 21st. Holy crap.

#16 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:11 PM

Because if we don't at least voice an opinion on it NOW, I have a genuine fear that a good # of the tier5/4 mechs will continue to be shrugged off.

Good mechs like the Commando, Dragon, Quickdraw, Trebuchet, Thunderbolt need their day in the sun.

If we can have a little bit of community drive to bring some much needed attention to these mechs to get them
out of the "worthless cannon fodder" realm, it would be great for the game overall.

#17 Alienized

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:20 PM

i drive 3 of these mechs and i cant say that they are worthless cannon fodder. QKD-5K ranked 12th in last tournament,
my TBT done series of 600dmg+ and survived at 17% while rolling XL engine, the dragon just faced 3 assaults and came out alive with 945 damage.

they are good. if the team let them be and that will propably always be the mainproblem.
i wait for the announcements and express my opinion there. until then i just have fun with beeing underestimated :P

#18 Asyres

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:23 PM

View PostMister D, on 01 October 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

Because if we don't at least voice an opinion on it NOW, I have a genuine fear that a good # of the tier5/4 mechs will continue to be shrugged off.

Good mechs like the Commando, Dragon, Quickdraw, Trebuchet, Thunderbolt need their day in the sun.

If we can have a little bit of community drive to bring some much needed attention to these mechs to get them
out of the "worthless cannon fodder" realm, it would be great for the game overall.


So your argument is that you agree that these mechs need attention, and the attention they need is... 10% stronger leg armor (Raven)? That's 3 armor. I'm sorry, but that's not gonna do the trick.

You want to make these viable? Be bold. How about:

LCT-1V: +50% fire rate with machine guns. It's still fragile as hell, but now any exposed bit it looks at spontaneously explodes. And you know what? That's still probably not enough to make it "good."

#19 Alienized

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:28 PM

the only thing that makes the locust useful would be light armored vehicles or hovercrafts. oh boy hovercrafts would be awesome lol.

#20 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 07:36 PM

I know you guys don't agree with it.
But BIG %'s and #'s in changes is why we have

Bad JumpJet mechanics now
All but unused PPC/ERPPC (50% speed drop)
Such an Uproar during the LRM speed balances
50% heat gain for Clan Small &pulse lasers
Light mechs blowing their own legs out
Mechs getting stuck on pebbles 1 meter high, or can't climb slopes.
An assault mech collecting dust in our mechbays (Victor -20% nerf to all turning/aiming)
AC-20 & AC-10 that feels like a midget throwing a bowling ball.

So yeah, have BIG goals in mind, but start small and slow and gradual if you actually want a balanced result.
Kneejerk balances and overkill is not the smart path here, or anywhere.





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