100 replies to this topic

[cSand]

Mcgral18, on 01 October 2014 - 04:57 PM, said:

Tell us, is every Clan mech better? Or just two? (Or 3, if you're afraid of the Whale)

What about the other 5? The Cute Fox, the Badder, the Nope-Va, the Suckoner and the PeaceDove?

Shall we blanket nerf those further into uselessness? WubFox was killed by a 150% heat nerf, a JJ nerf, soon to be a engine nerf. Yet, the WubFox was barely functional BEFORE these nerfs.

The Suckoner

[Xarian]

The Summoner is a piece of crap. Compared even to a TBR, you lose ~40% of your firepower for a 10% increase in mobility. It's not a good tradeoff. In theory, you'd gain a huge increase in mobility that would balance out the loss of firepower, but that's just not the case.

I'm not attacking you; you're just wrong.

[cSand]

Aliisa White, on 01 October 2014 - 10:07 PM, said:

what would all the quickdraws and dragons say about this....

They'd say CARRY HARDER SON

[Alienized]

yes indeed. admit it, the logic that a 70ton with the firepower of a medium is useless fails totally. it might have low alpha but high rof. thats how my dragon works.

i would like to see your loadout tho cSand

[cSand]

4 mlas and 3 srm4, with an XL 340 I think.

Good to see someone representin with the underdog mechs

Edited by cSand, 01 October 2014 - 11:30 PM.

[Alienized]

always. love my QKD-5K not a killer, more of a supporter and damage-soaker. just proves what you can do with a QKD

[cSand]

Ah yes, I love the 5K with 6 medium pulse

Check your messages, btw

Edited by cSand, 01 October 2014 - 11:34 PM.

[Alex Gorsky]

Clanners lets some cry too...IS - OP they need the fixed engine size.

Edited by Alex Gorsky, 01 October 2014 - 11:35 PM.

[Alienized]

eh mine has std 300 engine, 2 er large lasers and 2 medium lasers. works so fine XD

[Sirius Drake]

Darian DelFord, on 01 October 2014 - 05:08 PM, said:

Hate to say this but with the IS Quirks, the XL engine change, Clans are going to be hurting in CW, I do not know why people can not see that. I eat clans mechs for lunch in my Jenner and Ember. About the only chassis I have a problem with is the Mad Cat and thats only because of its Torso Twist.

I really wish they would stop listening to the NGNG "Competitive personalities" and listen to people who actually know how to play the game.

This.
You just won a place in my sig with the last one.

[Kutfroat]

Chemie, on 01 October 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

This will help in random pug games where idiots take tier 5 mechs. In organized 12-mans, where only Tier1/2 exist, going up against 3xdire and 3xtimber 3xstorm, the outcome is clan everytime

so people that like diversity and like to play more than 1 chassis per weightclass and have fun are idiots to you...oh the irony...need a mirror, idiot?

[Alienized]

cSand, on 01 October 2014 - 10:59 PM, said:

The Suckoner

looks like we have something new to play with

[Zolaz]

Mcgral18, on 01 October 2014 - 06:08 PM, said:

Now, that's just a bold faced lie.

cLRMs, against any AMS are virtually worthless. You NEED to boat twice as many to have any effect.


cACs are completely inferior. Suckoner is worse than Jaegers and CTFs.

Not a lie at all. Let me remind you of some things you seem to have forgotten ...

CLRMs are smaller and lighter. Also, there is no min range for CLRMs. That means that Clan mechs can carry more armament for less tons. So smaller mechs carry more firepower than IS mechs of equivalent weight.

You think CACs are worse than the IS? You do see Direwolves running around with 6 of them dont you? How many IS mechs do you see running around with 6 UACs? Not to mention that they are Ultra versions that the IS does not even get. Comparing an Atlas to a Direwolf is crazy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zolaz, on 01 October 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

PGI has done a lot of "tweaking " to clan mechs but they are still better than IS counter parts. Clan weapons are better, Clan equipment is better, Clan Engines are better. Everything the Clan has is better than IS.

That is why you see a lot of competitive teams running nothing but Clan mechs. I thought PGI was talking to competitive teams to try and fix this imbalance? Did PGI not listen or what is the deal?

If CW was released today, it would be a one sided battle with Clan mechs rolling over the IS.

If everything is as you say, then yes, The Clans are balanced. And if CW launched today, Then the scenarios would roll as intended. Cause the Clans did roll over the IS every battle.

[FrogToad]

I see it this way: Clan mechs are balanced even as they are and without the upcoming IS quirks. Looking at the different aspects it comes to par.
IS has multiple mechs of varying roles. Clans have their omnnipods.
Clans can mount more weapons. IS weapons run cooler.
Clans have fixed engine sizes but are sturdier even with XL engines. IS can change engine type and size.
Clans have only 2 ECM capable chassis. IS has 4 ECM capable chassis.
Clans will have only one fast light. IS already has multiple lightning fast lights.
I could go on with this but in the end it comes down to every upside has its downside as well on the clan mechs as on the IS mechs.
Everything could be more perfect and tweaking/finetuning will always be needed. But overall it is balanced.

[Widowmaker1981]

I think in order to comment on clan balance, you should have to play the mechs, for a decent amount of time.

end of match screen damage numbers mean little - clan mechs with longer burn time lasers, burst ACs and stream LRMs spread damage around like a beast, thus typically getting much higher dmg per kill. Grows ePeen, but not more effective.

Smurfy mech builder will always, always make clans look obscenely OP, because all you see is 'but look at all the gunz it can fit!' due to following TT build rules, they cant change this ever, so it will look like this on smufys forever - i bet even if they nerfed all clan weapons to 1 damage 10 heat, people would still think they are OP based on Smurfys

[Joseph Mallan]

Widowmaker1981, on 02 October 2014 - 01:24 AM, said:

I think in order to comment on clan balance, you should have to play the mechs, for a decent amount of time.

end of match screen damage numbers mean little - clan mechs with longer burn time lasers, burst ACs and stream LRMs spread damage around like a beast, thus typically getting much higher dmg per kill. Grows ePeen, but not more effective.

Smurfy mech builder will always, always make clans look obscenely OP, because all you see is 'but look at all the gunz it can fit!' due to following TT build rules, they cant change this ever, so it will look like this on smufys forever - i bet even if they nerfed all clan weapons to 1 damage 10 heat, people would still think they are OP based on Smurfys

It has nothing to do with Smurfy Widow. If a Locust touched lil Billy to hard lil Billy would be on here complaining that a 20 ton Mech with a Medium laser is OP and needing Nerfed. Instead of looking in the mirror and manning up!

[Estonniel]

Alek Ituin, on 01 October 2014 - 09:02 PM, said:

Actually, if you would read it comes down to:

More Mobility + Moderate Firepower

Is better than

Less Mobility + Loadz a Dakka


Basically all of the greatest tacticians mirror this sentiment, my arrogance is not a factor in my critique of your playstyle. It's Rommel, Sun Tzu, Yi Soon Shin, basically every skirmisher in the American Revolution, the Vietcong, the IJA forces in WWII... You know, all the leaders of numerically inferior forces (or numerically inferior forces) who could demolish (or cause serious damage to) opponents with a 2:1 or even 3:1 advantage using DUNDUNDUN - Mobility.

Dakka aint shiznit if you can't shoot the git that's shootin you. There's a reason we don't just stand in lines and shoot each other in turns anymore (Hint: It's stupid, skirmish warfare is better).


But hey, "this is a game" and "IRL tactics don't apply", right? Or "Dakka iz da bestest ya git"? How about "You don't even know scrublet! UGNGHGNGUFNGFGFKGNHFKGNHF" or the ever present "I'M COMPETITIVE L33T PRO AN U RNT SO... NUH UH"?

EDIT: I also love that you jump straight to ad hominem attacks ("You're arrogant!") and provide precious little else to back your position that firepower is the only key variable in the outcome of a battle.

I Can really back this up 100%

In the past before we had clan mechs, yes you could mount firepower with still having a average speed. but lately cause of Clan set High speeds for Heavy and Medium mechs (this is what makes clans atm very effective in games) is the mobility of a medium mech for Heavy chassis that CAN carry Assault Mech array of weapons.

However Clan weapons are also a little hotter, as well as stronger and Further range, but longer duration that allow you to as IS spread the dmg over your mech more easy.

to Negate this as IS. Speed and mobility as well as the use of terrain allow you to just blitz up to them unseen and wait till in striking range that your fight will be swift and strong. "yo sup - ALPHA STRIKE !!!" and you totally will fight in your favor. because our weapons are of shorter duration and our AC's are full dmg in 1 strike.

IS simply now shine's in the 270M or closer brawling range, rather then taking up the fights with LRM or Any form of range combat. because right now IS just cant keep up on the superior dmg and range of clan tech. but you will always see that players will not like this aspect at all and will always die and wonder why they keep failing.

IS players, just Speed up your mechs to at least 75 to 80 KPH pref 80+ and you can play blitz striking suprise attacks with great effect, if your used to brawl, just dont be seen to early.

[Lily from animove]

I want to see statistics how the distribution of clanmech usage by their chassis (excluding the whole week after a specific chassis' release, because this is when people test them)

Zolaz, on 01 October 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

All Clan weapons are better than IS weapons. All Clan equipment is better than IS. All Clan engines are better than IS. Just because the Adder and the Kitfox are worse than other clan mechs doesnt mean they arent better than IS mechs.

lol, Firestarter, vs badder or Kit fox, I bet my mone yon the Firestarter if pilot skill in both machines is the same.

Edited by Lily from animove, 02 October 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Ultimatum X, on 01 October 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

Is it really so hard to come to terms that:

More Fire Power + Tactical Abilities

is better than

Less Fire Power + Tactical Abilities

Or are you really so arrogant to think that the rest of us are derps who "simply don't play it right"?

Alek Ituin, on 01 October 2014 - 09:02 PM, said:

Actually, if you would read it comes down to:

More Mobility + Moderate Firepower

Is better than

Less Mobility + Loadz a Dakka


Basically all of the greatest tacticians mirror this sentiment, my arrogance is not a factor in my critique of your playstyle. It's Rommel, Sun Tzu, Yi Soon Shin, basically every skirmisher in the American Revolution, the Vietcong, the IJA forces in WWII... You know, all the leaders of numerically inferior forces (or numerically inferior forces) who could demolish (or cause serious damage to) opponents with a 2:1 or even 3:1 advantage using DUNDUNDUN - Mobility.

Dakka aint shiznit if you can't shoot the git that's shootin you. There's a reason we don't just stand in lines and shoot each other in turns anymore (Hint: It's stupid, skirmish warfare is better).


But hey, "this is a game" and "IRL tactics don't apply", right? Or "Dakka iz da bestest ya git"? How about "You don't even know scrublet! UGNGHGNGUFNGFGFKGNHFKGNHF" or the ever present "I'M COMPETITIVE L33T PRO AN U RNT SO... NUH UH"?

EDIT: I also love that you jump straight to ad hominem attacks ("You're arrogant!") and provide precious little else to back your position that firepower is the only key variable in the outcome of a battle.

Both of you are right, The best team blends both of these philosophies, and can counter both. However the best of the best don't make/take the discussion personally.