13 replies to this topic

[Blakkstar]

Ok, I'm breaking one of my personal rules in going to the forums here, but it's tough without a Dragon trial mech available and the Orion currently out of rotation. Just looking for some opinions from existing owners.

I'm looking at picking up one of the mastery packs, and am comparing these two. The Hero is the primary factor, as it will be the c-bill grinder, and both the Flame and Protector look appealing. The Protector bundle seems like a nice bargain at 7470 MC, at 75 tons that's about 100 MC per ton (best out of any heavy bundle), while the Dragon is 109.

Both can mount AC20s, which I like. The Dragon fits my playstyle better, since I like faster brawlers. I know the Orion has some nice brawling builds too though, but the "pocket Atlas" description makes me hesitate a little as I'm not an assault guy. Both also have some flexible XL builds, but they lose the torso AC20 option because of crits.

Any thoughts?

[Redshift2k5]

I'd wait for the IS quirk pass before buying either chassis, and I say that as an Orion owner. Neither is not rated very high and both should receive some fun quirks, and some of those quirks may suit your needs

I have 3 Orions (Protector included) and they haven't really felt competitive at all since last June. all of my Orions are overdue for fresh builds I think, given the new game environment. My poor Orion-P, my only hero mech, hardly sees any play anymore.

[Metus regem]

The Dragon will make you a pilot, rather than a Gunner. It plays more like a really large Jenner, more hit and run than anything else. The Orion is more of a Gunner than pilot, since it works more like an Atlas.

[Hammerhai]

I have both and would not easily recommend either. But I have seen people rock the dragon in ways that are amazing. Pre Clan.

Problem is you are going to get cored with all the CT hits on it. That huge nose. I have mastered both, but for an indifferent mech warrior neither the dragon nor the orion was easy at all. All of my experience is pre clan, when the speed of the dragon still was exceptional and a selling point.

The Quickdraw is supposed to be more competitive and has similar performance to the dragon, and I still see some. However the Ivy 4 seems awful. At least the Flame in its day was ok-ish.

[DAYLEET]

Orion. More staying power, more fire power, though you wont be ignored in an Orion and you dont have the speed of a dragon either.

I did basic/elite on my On1-K yesterday, my fourth Orion, it sucked as long as i used a lousy loadout realy wanted to use. As soon as i said fk it and went gauss/2erll/2ml the damage and kills were where they are supposed to be.

[Koniving]

Of the two, I like them both. Orions are easier to get onto the field and may have more longevity for the typical player. The Dragons are really good 'trainer' mechs, especially since their best advantages are their mostly arm-oriented weaponry.

Of the Orions the K is the hottest.

Trial Dragon.

Spoiler

Some of my Dragon rigs.

I don't have many Orion videos out there to be honest.
Orion K.

Protectors.

Spoiler

Protector. (I made a mini Atlas out of mine; standard 280 to 300 engine, twin AC/5s, twin ML, twin Streaks).

Another Protector, same build.

I'd wait for the quirks, though, before making a final decision.

[Tahribator]

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The Dragon fits my playstyle better, since I like faster brawlers.

The Dragon is far from a brawler, it's more a harasser/skirmisher. It uses its speed to quickly reposition or dive into brawls and get out with a kill. If balls to the walls brawling is your thing, the Orion is much much better at that. If fast brawlers are your thing, XL Victors are what you seek.

I recently wrote an article containing mini-reviews of my heroes. Since you're interested in heroes only, I'll copy paste the Flame and the Protector for you:

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Flame

The Dragon which trades its torso energy hardpoints for a ballistic. It's regarded as the "best" Dragon which I don't agree. The ballistic hardpoint is ridiculously high and perfectly aligned with its cockpit(you expose even less than a hull-down Shadowhawk), so you can pull off awesome hull-down shots and get really good trades. It has 4xE(2 each) in its arms which is a pretty desirable layout. It gets a 5% ballistic cooldown, and together with a cooldown module you can reach ridiculous fire rates(especially the Gauss). It's not all roses and flowers though, those arms get shot off very easily so expect to lose 4xE hardpoints pretty fast. The torso B is also harder to aim when you're on the move and you have to move because the Dragon loves to speed tank. If you want to be a real skirmisher, I think the 1C with its arm cannon is a better choice. If you want the best Gauss harasser in this game though, Flame wins hands-down.

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Protector


The "best of" Orion that can do many things. It gets dual ballistics from the V, dual torso missiles from the K and on top of that, it gets a unique high-mounted torso E. This means this is the only Orion that doesn't suffer from the "long-slung hardpoints" syndrome. It can snipe with PPC+AC combos, it can brawl with AC20+LPL+SRM combos, it can boat LRMs(30 tubes), it can be a mid-range DPS monster(twin UACs). It's the Orion that offers the most build flexibility and can actually do well with them. Suffers from typical Orion syndromes which include an absolute XL unfriendliness and the resulting sluggishness because of its fragile sides.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Flame with 360 XL + endo + ferro + gauss/4ml is really awesome.

On a side note,it has SHS and lumpy STD-engine as stock,so atleast 2 million c-bills are needed to get the popular STD300/AC20 + 4 medium lasers build running.

[Blakkstar]

Thanks, all. Some really good breakdowns of the pros and cons of both. Didn't really make the choice any easier so far, but I have a lot more info!

[Mad Ox]

Its tough choice both are fun I have them each.

Dragon with its big CT gets alot of negative flak but done right it is alot of fun at 60 tons its more Medium then heavy for sure. Joining a group of fast movers, support team or cover flanks, or raid behind lines and it fits in well. I played trial version and got hooked which is odd since I hated the mech in Battletech LOL but grew to love it in MWO first mech I hit mastery with. Hit and run is its specialty you stop your jsut asking for a alpha to center torso.

Orion per the Battletech game basically a mini atlas with a bit more speed. Its a great mix of tonnage armor firepower and mobility.

Either way hold off until on sale, PGI has them enough. Silly to pay full price for an electronic item that costs them nothing really to sell. Been buying the Hero mechs as they go on sale for 50% a pop at that price with boosted credits works worth it to me. and get a nice mix of mechs to play with.

[Tim East]

The Orion is probably "better" according to the meta and all that, but I have such a soft spot for the Dragon that I have been considering getting that mastery bundle when my finances permit me to get a few thousand more MC.

[Bront]

Which mechs do you pilot now and which do you like the best?

By most accounts, the Dragon has CT issues, while the Orion is a little more durrable, but is XL unfriendly. When the Orion is called the Little Atlas, it's because it can mount similar loadouts (but go much faster), and that's not a bad thing. The other Orions can offer many different play styles One makes an awesome SRM or LRM boat for example.

[Wine O]

I own and have mastered nearly every mech in the game. Having spent many hours on both those classes, I feel qualified to offer a little advice:

1) No matter what, wait a few days until new quirk system is unveiled. I highly doubt "quirks" are going to fix or balance anything, but we might as well wait and see but to be honest, the gap between Dragons and Orions is far to large for any "quirk" to fix.

2) Orions are in every way the superior mech. A Dragon might run a little faster which is handy because you will be retreating a lot. There was a time when the Champ Dragon wasn't half bad but you can do the same thing with an Orion.

3) Orions is fine with standard or XL. I own them all and have Xl's in all but 1.

4) Build versatility is simply greater with the Orion. They have tons of hard points, Dragons don't.

5) Dragons have 2 terrible Hero mechs, Orion have 1 really good one.

[Elizander]

One thing that you might not like about the dragon is that the arms are angled far out to the side to avoid clipping with the legs. This makes it so that your initial angle for firing arm weapons is very wide. I've had difficulty getting shots through tight places like caves due to this, but it can go pretty fast with just a 300XL.

I don't own any Orions so I can't really say anything about it other than it looks like a mini-Atlas.

Why don't you take a look at the Cataphracts? They're probably the best bundle out of the bunch.