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Shd Vs Grf Vs Vnd


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#1 5LeafClover

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 02:14 AM

I'm window shopping for a new IS mech and have settled on a short list of 3: Shadowhawk, Griffin and Vindicator.

All look like they fit the role of Jump Jet Super Hero, which my mech collection lacks. I'm also looking forward to CW, so after a useful new option for my drop deck.

My current impressions on these 3 are:

SHD - Good hard points, shoulder mounted AC covers many sins, maximises 55T, but looks boring and is very common.

GRF - Good and less common looks, still maximises 55T. PGI have rated some as Tier 2, same as SHD, so I guess it must perform. But at face value the hard points look awful. Of the non-heroes, only the 3M appears to have ok hardpoints. I can imagine myself running round with no weapons rather a lot.

VND - Good hard points, best looking of the three and best jump capability. I'm not the guy that needs the most OP stuff to have fun, but I imagine I may annoy others if i "waste" a drop slot in CW with a 45T mech.

My mechbay currently consists of 3x the following (no heroes) and I'm after something different:
Spider
Cicada
Centurion
Catapult
Cataphract
Orion
Atlas

I'd appreciate your advice/experience...

Edited by 5LeafClover, 14 October 2014 - 02:15 AM.


#2 theta123

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 02:36 AM

If you like an overall, jack of all trade mech, the shadowhawk and Vindicator are both good choises.

The shadowhawk has every possible hardpoint out there, but small missile bays (10 is maximum)
The griffin is an excellent energy/missile platform, as it has very large missile bays, but lacks any ballistic slots.
The vindicator has every hardpoint in its variants, and large missile bays, but has 10 tonnes less to spend! And it requires a special playstyle if you are not used to medium mechs

The griffin has another advantage of having insane torso twist capability, you can retreat full speed, yet turn your torso around and swing your arm to fire at pursuiing enemies with your Front armour
The griffin has the smallest CT but larger ST then the shadowhawk. So some consideration should be taken when going XL engine (I use a XL engine for GRF-1N and 3M, my S model is my brawler)

#3 Soulscour

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 02:58 AM

Shadowhawk is common because they are the best medium mech. Not only are they the best but they let you do anything you want with them. They are known also for having a very small cockpit window. They have great surviveability and can use xl engines very well. The griffin is also pretty good but not as good in my experience. All the variants are very similar and no ballistic options. Also it is true that you will often get your weapons blown off. I have not played the vindicator. I hear its not good.

Edited by Soulscour, 14 October 2014 - 02:59 AM.


#4 Spheroid

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 07:56 AM

Don't overlook the Wolverines. They can jump better than Shadow Hawks and have better torso pitch than the Griffins. Important factors in SRM jump brawling.

#5 Macksheen

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 08:29 AM

The PGI ratings put a greater weight on LRM mechs. The GRF-3M - which is my favorite - I run as a streak boat, but like many others I run the other two as LRM skirmishers.

The SHD is the most efficient choice.

I love the movement and cockpit on the GRF though. I don't have a Sparky yet, but surely will.

The Wolverine, my table top favorite, is sadly not high on my list.

No ability to rate w/ Vindicators at this point (don't have them).

#6 Omaximus Tseng

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 08:46 AM

The SHD is the viable choice here. Its a great platform for almost anything.

#7 Kodyn

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 08:49 AM

As a SHD guy I really love them for their versatility, nice hardpoint layouts, speed, toughness, and the sheer variety of options for builds. I also happen to like the way they look.

I would definitely also say Wolverines are a good alternative, though not from personal piloting experience. Several members of my unit however pilot them, and I've seen them do some pretty crazy stuff. They seem slightly more durable than the other IS mediums out there, but seem to have some odd hardpoints, perhaps not as convenient as the SHD. i definitely wouldn't overlook these, but my first vote still goes to SHD.

Edited by Kodyn, 14 October 2014 - 08:49 AM.


#8 Ultimax

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 09:24 AM

The Vindicator has no business even being in this comparison.


If you want a brand new mech to run, I suggest Shadowhawks.

The mech is well designed, there are enough variants to have 3 fully kitted out and unique builds in your garage and it is still the best IS medium mech overall.


Some specific Griffins have some advantages over Shadowhawks but the entire series is a bit more specialized.


Spend some time on smurfy's and check out the hardpoints of both and then decide.

#9 InspectorG

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 09:28 AM

http://www.mercenary...php?topic=197.0

Comp views on utility for team drops/role and pug drops.

Vindicator is tier 3 in one ranking.

Shad and Griffin are 1/2 in several rankings. Basically: Shad for long range, Grif for srm brawling.

#10 Cion

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 10:30 AM

View Post5LeafClover, on 14 October 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

I'm window shopping for a new IS mech and have settled on a short list of 3: Shadowhawk, Griffin and Vindicator.

All look like they fit the role of Jump Jet Super Hero, which my mech collection lacks. I'm also looking forward to CW, so after a useful new option for my drop deck.

My current impressions on these 3 are:

SHD - Good hard points, shoulder mounted AC covers many sins, maximises 55T, but looks boring and is very common.

GRF - Good and less common looks, still maximises 55T. PGI have rated some as Tier 2, same as SHD, so I guess it must perform. But at face value the hard points look awful. Of the non-heroes, only the 3M appears to have ok hardpoints. I can imagine myself running round with no weapons rather a lot.

VND - Good hard points, best looking of the three and best jump capability. I'm not the guy that needs the most OP stuff to have fun, but I imagine I may annoy others if i "waste" a drop slot in CW with a 45T mech.

My mechbay currently consists of 3x the following (no heroes) and I'm after something different:
Spider
Cicada
Centurion
Catapult
Cataphract
Orion
Atlas

I'd appreciate your advice/experience...


Based on YOUR use of words and what you told us I think you'll be happier with the Vindicator.

Your words tell me that you like how a mech looks, and don't like "meta" (what "everyone" uses). The Vindicator has the looks, and is not meta. Shadowhawk has the looks and the meta. The Griffin has the looks, is not meta, but plays *similar* to many Centurion builds (aim, unload weapons, twist /run, repeat). Also most weapons are on one side, like your Cent arm. You have centurions. So Vindicator wins for you.

Your only concern was that people would complain about you bringing a Vindicator. In short I say you should give a ___ about what people say. People say different things when you become good in your mech and you're most likely to become good in a mech you ENJOY playing.

Good luck!

#11 DivineEvil

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 10:31 AM

Griffin is a premier brawler and striker. Even on XL it is very durable, thanks to it magnificient shield arms and extreme torso yaw bandwidth. The trick is that you should run it on XL due to hardpoints, and succeed by maneuverability and sheer firepower of SRMs. It also can work with NARC/LRM combo pretty well. It's also notable for an extremely open cockpit, which allows great awareness in all situations.

Vindicator is a more durable, but also more difficult to master, version of Blackjack. While latter is more of a jump-sniper, Vindicator is a mobile and versatile fire-support and flanking mech for long/medium ranges. It has arms to shield damage and also sports flexible torso yaw amplitude and arms with wide angle of movement. I recommend running them on XLs since having less weapons and/or maneuverability does not pay off. Piloting Vindicators properly means hitting hard and taking few hits in return using JJs and maximum speed.

Shadow Hawk is something in-between those two. Despite being the same weight as Griffin, Shadow Hawk is a bit less favorable for brawling due to much lower torso yaw freedom and also more open side torsos with arms providing respectable cover, but not preventing enemies from hitting ballistic barrels and avoiding shielding. Due to that, SH is better on STD engines, and preferable in fire-support role for all ranges further than 250 meters. Same comes from their awfully limited FoV.

Edited by DivineEvil, 14 October 2014 - 10:34 AM.


#12 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 11:11 AM

here are my opinions based on your shortlist, bear in mind I prefer fast maneuverable Mechs

Shadow hawk is the most versatile of your requested chassis, with options to set up for almost any role but has very limited torso twist compared to most of the other mediums

Griffin is the most maneuverable and makes a great SRM Brawler and my second favorite Medium (behind the Cicada

I have limited experience with the Vindicator (test server only) and the experiences I had convinced me not too get it anytime soon (it felt way too slow and sluggish for me)

#13 Colonel Clunge

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 11:14 AM

Don't disagree with anything said here except to point out that the vis in the Shad is actually ok when you are in zoom mode. Not great for CQB stuff but fine for long rate sniping.

#14 LordMelvin

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 01:23 PM

I love my SHD-5M. AC10 and two ERLL. I think it's safe to say that I learned how to play MWO in that mech, even if I didn't start with it. That said, you do tend to get focused a bit because of the mech's popularity.

Vindicators are tough little nuggets if you twist properly. I was unfortunate enough to get jumped by a Vindi in a wounded Mad Cat and he was able to wear me down enough to finish me off. If you can stay away from the Meta Whales long enough to get into range you'll usually put out a fair amount of damage.

The cool thing about playing "non-meta" chassis is people will usually ignore you in favor of killing the higher profile "meta" targets.

#15 5LeafClover

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 01:28 PM

Thanks folks! I must confess I'm still torn.

I've played the SHD trial mech and got good results, seemed fairly easy to get on with. It's a pity that VND and GRF don't have trial versions at the moment.

Appreciate the suggestion of Wolverines too, but pretty sure they're not for me. The shadow hawk looks plain and bit boxy, but the wolverine is downright ugly IMO (and unfortunately not in a scary-ugly way such as Awesomes and Jagers which are so ugly they look good).

Edited by 5LeafClover, 14 October 2014 - 01:29 PM.


#16 TygerLily

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 01:28 PM

I'd go Shadow Hawk, Griffin, Vindicator. But I enjoyed them all!

#17 mad kat

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 05:56 AM

View PostSpheroid, on 14 October 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

Don't overlook the Wolverines. They can jump better than Shadow Hawks and have better torso pitch than the Griffins. Important factors in SRM jump brawling.


As he said they also have quite a spread of harpoints so tend not to be as one side biased as the griffin's at least. They seem to be quite durable too with the squat profile. Not a lanky bugger like the griffin or shadowhawk.

#18 John80sk

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Posted 16 October 2014 - 10:23 PM

Griffin is the best SRM brawler (specifically the 3M).

Shadowhawk is better at everything else, and is a close second as a brawler in the medium mech category.

#19 5LeafClover

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 07:27 AM

Well this weekend's challenge and follow up sale changes things :-)

Purse strings are shut for now.

Roll on 21st for Yen-lo Two and Shadowhawk Oooh!

#20 IllCaesar

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Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:48 AM

Just want to give everyone a heads up. This weekend's challenge will decrease the cost of the Shadowhawks.

https://mwomercs.com/tournaments

Among them, the 5M has an XL275 engine. If it goes to 50% off, that will essentially be a regular price Shadowhawk with a free XL engine. Keeping with the assumption that the discount reaches 50% off (very possible), the other Shadowhawks will cost about 2.2 million C-Bills, and Mechbays will also see a discount as well, so this weekend is a great opportunity to get some Shadowhawks. Even though I own three already might get the remaining Shawks myself.





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