49 replies to this topic

[990Dreams]

Look, my Dire Whale can get away easily and escape most damage. And, if you get headshot(ed), there is something wrong. No PUG team can carry enough to do that. And, even in a 12 man when at least one shell hits you in the head and you get hit by all 12 strikes, it might do you some damage but I am fairly sure it wouldn't kill you. And what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

Bad pun aside, there is not a big problem here. You don't get super damaged and at least there isn't dual arty/air strikes anymore.

[BloodspatterGaming]

Ryokens leap, on 14 October 2014 - 11:36 AM, said:

The deployment needs more of a skill mechanic added to it. Either a smoke pot should be dropped "drive by style" and /or tied into TAG ie: must hold TAG on target until stike hits.

This.

[Burktross]

Chuddox, on 16 October 2014 - 02:47 AM, said:

This.

Seconded!

[Stepping Razor]

i was one of the ones way back that voted for Artillery/Airstrike. all though my first initial thoguht was it was going to be team based not player based.

i cant seem to drop with out Artillery/Airstrike, Uav/Coolshot, which is some what ruff and kind of annoying to have the pressure/worry of what would happen if i did not drop with those modules, You have to have em.

i currently voted for extended cooldown. i did not however vote for arti/air to be seperate from mech modules.

i agree with only being able to choose one arti or air i agreed with this when i knew it took a mech module slot, but now that it takes its own slot everyone drops arti or air. There is no diversification on the battlefield when it comes to modules anymore, one of the few things that made your mech a tad bit different than others like i remeber running seismic/Traget info, when other people would run consumeables, i honestly believed at the time that my specific combo allowed me to do more than if i were to have an artillery ( just becasue of my play style).

To me Arti,Air should not be a player based module, it should be a team based module, my first initial thought was the "commander" would have options to drop an Arti. 12 individuals with Arti=Craziness.

If they cut it down to 1 Arti 1 Air per lance, taht would make more sense. so there would be 6 on each team. thye might be able to pump the damage back up to where it use to be or such. Arti/air Should be tactical, and not abused like it is.

just my thoughts hope it sparks yours. yeah its some what of sparse random thoughts i just had to get em out.

Edited by Stepping Razor, 23 October 2014 - 04:41 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Stepping Razor, on 19 October 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

i was one of the ones way back that voted for Artillery/Airstrike. all though my first initial thoguht was it was going to be team based not player based. i cant seem to drop with out Artillery/Airstrike, Uav/Coolshot, which is some what ruff and kind of annoying to have the pressure/worry of what would happen if i did not drop with those modules, You have to have em. i currently voted for extended cooldown. i did not however vote for arti/air to be seperate from mech modules that was a bad idea i agree with only being able to choose one arti or air i agreed with this when i knew it took a mech module slot, but now that it takes its own slot everyone drops arti or air. There is no diversification on the battlefield when it comes to modules anymore, one of the few things that made your mech a tad bit different than others.

To me Arti,Air should not be a player based module, it should be a team based module, my first initial thought was the "commander" would have options to drop an Arti. 12 individuals with Arti=Craziness.

If they cut it down to 1 Arti 1 Air per lance, taht would make more sense. so their would be 6 on each team. thye might be able to pump the damage back up to where it use to be or such. Arti/air Should be tactical, and not abused like it is.

just my thoughts hope it sparks yours. yeah its some what of sparse random thoughts i just had to get em out.

So many typos make it look like your train of thought is a runaway, or worse, a wreck. Could you proofread next time as a courtesy to the rest of us? Many thanks!

...And like I said in previous posts, strikes do not need additional nerfs. Players just need to learn how to fight around them. To be frank, I don't feel a compulsory need to equip them, and frequently take the more powerful (in my opinion) UAV module over the strike modules.

It is also worth noting that Air Strikes are basically useless in their current state. The jet gives them away far to easily making them a waste of 40,000 C-bills. Arties are much superior.

[TuntematonSika]

I do not see how arty is out of control. I don't know about you but it's already been balanced and dealt with, we don't need this type of pole.

[Stepping Razor]

fixed my post nightmare i apologize for giving you a headache

[Nightmare1]

Stepping Razor, on 23 October 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

fixed my post nightmare i apologize for giving you a headache

*Chuckle*

+1

[Duncan Longwood]

I spectated Nightmare1 the other night... His piloting was better than alright. it's not a bad offer to learn movement from someone who knows their shizz. Good pilot this one is. Making the adder look like a good mech. Should have seen the three players he wrecked.

[Nightmare1]

Duncan Longwood, on 23 October 2014 - 05:44 PM, said:

I spectated Nightmare1 the other night... His piloting was better than alright. it's not a bad offer to learn movement from someone who knows their shizz. Good pilot this one is. Making the adder look like a good mech. Should have seen the three players he wrecked.

Wow, thank you! That's high praise!

Add me in-game and let's run a few this weekend?

[ImperialKnight]

I would go as far as to say, limit the number of strikes for each team to 3. Once a team hits the cap, no one else can "fire" the strike even if they have them equipped

[Maver0ick]

TyGeR STD, on 14 October 2014 - 03:49 PM, said:

remove the consumable slot on mechs, let all consumables either go into weapon or mech modules. This way someone has an option of taking something other the the consumables. The way it is currently setup everyone will have some type of consumable, UAV, coolshot, or Air/Arty. Removing the dedicated consumable slot will mean some players will not have a consumable at all.

I have to admit I started carrying artillery + air strike (then artillery + UAV when strikes were limited to 1) when they separated general module slots to mech/consumables. Before that, I loaded the module slots with mech modules only.

[Darth Futuza]

Nightmare1, on 19 October 2014 - 01:23 PM, said:

It is also worth noting that Air Strikes are basically useless in their current state. The jet gives them away far to easily making them a waste of 40,000 C-bills. Arties are much superior.

Airstrikes are useful if you're devious (for example, drop on yourself in water and smoke is hidden or aim it at a uav and smoke is hidden), but yeah Arties are in general greatly superior.

[Rogue Jedi]

Artillery is hard to use successfully anyway, the warning is sufficient to get out of the way assuming you are not standing still in a slow Mech, it needs to be placed exceptional well to cause much damage, and its only real use seems to be area denial UNLESS you can place the strike directly behind a large group and no-one notices the smoke.

in my experience a good UAV, if no-one notices it, is far more devastating.

[mad kat]

See red smoke. Run away.
Don't see red smoke. Hope you have some armour.
If the worst happens hope you haven't skimped on head armour.

Tbh artillery shouldn't really have smoke air strike should but then even that should be tied in with a tag laser. Technically speaking arty has no need for any visual indicator. Bar a spotter.

Art/air strike is annoying but thats all it is. It's not powerful enough to be a real problems unless your seriously lacking in either armour or situational awareness. You better hope they dont introduce the long tom!

Edited by mad kat, 23 October 2014 - 10:37 PM.

[The Basilisk]

For a consumable that can cost more c-bills than I may earn in a match AND that has to be pimped with either mc or lots of GXP to be of any use, Arty and airstrike are quite lackluster.
If one where able to put something else in those slots I would.
So depending on chassis I carry my improved arty and either a cool pod or a UV depending on build.
Also I just have to say it requires a lot of....skill to be cought in an arty strike. Everything but Dire or DDC should be able to stroll out of range without even getting hasty.
And if you got artyed from behind .... well you deserv it twice for choosing such a bad spot for hanging around.

Edited by The Basilisk, 24 October 2014 - 12:10 AM.

[Masterrix]

what's the problem with arty ? ppls still whining ?

I get killed by arty in maybe every 30th match !
is this too much ?
u want to make arty completely useless because u cant handle with red smoke and some shakes ?

arty is fine as it is. its "not easy" to aim, red smoke are warning all, damage already reduced, and consumables reduced to 1

there is no "out of control" arty ingame, there are only "out of control" whiners

.

Edited by Masterrix, 24 October 2014 - 01:04 AM.

[MechWarrior319348]

I voted for more arty because I like it when people get angry

[Telmasa]

Burktross, on 14 October 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Arty is annoying, yes, but in no way OP or warranting much of a change.

Bull CRAP.

When a single mech can run up, click ONE TIME, and immediately do (within 5 seconds, which is next to nothing in mechwarrior combat) a bare minimum of 150+ damage (and often more when dropped on a group of mechs together) to a single concentrated area (which is entirely unlike anything implemented in the tabletop game), it is the very definition of "paytowin" and "overpowered".


There's literally NO counter to it. There's NOTHING any player can do on the receiving end. The knowledge that it costs 40,000 cbills per strike is no consolation at all when attempting to carry a team in an Atlas, having a Jenner pop up for 2 seconds, drop an arty strike, and core you through your back with it with absolute minimum effort.

And the effect it has on light mechs standing still, instantaneously legging them, is absurd. Attempting to support with a Spider or Kitfox, not being able to see the smoke dropped behind you, and suddenly losing a leg - or dying - because somebody plopped an arty the moment they got hit by you, is broken gameplay.


There is so much wrong with arty:

1. Ridiculously low "spread" of impacts
2. Completely negligible period of time between smoke "pop" and arrival of explosions
3. Nothing to prevent a team from taking 12 artillery/air strikes, deathballing into the enemy, and dropping them nonstop for instant success
4. No kind of counteraction available whatsoever - every thing else in the game has some kind of drawback, there is NONE for artillery/airstrikes
5. Despite having no drawback, it's also the highest alpha available of any weapon, any mech can mount it, there's no range limit, and did I mention that 5 seconds barely gives you time to blink before it's hitting you?

Edited by Telmasa, 30 October 2014 - 04:54 PM.

[Nightmare1]

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Bull CRAP.

Try being a bit more civil in the forums please as a courtesy to others.

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

When a single mech can run up, click ONE TIME, and immediately do (within 5 seconds, which is next to nothing in mechwarrior combat) a bare minimum of 150+ damage (and often more when dropped on a group of mechs together) to a single concentrated area (which is entirely unlike anything implemented in the tabletop game), it is the very definition of "paytowin" and "overpowered".

That 150 figure is wrong. After the recent nerfs, arties deal 35 damage per shot. If you invest the GXP to upgrade your arty to an Improved Arty, then the most damage it can deal is 135. Furthermore, that 135 is spread across ten shells that, since the recent nerf, have a rather small area effect per shell. I've emerged from some arties without taking any damage at all, and I have also instigated arties that failed to score hits despite the target Mechs remaining in the strike zone for the entire duration of the strike.

Also, your five second figure is wrong. After upgrading your strikes with GXP, the flight time is 4 seconds. You might want to do your homework before making an emotional post like this.

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

There's literally NO counter to it. There's NOTHING any player can do on the receiving end. The knowledge that it costs 40,000 cbills per strike is no consolation at all when attempting to carry a team in an Atlas, having a Jenner pop up for 2 seconds, drop an arty strike, and core you through your back with it with absolute minimum effort.

The counter is situational awareness. I've successfully escaped strike zones with BattleMasters and Daishis, so I know, for a fact, that Mechs moving less than 50 kph can leave the strike zone before impact if their pilots are cognizant of their surroundings. Once the smoke pops, you should know of it if you are keeping a good eye on what's around you. Granted, even the best pilots do get hit from time to time, but situational awareness will cut down on this drastically. I only get hit with strikes (arty and air) about once every ten matches or so.

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

And the effect it has on light mechs standing still, instantaneously legging them, is absurd. Attempting to support with a Spider or Kitfox, not being able to see the smoke dropped behind you, and suddenly losing a leg - or dying - because somebody plopped an arty the moment they got hit by you, is broken gameplay.

If you stand still in a Light Mech, you're pretty much begging to die. No pilot worth his salt will stop moving while in a Light Mech. I run Locusts, an Ember, Commandos, Kit Foxes, and Adders to great effect. My basic rule is never stop moving. As a result, I almost never get hit with strikes unless I'm stupid and run straight into one. I also don't get legged by snipers because I don't present them with a target. If you think strikes are OP because they cripple Light Mechs, then the solution is for you to learn to start moving and firing at the same time, and not to nerf a feature of the game for your own convenience.

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

There is so much wrong with arty:

1. Ridiculously low "spread" of impacts
2. Completely negligible period of time between smoke "pop" and arrival of explosions
3. Nothing to prevent a team from taking 12 artillery/air strikes, deathballing into the enemy, and dropping them nonstop for instant success
4. No kind of counteraction available whatsoever - every thing else in the game has some kind of drawback, there is NONE for artillery/airstrikes
5. Despite having no drawback, it's also the highest alpha available of any weapon, any mech can mount it, there's no range limit, and did I mention that 5 seconds barely gives you time to blink before it's hitting you?

1. Since the nerf, the shots have been spread considerably. On one hand it is nice because it has a larger area of effect. On the other, it is not so nice because it is now possible for strikes to miss multiple Mechs within a target area if their pilots are spaced appropriately.

2. Time period is not negligible. Four seconds (if upgraded to Improved) is plenty of time to leave the strike zone, even for Assaults.

3. While this is true, there is some ongoing discussion about potentially limiting strikes to the Drop and Lance commanders for a total of four per team. We'll see what happens with this.

4. Counteraction is awareness and movement. If you stand still and wear blinders, then expect to get hit. If you move around and are constantly checking your surroundings, then you most likely will not get hit. It's just that simple.

5. An Alpha is when a BattleMech triggers off all of its weapon systems. Strike shells do not have an "Alpha" rating; they have a damage rating. What you are attempting to convey, is that each individual shell has a higher damage rating than any other weapon in the game. While this may be true, in order for all fifty points of damage to score against you, the damage must make a direct hit on your Mech. I've been in strikes where I registered three hits on my Hunchback and emerged with over 90% of my armor because I was not close enough to the center of each explosion to receive the full damage amounts.

As for 5 seconds, human response time is about a half-second for average people, and about a third-second for reactive/above average people. Let's assume you're average. That means you have 3-1/2 seconds (because flight times are 4 seconds and not 5 if strikes are Improved) to exit the zone from the time smoke is popped. I've successfully backed Daishis out of strike zones without receiving damage. It can be done. You just have to be aware of what's going on around you.

...As for strikes landing before you have time to blink (i.e. - longer than four seconds for you to successfully blink), well, if this condition persists, you may want to see an optometrist.

Telmasa, on 30 October 2014 - 04:24 PM, said:

Screw arty, screw the way it gets spammed in pugs, and screw any absurd notions that it's not a negative influence on the game.

My my, aren't we friendly tonight!

To that, all I can say is QQ harder and good riddance!