Jump to content

This New Is Mech Re-Enforcement Pack


66 replies to this topic

#1 Hillslam

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,198 posts
  • LocationWestern Hemisphere

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:30 PM

Posted Image

#2 Tkhaw

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Moderate Giver
  • Moderate Giver
  • 264 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:32 PM

lol, good one!

#3 Ted Wayz

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 2,913 posts
  • LocationTea with Romano

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:38 PM

Time to call the CC company and tell them not to reject a transaction...

#4 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:50 PM

It will be interesting to see if the Panther is limited to, I think, a 200 Engine.

Concept art for the Enforcer and Grasshopper looks great.


The Zeus looks like it's going to suffer from Awesome sized hitboxes.

#5 Drop_FF

    Member

  • PipPip
  • The Privateer
  • The Privateer
  • 35 posts
  • LocationMadison, GA

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:53 PM

I'm glad the Zeus made it in, but it looks like an MWO Battlemaster without high mounted hardpoints :P

#6 Koniving

    Welcoming Committee

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Guide
  • The Guide
  • 23,384 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 04:57 PM

*Scratches head.* Someone beat me over the head with a large stick for thinking, but... Somehow I fail to see why this couldn't have been part of the announcement thread about the same thing.

#7 Flyby215

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Devoted
  • The Devoted
  • 888 posts
  • LocationThunder Bay

Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:07 PM

I need some MC to buy a couple Hero mechs in light of the quirk pass, now I need even more money for the IS reinforcement pack? Curse you PGI for the double-whammy!

Really want the Panther, really want the Zeus! Not so sure about the two middles ones though...

#8 Lynx7725

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,710 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 06:59 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

It will be interesting to see if the Panther is limited to, I think, a 200 Engine.

I personally think I'll die a LOT in a Panther. I suck at Lights. And the Panther, if limited (or even if not), is going to be hard to survive in.

Of course I'm still going to get it. The Coordinator doesn't expect me to survive it, he just expect me to try.

#9 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:05 PM

View PostLynx7725, on 20 October 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

[/size]
I personally think I'll die a LOT in a Panther. I suck at Lights. And the Panther, if limited (or even if not), is going to be hard to survive in.

Of course I'm still going to get it. The Coordinator doesn't expect me to survive it, he just expect me to try.



You can rest easy, they are going to break the Engine rule for the Panther.


Posted Image



I'm conflicted, because on one hand I agree this is the right thing to do - the Panther will need a larger engine to have any hope of being decent.


On the other, I think it's pretty lopsided and arbitrary to saddle Clan light mechs with bad engine sizes, and poor hardpoint options. They don't even benefit from Clan XL really, as people just leg them as they are slow, and relatively large (the Kit Fox is almost 2x the size of a Spider).


I'm not sure why the Devs are OK with leaving Clan lights as an all around poor option.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 20 October 2014 - 07:06 PM.


#10 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:19 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

...

On the other, I think it's pretty lopsided and arbitrary to saddle Clan light mechs with bad engine sizes, and poor hardpoint options. They don't even benefit from Clan XL really, as people just leg them as they are slow, and relatively large (the Kit Fox is almost 2x the size of a Spider).


I'm not sure why the Devs are OK with leaving Clan lights as an all around poor option.

Not to derail too far into the Clam lights, but the reason for their sorry state compared to the Panther is simply the construction rules enforcement. FASA decided to make the Cute Fox and Badder have 6/9 movement points, so it carried over to MWO. They just so happen to get hit fairly hard by the Omni engine restrictions, given their sub-par base chassis...

If we modified their engines at all, it would essentially make people start asking about why they can't modify the engine on their other Clam mechs like Dire Whales and Mad Cats. So, the restrictions are in a bit of an "all or nothing" kind of situation. Of course, the admitted downside of this is that the mechs who lost the robot design lottery end up getting shafted...

Ultimately, I think the best solution is to simply quirk them up until they seem to do their job adequately. The Badder can probably use more armor, given that its stock armor layout was tougher than the majority of IS lights at the time and even some mediums. Both the Fox and Badder could use a bit more heat efficiency, and the Badder for sure could use shorter beam durations (I miss my 2 ERLL + 2 ERML loadout :(). Throw in some minor cooldown and other such quirks in there, maybe give the Fox some missile or energy side torsos, and that should do the trick.

#11 Metus regem

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Sureshot
  • The Sureshot
  • 10,282 posts
  • LocationNAIS College of Military Science OCS courses

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:19 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:



You can rest easy, they are going to break the Engine rule for the Panther.


Posted Image



I'm conflicted, because on one hand I agree this is the right thing to do - the Panther will need a larger engine to have any hope of being decent.


On the other, I think it's pretty lopsided and arbitrary to saddle Clan light mechs with bad engine sizes, and poor hardpoint options. They don't even benefit from Clan XL really, as people just leg them as they are slow, and relatively large (the Kit Fox is almost 2x the size of a Spider).


I'm not sure why the Devs are OK with leaving Clan lights as an all around poor option.


It is part of the largely ignored advantage that the IS have over the clans... The power of choice.

They can chose to use an XL or standard engine.
They can chose to have Endo Steel or standard chassis.
They can chose to have SHS or DHS.
They cab chose to have FF or standard engines.
They can chose to use cooler PPC's or ERPPC's

And before you go about mentioning the range advantage of clan mechs, most maps do not allow for long range engagements, so it is a moot point.

Can you imagen the rage of the player base if the clans could change engine sizes? 400 XL Dire Wolves running around pushing 70kph would be a very scary thing...

#12 Nathan Foxbane

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,984 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:20 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:



You can rest easy, they are going to break the Engine rule for the Panther.


Posted Image



I'm conflicted, because on one hand I agree this is the right thing to do - the Panther will need a larger engine to have any hope of being decent.


On the other, I think it's pretty lopsided and arbitrary to saddle Clan light mechs with bad engine sizes, and poor hardpoint options. They don't even benefit from Clan XL really, as people just leg them as they are slow, and relatively large (the Kit Fox is almost 2x the size of a Spider).


I'm not sure why the Devs are OK with leaving Clan lights as an all around poor option.

I am betting it tops out at less than 120kph to keep it as a weapon heavy light instead of a speedster. I run my Kit Foxes without ECM and they do decently. Then again, most light players do not seem to like playing as thin skinned mediums and I cannot blame them.

#13 Lightfoot

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 6,610 posts
  • LocationOlympus Mons

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:24 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

The Zeus looks like it's going to suffer from Awesome sized hitboxes.


Yep, looks like a big fat bullseye. The Zeus has giant shoulder actuators, not giant side torsos like the concept art is showing.

#14 Lynx7725

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,710 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:24 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

You can rest easy, they are going to break the Engine rule for the Panther.



Uh huh. I'm not sure how far they can do that. 210 on a Panther translate to 6/9 on the TT, or 97.2 KPH. By light standards, that's actually quite slow. If they go to 280 that's 129.6 KPH, but that just makes it a Jenner variant. Overall, I expect the Panther to be slower, so the 'Warriors just have to be sneakier on the battlefield...

Wonder what variants though. Most are going to be E in the RA and M in the CT, which.. Well, what can I say? The Coordinator Expects.

I'm not ragging PGI on this, because it's just what in lore Panthers are. A main line light. In the Successor Wars period they were usable because the States didn't want to commit their heavy forces, so a lance of Panthers could get the job done. In full blown Clan Invasion, they are going to be outclassed badly -- and correctly outclassed badly.


View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:



They don't even benefit from Clan XL really, as people just leg them as they are slow, and relatively large (the Kit Fox is almost 2x the size of a Spider).

I'm not sure why the Devs are OK with leaving Clan lights as an all around poor option.


Uh that I believe is a problem with the Spider, not so much the Kit Fox. Damn Kit Foxes are good at hiding because they're so damn low anyway..




I personally think the Clan light issue is more tied into the whole Clan concept. Clan warfare on its own -- i.e., Clan vs. Clan -- is a structured affair with specific rules. In strict Clan vs. Clan, forces are well known and the whole clan tourman is pretty standardized; that reduces the need for "extreme" fast light builds that are needed in the IS to scout and counter unknown surprises. Prior to the Clan invasion, Clan warfare is pretty much Clan vs. Clan or Clan vs. Bandits, in the former the "meta" so to speak is pretty consistent, and in the latter the Clans have an overwhelming advantage, so they didn't need a light fast scouts.




Not to mention we're also getting the Clan scouts in the Wave II packs. The Adder never was intended to be a fast machine; it's a light with an attitude problem. The Kit wasn't really a fast machine IIRC, more intended as a front line support against infantry and vehicles.


#15 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:32 PM

View PostFupDup, on 20 October 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

If we modified their engines at all, it would essentially make people start asking about why they can't modify the engine on their other Clam mechs like Dire Whales and Mad Cats. So, the restrictions are in a bit of an "all or nothing" kind of situation. Of course, the admitted downside of this is that the mechs who lost the robot design lottery end up getting shafted...

Ultimately, I think the best solution is to simply quirk them up until they seem to do their job adequately.


The solution is quirks that grant them higher than normal speed tweak bonuses.

They don't actually need to change the engine rules.


These mechs have literally everything going against them.

Large, slow, sub-optimal engine sizes with less than 10 2.0 DHS, mediocre hardpoint options.



That's enough of that. Anyway I'm glad the Panther is getting a bigger engine and looking forward to seeing more details on the Grasshopper.

#16 Scratx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,283 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:36 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 07:05 PM, said:

You can rest easy, they are going to break the Engine rule for the Panther.


Posted Image



I'm conflicted, because on one hand I agree this is the right thing to do - the Panther will need a larger engine to have any hope of being decent.


On the other, I think it's pretty lopsided and arbitrary to saddle Clan light mechs with bad engine sizes, and poor hardpoint options. They don't even benefit from Clan XL really, as people just leg them as they are slow, and relatively large (the Kit Fox is almost 2x the size of a Spider).


I'm not sure why the Devs are OK with leaving Clan lights as an all around poor option.


Umm, clan Omnis are stuck with their engines because fixed equipment.

And frankly, that's fine. Those mechs just need to be played differently.

#17 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:36 PM

View PostUltimatum X, on 20 October 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:


The solution is quirks that grant them higher than normal speed tweak bonuses.

They don't actually need to change the engine rules.


These mechs have literally everything going against them.

Large, slow, sub-optimal engine sizes with less than 10 2.0 DHS, mediocre hardpoint options.



That's enough of that. Anyway I'm glad the Panther is getting a bigger engine and looking forward to seeing more details on the Grasshopper.

I don't disagree that they're sub-par, or that their sub-par-ness should be changed. I'd just prefer to distinguish them as better gunboats/support than the other lights to make up for their lack of speed (instead of just making them faster).

#18 Metus regem

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Sureshot
  • The Sureshot
  • 10,282 posts
  • LocationNAIS College of Military Science OCS courses

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:40 PM

View PostScratx, on 20 October 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:


Umm, clan Omnis are stuck with their engines because fixed equipment.

And frankly, that's fine. Those mechs just need to be played differently.


That's the point, the clans are ment to play differently than the IS, and I like that, I just wish that they had given different pods... Read, no S pod packages...

#19 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 20 October 2014 - 07:45 PM

View PostFupDup, on 20 October 2014 - 07:36 PM, said:

I don't disagree that they're sub-par, or that their sub-par-ness should be changed. I'd just prefer to distinguish them as better gunboats/support than the other lights to make up for their lack of speed (instead of just making them faster).


Outside of a slew of better pods & massive quirks, I just don't see that happening.

The last thing any team really needs are slow low ton mediums with even less armor and sub 250 engines.

#20 Bishop Steiner

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Hammer
  • The Hammer
  • 47,187 posts
  • Locationclimbing Mt Tryhard, one smoldering Meta-Mech corpse at a time

Posted 20 October 2014 - 08:23 PM

View PostHillslam, on 20 October 2014 - 04:30 PM, said:

Posted Image

ENFORCER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users