71 replies to this topic

[Catamount]

I feel very confident in saying that PSU was never capable of delivering its advertised 30A over the 12V rails, so it's fairly easy to imagine how I feel about trying to draw 27A.

There's certainly a chance the PSU might not die... right away. I still think a new unit is a safer bet

[Rawkstar]

Hey Catamount, thank you for your steady hand in this - you have kept me going in the right direction all along, totally appreciate it. (New PSU & GPU for sure, I'll likely pay to have it installed so I don't screw it up).

[Lord Letto]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Video Card: XFX Radeon R9 280 3GB Black Edition Double Dissipation Video Card ($194.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($44.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $239.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-21 22:45 EDT-0400

[xWiredx]

Want to talk PSUs? I'm here. Now we can talk PSUs.

First of 2 very basic ideas: amps. You need them. At least 30 of them, but 40 amps or more and we're talking safe amounts of breathing room (which means it will probably hold up if you want to upgrade your GPU again in the future, depending on how far in the future you're looking, because a PSU will show its age eventually).

The second: quality. Not just one type, either, but all the types! Build quality and component quality directly affect power quality. Clean, ripple-free power with no dips in delivery makes electronics happy. If you don't believe me, ask your microwave how it feels about brown-outs/rolling black-outs. I bet it's -extremely- sad when it experiences those, and it's just a dumb microwave. Imagine how a smarter machine must feel!

Essentially, what you're looking for is a Seasonic, or a PSU that was OE by Seasonic and sold by somebody else (Corsair has mostly gone with Seasonic throughout the years). Why? Impeccable build quality, top-notch components selection, a reputation as the best in the business for a pretty good amount of time, etc. JonnyGuru is a good website to look at for PSU reviews. Cheaping out on a PSU is -always- a gamble. Sometimes you win, sometimes you're throwing something away and getting the Seasonic you should have bought the first time around.

No, Seasonic isn't paying me. I'm just an overclocker with very strict expectations of my PSUs. I've used their PSUs for about a decade now and I've had nothing but good results. Even my new X99 Haswell-E system has a Seasonic PSU in it (a 760W 80PLUS-Platinum modular one, if you were curious).

[Catamount]

Just doing my job, good sir. We actually have managed an excellent little computing community here.

At this point, it seems like we really do know everything we need to, so you have some decisions to make. Your case doesn't have a whole lot of room, but I think it easily has enough as long as you're careful. Am I correct that nothing obstructs the purple square in your case interior image but cables that you can move somewhat out of the way? If so, 9" is definitely very easily doable, and I would get the semi space-restricted card I recommended

http://www.newegg.co...1-775-_-Product

PSUs you have a little more wiggle room on

The PSU I recommended was intended to fit into your budget, with cards like this one, without relying on Mail-In Rebates that, frankly, no one ever redeems (that's why they're so ubiquitous; it's like offering a sale price that attracts people, that no one ever claims; =profit!).

If, however, you do want to spend a little more, or you don't mind relying on an MiR, the PSU Lord Letto linked (sellers on the right; NCIX's sale ends today) is a hell of a deal, and will be nicer. Don't get me wrong, both PSUs will power you computer reliably, but the EVGA power supply is semi-modular, which means cables you don't need don't clutter your case, and that will make your setup a little easier, but once that one-time setup is done you won't really care. You probably won't care about a few percent efficiency either. I still think it's worth consideration overall. It is a nicer unit that will last you longer. If you replace this build in a few years, odds are you can probably keep that PSU (if you lose the modular cables like I always do you can buy more cheap), and it's a lot more failure-proof long term for running this machine. Like I said, it's not a necessary upgrade, but I'd bite the bullet and do it, were I you, though it will throw you up to like $285 until you redeem the MIR, and 265 afterwards (+sales tax?)

Quote

Essentially, what you're looking for is a Seasonic, or a PSU that was OE by Seasonic and sold by somebody else (Corsair has mostly gone with Seasonic throughout the years). Why? Impeccable build quality, top-notch components selection, a reputation as the best in the business for a pretty good amount of time, etc. JonnyGuru is a good website to look at for PSU reviews.

If he was a high overclocker and/or sucking down serious wattage, I would agree, but he's just a guy looking to get along functionally without paying an arm and a leg, so unless you can recommend a unit that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and Seasonic units are typically far from value parts, there are vastly inferior PSUs for far less money that are still vastly, vastly more than what's required here. Most Superflower units are probably vastly more than he'd ever need. Something decent from ATNG, Enermax, Channel Well or even EVGA as we seem to be throwing around in here is more than fine and wholly appropriate. Corsair's CXs are Channel Well. IMO, there's no reason to spend upwards of $70 on an S12II or S12G (the bottom of Seasonic's pricing atm) to do the job of a $40 unit. That's like sending the army after a bankrobber. Like I said though, if you can find one appropriately priced, then by all means; I love Seasonic units.

Edited by Catamount, 22 October 2014 - 05:56 AM.

[Ruccus]

As I read the thread, the OP wants to get a GeForce GTX 760 for around $200. If so, his OEM power supply should be adequate because I can't see a Core i5 and GTX 760 using more than 300w under load, and probably less. Guru3D's review showed 279w under load with a Core i7 OCed to 4.6Ghz, and HardOCP's review showed 303w under load also with a Core i7 OCed to 4.6Ghz. Considering that's system wattage and their overclocked processors are consuming much more power than a stock Core i5, I'd think the OP's system might only be at 250w or so under load.

Going to a higher end card would probably warrant a power supply upgrade, but I think the computer's current power supply should be fine so long as the CPU and GPU aren't loading the same rail. Not saying it's a good power supply (I like Seasonic as well), but it should be adequate for the OP's needs.

[Rawkstar]

...my good brothers, thank you again kindly for you help and diligence. I am impressed. ...you certainly do have an excellent little computing community here indeed. (As an afterthought, I don't mind spending between 250 & 350 to make this thing go right - I likely wont be doing this again for a while).

Here is the final tally:

One Asus 760: http://www.newegg.co...1-775-_-Product

+

One PSU http://pcpartpicker....ply-110b10750vr (spend a little more now, means saving mor later)

= AWESOME!!!

Thanks again, I'll post FPS screenshot and report back when the project is complete.


Cheers,

[Catamount]

An i5-3450 and a GTX 760? Yeah, this little computer is going to wipe the floor with games, and not just MWO. I hope it lasts you a good 3-4 years of solid framerates and settings in anything you want to play (longer, if you're not too particular ).

Good luck, Rawkstar. Just let us know if you have any problems, including fit (it shouldn't, not even close). We can work you through them.

Edited by Catamount, 22 October 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[Summon3r]

good choice on the ASUS 760! i may be a little envious.

[xWiredx]

Catamount, on 22 October 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

If he was a high overclocker and/or sucking down serious wattage, I would agree, but he's just a guy looking to get along functionally without paying an arm and a leg, so unless you can recommend a unit that doesn't cost an arm and a leg, and Seasonic units are typically far from value parts, there are vastly inferior PSUs for far less money that are still vastly, vastly more than what's required here. Most Superflower units are probably vastly more than he'd ever need. Something decent from ATNG, Enermax, Channel Well or even EVGA as we seem to be throwing around in here is more than fine and wholly appropriate. Corsair's CXs are Channel Well. IMO, there's no reason to spend upwards of $70 on an S12II or S12G (the bottom of Seasonic's pricing atm) to do the job of a $40 unit. That's like sending the army after a bankrobber. Like I said though, if you can find one appropriately priced, then by all means; I love Seasonic units.

There is a Seasonic 520W unit that delivers 40A on the 12v rails that would be ideal for OP, and only $62. It isn't modular, but coming from a prebuilt I don't see that being a problem.

Looks like OP picked a PSU way beyond what he needed that is more expensive that the unit I'm mentioning (before promo price discount), I think it's a safe bet he's willing to go with quality. The PSU he got will definitely suffice, but that unit in particular has some issues with voltage regulation and cross-loading the rails. It also apparently is noisy. For about the same price (again, before the promo discount), he could get a 600W Corsair that would definitely be a better choice.

[focuspark]

GTX 970 = pure win. Do it!

[Catamount]

xWiredx, on 22 October 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

There is a Seasonic 520W unit that delivers 40A on the 12v rails that would be ideal for OP, and only $62. It isn't modular, but coming from a prebuilt I don't see that being a problem.

Looks like OP picked a PSU way beyond what he needed that is more expensive that the unit I'm mentioning (before promo price discount), I think it's a safe bet he's willing to go with quality. The PSU he got will definitely suffice, but that unit in particular has some issues with voltage regulation and cross-loading the rails. It also apparently is noisy. For about the same price (again, before the promo discount), he could get a 600W Corsair that would definitely be a better choice.

Corsair CXs are hardly star performers themselves. They're adequate; not good (There are Rosewill ATNG units I'd recommend over them any day, often for less money), and it's splitting hairs. The OP is never going to care about small differences in ripple or voltage regulation, as long as things stay within spec. It literally will never make a single bit of difference to him. At least being semi-modular confers an actual real-world advantage or two, and that wattage headroom may well carry over to future builds. And if he bothers to claim that $20 MiR? That's a not inconsiderable difference there.

The CX600 isn't a bad recommendation (though again, that's not a Seasonic unit; it's CWT), but it's also hardly unequivocally superior. Yeah, the CX series has good voltage regulation and ripple, but their transient filtering stages are the bare minimum for adequate, they don't even meet the 80+ specification in real-world testing (hardware secrets got the CX430 down into the high 70s), and again, there's no modularity.

I won't tell the OP not to go with the CX600, but I don't see it as a real winner, either. If he cares even remotely about modularity, even if it's some far off ancillary concern, I'd still probably take the EVGA unit. If he's not going to redeem any MiRs, I'd probably recommend neither and tell him to go with one of the new Rosewill ARC PSUs. They're new, and not yet reviewed, but even with available info they clearly outperform the Rosewill Greens that they seem positioned to replace that already trade blows with the CXs (lousy ripple by comparison, especially 12v, but they're most robustly built and have better efficiency)

[xWiredx]

You know, I hadn't thought about transient filters in awhile. Do people actually run their systems directly off the wall? My system sits on a power conditioning surge protector, but any decent surge protector means you don't need as much from the transient filter (if you've got clean power coming from the surge protector, it has less internal noise to deal with in addition to not having to deal with any power fluctuations from the wall). The CX600 is definitely a better PSU overall than the EVGA (not that the EVGA is bad, and with the money off any budget player will make out decently).

I'm kind of extra glad I put these kinds of things in my "build the next computer" budget every time, though. Budget PSUs scare me.

[Catamount]

It's my experience that most people tend to have nothing but a cheap power strip between their PSU and wall, even people who know better. I used to have a nice UPS running to mine back when gaming PCs drew fewer watts, but that was some years back. For whatever reason, the burden of good power always seems to lay on the poor PSU alone. Maybe it's just convenience. I haul my tower around a lot. I'd hate to rely on ideal AC input for my computer to work well.

[Flapdrol]

xWiredx, on 22 October 2014 - 10:12 AM, said:

You know, I hadn't thought about transient filters in awhile. Do people actually run their systems directly off the wall? My system sits on a power conditioning surge protector, but any decent surge protector means you don't need as much from the transient filter

Where I live everybody runs their system directly off the wall, including me. It's what psu's are designed for.

I'm running an ax750 btw, probably 3x what I need , but when I bought it there were no lower rated 80+ gold psu's on the market, and I was running a sli setup at the time. It's by far the most expensive component of my pc.

Edited by Flapdrol, 22 October 2014 - 11:14 AM.

[Goose]

OP: Do your homework: http://hardocp.com/r...power_supplies/

Teh $500 or So thread winds up with a lot of EVGAs and Corsairs 'cause they are meh and cheap, as opposed to ether good or bad …

[Rawkstar]

...yup, just ran afterburner, my CPU is running at 22-28% and GPU at a solid 99%

I am def going to shell out for a nice power supply & GPU.

Thanks again !

Edited by Rawkstar, 23 October 2014 - 06:22 PM.

[Rawkstar]

...sorry about the necro, but I am ready to pull the trigger on this tonight:

MSI GeForce GTX 760 Video Card Mini
http://www.tigerdire...5856&CatId=7387

Catamount, is this a good call - am I going down the wrong path here?

Thanks again for everything.

[ImperialKnight]

The GTX970 is by far the MOST cost effective card right now on the market. There is little reason to get anything else in the current market. It's only slightly more expensive than budget cards but gives you almost top of the line performance

As for PSU, definitely get a Seasonic. They are so good, they are the OEM for a lot of companies out there. Most of the performance line of PSU by Corsair, Coolermaster, etc.... are actually Seasonic units. You can almost guarantee that Seasonic has an equivalent model of those they make for other companies. So don't pay for the mark up, buy direct from Seasonic. I own a X-series 750W myself. You can find nothing but stellar reviews for their PSUs.

[Comrademig]

There's a PCS+ 290 for $240 once you use the VISACHECKOUT promo code (and use Visa checkout) and do the $10 MIR. I'm not sure if the promo is still valid though, I havent checked. Its a great card though.
http://www.newegg.co...1-549-_-Product

Edited by Comrademig, 23 October 2014 - 07:06 PM.