13 replies to this topic

[Warchild Corsair]

Noticed that the cap time on conquest is now measured in SECONDS when capping with multiple 'Mechs (also, the cap acc module is really hefty).

Also, the reward for turning the enemy base in assault is not given.

Edited by Warchild Corsair, 21 October 2014 - 12:06 PM.

[Bigbacon]

WAY to short, even single mechs can cap extremely quickly from neutral. it was slow before but it is too fast now.

so far all the conquest rounds I've been in have been just death ball zerg rushes to get it one side down on numbers they will lose no matter what.

least before if your team capped first and fought second, you could still win. Now,that isn't possible at all.

my next purchase is capture accelerator for my locust and I am going to play nothing but conquest and just cap everything in like 10 seconds or maybe put it on a fast medium with enough fire power to take out turrets and cap bases..

i think the times you've chosen have done the opposite and sort of put conquest in the same place it was before just. 2 mechs can cap in like 15 seconds if that it seems, get 3 or more and its nearly instant.

Edited by Bigbacon, 21 October 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Bigbacon]

after one more quick round...I'm done with conquest...

i liked it before and did think the cap times could be shorter but it is ultimately too short now and you've sort of made it the same as before just in a completely different way.

[White Bear 84]

Needs to be a cap on the speed of capping.

[Koniving]

In the past I conceived a suggestion that each additional player on the cap point would have a decreasing advantage.

• Lets assume for the moment it takes 20 seconds to capture for 1 mech.
  
  • With 2 it takes 15 seconds.
    
  • With 3 it takes 11.25 seconds.
    
  • With 4 it takes 8.4375 seconds.
    
  • with 5 it takes 6.328125 seconds.
    
  • With 6 it takes 4.74609375 seconds.

This example keeps the same percentage going, however. Ideally we want the percentage of the change to reduce, so each additional player not only doesn't significantly reduce the time, but to a point where any additional players would be purely wasting their time (thus hopefully reducing the 'death train' as the mass presence won't have any real effect).

In the previous example it was 20 times 0.75, then that result * 0.75, etc.

So here it is after the reducing factor. (for 2, *0.75, for 3, *0.80, for 4, *0.85, etc.

• Lets assume for the moment it takes 20 seconds to capture for 1 mech.
  
  • With 2 it takes 15 seconds.
    
  • With 3 it takes 12 seconds.
    
  • With 4 it takes 10.2 seconds.
    
  • with 5 it takes 9.18 seconds.
    
  • With 6 it takes 8.721 seconds.
    
  • Cuts off here?

Btw the 'super rapid' caps are because of the capture modules + multiple mechs. Capture modules do have a bit of an obscenely high percentage that I think should have been adjusted (I don't know if they were or not).

On a side note, Conquest is a lot more fun for me now.
In a light or medium, I have something to do to benefit the team that isn't boring.
On a heavy or assault, I now have to defend a resource collector.
That's a plus for me.

Edited by Koniving, 21 October 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Bigbacon]

2 mechs can nearly capture a base in assault in almost no time at all.

I just think the times are too fast.

I agree'd with all before saying they needed to be faster but not this fast.

Edited by Bigbacon, 21 October 2014 - 01:32 PM.

[Warchild Corsair]

@Koniving great you like it (and I agree that before no one really cared on conquest due to the extremely long cap times) but I played it a couple of times and that is the other extreme. There is no tactical value in these rapid caps because you cannot react to ongoing caps in any way. They are simply over too quick.

This is also negative because even if you get ahead in caps, the enemy team can now even quicker turn the tides, since they cap much quicker while you do not earn any more points towards the 750 points mark. Makes cap wins even more unlikely.

Edited by Warchild Corsair, 21 October 2014 - 01:43 PM.

[Koniving]

Warchild Corsair, on 21 October 2014 - 01:43 PM, said:

@Koniving great you like it (and I agree that before no one really cared on conquest due to the extremely long cap times) but I played it a couple of times and that is the other extreme. There is no tactical value in these rapid caps because you cannot react to ongoing caps in any way. They are simply over too quick.

This is also negative because even if you get ahead in caps, the enemy team can now even quicker turn the tides, since they cap much quicker while you do not earn any more points towards the 750 points mark. Makes cap wins even more unlikely.

On a side note: The caps in assault shouldn't be quick. Just conquest.

Now, I think conquest should have higher than a 750 point limit for larger maps. In the past a full capture from one end to the other was 2 minutes and 30 seconds. 50 seconds to make a capture, 50 seconds to go from neutral red to neutral blue. And 50 seconds to change it from red to neutral.

I'm not entirely sure how long it is, but I'm thinking 20 seconds to make each change (maximum time 1 minute for 1 person capturing) is more than sufficient time for a reaction. The lights and mediums should be capturing, and if an assault or heavy is 'reacting' rather than 'pre-empting' then there is a horrific fallacy from the defending team!

All capture points should have forces sent to them. Some to stay and defend. Others to quickly move on to support captures elsewhere or fight.

There should not be an excuse for a longer than one minute reaction time for an ally unit to reach a base to undo a change.

At the same time, a good offensive team will entangle and tie up those forces, preventing them from undoing the capture.

In open beta when conquest first started, the trend was to have a series of mechs going from point to point, capturing and moving on, with a follow up team on the other side of the map, constantly going 'round and 'round while a number of mechs went for the points near the middle to capture and hold them to the death. Naturally the other team had a similar strategy, and it made games win by hairpin triggers or even ties. Sometimes a shift in tactic like 'waiting' at the 'next' base the enemy would take and ambushing them or the sneaky move such as lights with LRMs firing on the other lights while going from base to base would change the tide of the match.

[Darth Futuza]

Koniving, on 21 October 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

On a side note, Conquest is a lot more fun for me now.
In a light or medium, I have something to do to benefit the team that isn't boring.
On a heavy or assault, I now have to defend a resource collector.
That's a plus for me.

Yup. Seems like a good change to me.

[Koniving]

Okay so I timed it.

Currently it's 10 seconds (approx, give or take a second) to make a change on conquest for 1 mech.

10 seconds to go from neutral to blue.
10 seconds to go from no blue to full blue.

Capture module reduces that by 15%. 8.5 seconds for one mech to make a change to a base's status.

That is a bit too quick. 30 seconds to make full red turn to full blue. Half the time of my example, and 1/5th of the old time.

Please refer to my 20-second example (which is 2/5ths of the old time; with something for reducing the effectiveness of stacking 'the entire team' on a base at the same time). Post#5. Second example.

[JC Daxion]

I'm not liking it to much.. just to fast..


personally i'd like to see caps work like this...


From neutral, It takes one mech a while to get it moving, Just like it was before todays patch.. If you get 3+ it will start capping sooner.

On the flip side... If you are flipping a cap, A single mech can drop the cap fast... But when it hits neutral, it again takes a while to get it going to your side, unless you have 2-3+ mechs on it.

To me, this would make mechs work in teams more, and make defending a cap more important. It also would slow down the single lights that just go off and cap alone, making them need to group more.


this would also, let teams drop caps faster, But making capturing them take a lot longer.. So, if the other team just has a couple mechs left, especially lights on a big map, they no longer have the advantage, as they lost most of the team. in the case that they grabbed caps early, but lost the team, now they just have to do a quick flip, and it is a win. Making harder to flip a cap to your side, But make it easy to drop the cap is the way to go.


another thing i wouldn't mind is to see some turrets in conquest. A group doesnt have much trouble with a few turrets, but a single mech might think twice about trying to grab that cap. could add an interesting layer to the game. As it is right now, i find it just way to much of a jump into the other direction.

Edited by JC Daxion, 21 October 2014 - 07:26 PM.

[HimseIf]

i actually like the new cap speed. Make "in the old days" cap speed was only slightly slower than it is now, so far all the conquest matches i have been in have been cap some, fight some, cap some more and the victory is on either who kills more or who caps smarter.

[NKAc Street]

Cap speed is perfect, leave it alone.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

PGI, please revert the changes to capture times. This change makes capturing accelerators and light 'Mechs for that purpose obsolete.
The time to capture was perfect before the patch!