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Need Help With Buying My First Mech


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#1 Honolulu26

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 02:12 AM

Hi,

I'm new to MWO and I need some help choosing the first mech to buy, because the game is not really noob-friendly :P My search on the forum did not really bring satisfying results, so I'm creating a new topic.

Of the Trial Mechs I've tested the Nova Prime seems to fit my playstyle best.
My Questions:

1) Did this Nerf ( http://mwomercs.com/...for-laser-nerf/ ) happen? Is the Nova still worth playing?
2) The armament of the stock Nova Prime is bad, because you can't even fire all weapons at once. By the time you're cool enough again, your weapons are ready. So some of those Medium Lasers are just a waste of space and tonnage. Is it possible to buy so many Heatsinks that you can fire all 12 lasers?

3) I really like PPCs. Is the Nova good for this? Comparing these two: (Nova is an experiment of mine that I quickly created) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c76b351786fcae7 and http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23c011405ec62ec (Thanks Mar X Man). While both have the same firepower and cooling efficiency, the Nova still has no armor. Are PPCs even worth using?

4) How newb-friendly is the Adder with two PPCs? How's the Awesome with 3 PPCs (the cheaper one)? How's the Hunchback 4G (the one with AC 20)? How's the Catapult K-2?

I think that should be all questions I have for now. I'd really appreciate any help with my questions. :)

#2 Chuanhao

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:46 AM

I am also a PPC lover - even with the speed nerf.

I have two mechs that seem optimised for PPCs - Awesome and warhawk. One just has to adjust ones play style due to heat issues. I prefer the direct fire support role. Which PPCs seem best at. Especially boats with multiples and nothing much else. I play the warhawk prime, losing the LRMS for more heat sinks. I also play the AWS 8T with 4 PPCs. I would wait for the quirks on Nov 3 to make a better decision.

Do refer to the ultimate mech guides on this same forum.

#3 Koniving

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:49 AM

Welcome to MWO.

1) Said nerf happened. It wasn't specifically targeted for the Nova, but truth be told it does hurt the 12 laser builds. (Then again, in its stock form [but elited] it can perform three times as good as the Battletech Nova could ever dream of doing in terms of lasers put down range. After the nerf, maybe 2.5 times as good.) People think they are entitled to firing all the lasers at once just because they can, when in fact 6 ER ML in the canon setup of BT, fired at the same time with only 1 second of cooling, would shutdown the mech if it was moving at full speed.

It took the IS laser nerf and applied it to Clan lasers (extra heat on small and medium lasers to discourage boating and firing them all at once, reduced heat and extra damage on larger lasers -- something that still escapes me).

2) Battletech, and thus Mechwarrior (though this seems to not be the case with MWO) energy weapons are meant to be fired one to four at a time. Chain fired. Zap, zap, zap, zap, zap, zap for high heat efficiency.
Here's an example.

Sadly this became lost in development over time. It seems to be a foreign concept to non-Battletech players.

Here is a Nova in action in Battletech. It is an exchange between a Locust and a Nova. This occurred over 10 seconds, and so there is 10 seconds of cooling applied. You will notice the weapons rarely hit the same place.
Spoiler

The last shot is done while the Locust is falling from losing its leg and so it's a glancing blow. The attack was done at high speed (86 for the Nova, roughly 97 for the Locust [it wasn't going full speed so it'd have better accuracy]).

The problem with MWO's design is that they give you extra threshold on top of cooling. A problem that plagued MW4 with horrific balance.
Remember, 6 lasers while moving would be a guaranteed shutdown if fired at the same time (the above example was queued in the same turn [10 seconds] but was not an actual alpha strike).

Yet... stationary, 12 lasers, even with EXTRA HEAT, just shut me down. The laser nerf was to make this punishing without fixing the real problem. :( The reason they won't fix the real problem is people want to shoot lots of lasers at the same time.

3) Every mech is good for ER PPCs. But you're trying to be far too entitled. There's a reason most mechs don't sport so many.
Try this build. It's quite a bit more practical.
Or check out this semi-stock build (I only changed one weapon). Notice what it doesn't do? Carry a lot of the same weapon.

The main reason the Nova carries 12 ER ML is because in battletech, it is a lot easier to destroy a mech's weapons even without going through the armor. I had a Nova in one turn (10 seconds), lose 11 ER ML when under fire from two King Crabs sporting LBX-10s and PPCs. Still had both arms. Still had armor. But lost most of my weapons. It only takes a single crit to lose an ER ML in Battletech.

In MWO they have 10 health... but so does almost everything, making it difficult to lose them, and thus lowering the value of having so many except for the "one shot kills all" mentality. PGI said it will be refining that system after Community Warfare, so expect having redundant weapons to matter for more than that fire all weapons at once mentality.

4) The Adder is faster than a Nova, but it's got its own flaws. Every mech does. (Can we get the Adder yet for Cbills? I don't think we can). But if you want, the Kitfox is a fairly cheap thing to try. Give it an ER PPC in the "C" right arm alongside an ECM to be undetected at long range and give a single ER PPC a try.

But if you want PPCs, Inner Sphere mechs are easier, their standard PPCs are colder.



This is an assault with 4 PPC and 4 ER PPC builds. Notice how they are fired?


Atlas, Gauss, PPC, 3 SPL and SRMs. (This was on the day of the change of Gauss from normal fire to Charge fire). The first match does bad due to Gauss charge failures. The second match however goes fantastic after some practice with it.


A Nova versus a far superior Timber Wolf. Nova only has 4 completely random weapons. Wins.


#4 IraqiWalker

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:52 AM

View PostHonolulu26, on 23 October 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

Hi,

I'm new to MWO and I need some help choosing the first mech to buy, because the game is not really noob-friendly :P My search on the forum did not really bring satisfying results, so I'm creating a new topic.

Of the Trial Mechs I've tested the Nova Prime seems to fit my playstyle best.


We'll be happy to help you with your request. You've certainly come to the right section.

View PostHonolulu26, on 23 October 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

My Questions:


View PostHonolulu26, on 23 October 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

1) Did this Nerf ( http://mwomercs.com/...for-laser-nerf/ ) happen? Is the Nova still worth playing?


Yeah, that Nerf happened a long time ago (things got tweaked around since then).

The Nova is definitely still playable, even in the prime config (I run mine with 6 ERMLs in the right fist, and 6 ERSLs in the left fist).

Also, it is a clan mech, something you may not be aware of with them [clan mechs] is that you can swap their body parts around (The Nova S has only 3 energy hardpoints in the arms, and so you can put those arms on the NVA-Prime instead of the giant 6 Energy hardpoint arm).

View PostHonolulu26, on 23 October 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

2) The armament of the stock Nova Prime is bad, because you can't even fire all weapons at once. By the time you're cool enough again, your weapons are ready. So some of those Medium Lasers are just a waste of space and tonnage. Is it possible to buy so many Heatsinks that you can fire all 12 lasers?


Not all 12 ER-Medium Lasers. 12 ER-Small Lasers would be possible, and do happen. I personally run mine with the 1, 2, punch system mentioned above.


View PostHonolulu26, on 23 October 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

3) I really like PPCs. Is the Nova good for this? Comparing these two: (Nova is an experiment of mine that I quickly created) http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c76b351786fcae7 and http://mwo.smurfy-ne...23c011405ec62ec (Thanks Mar X Man). While both have the same firepower and cooling efficiency, the Nova still has no armor. Are PPCs even worth using?


The Nova is not good for PPCs, the arms are too low. The only way for you to make them work, is to jump and then fire.

PPCs are great weapons, however, the Nova might not be the best platform for them. Also, on a medium, especially a light one like the Nova at 50 tons, more than 2 PPCs is never worth it.

A Shadowhawk 2K is a better PPC platform than the Nova.

View PostHonolulu26, on 23 October 2014 - 02:12 AM, said:

4) How newb-friendly is the Adder with two PPCs? How's the Awesome with 3 PPCs (the cheaper one)? How's the Hunchback 4G (the one with AC 20)? How's the Catapult K-2?


All but the Adder are noob friendly as far as PPCs go. However, of those I cannot in good conscience recommend the Awesome, until it's quirks come out (it's gonna be glorious to run PPCs on it after November 4th).

The CPLT-K2 is the only ballistic capable one in that entire line, so it plays differently than the rest, it also doesn't have Jump Jets, but it has decently high mounted energy hardpoints in the arms for sniping weapons. (It can also run Dual Gauss)

The HBK-4G is a good mech, I personally recommend the Shadowhawks (almost anyone of them is a good starter mech), or the HBK-4SP as a starter mech (has no hunch, can help you learn everything you need to be a good pilot, before you jump into the other HBKs to learn torso twisting, and then other mechs with JJs to learn how to use those).


One thing to keep in mind about Hunchbacks is that the hunch is always targeted, and so you will have to learn to torso twist, and for a new player, that's a difficult thing to learn from the get go, so if you go HBKs, go with the 4SP first.

#5 SleekHusky

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 03:53 AM

Nova is not that good right now according to most people. I don't find it too bad personally but you will have a better time getting the Stormcrow while it is on sale right now. (45% off)
Awesome right now is a bit of a joke and 3ppcs will be ghost heat galore.
Not sure Adder with 2 ppc is noob friendly at all either but I never piloted one.

#6 dragnier1

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 04:14 AM

First off i'll suggest IS mechs for you, those that are closer to the nova.
1. Shadow hawk. Decent armour and can play a variety of roles, depending on the weapons equiped. Jumpjets included for greater mobility, just remember to use them. (They are on sale too)
2. Catafract. Slower than the nova, most variants can't jump, but it packs a strong punch just like the nova and can withstand fire far longer.

As for clan mechs, the stormcrow is on sale, for only a few days. Give it a try if you prefer clan mechs.

Here's the link about the SALE

Edited by dragnier1, 23 October 2014 - 04:18 AM.


#7 Malcolm Vordermark

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 09:57 AM

The Nova isn't so bad. But with the sale that is going on right now Stormcrows are 45% off. I would highly recommend you pick them up and later on come back for the Nova.

#8 Honolulu26

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 10:13 AM

I really appreciate your quick help! :)
I've played Mechwarrior (4 and below) many many times before, but this game is so confusing :D
Thank you for your suggestions on Mechs and their builds, I'll take some time to think about which one suits my needs.

But what are the differences between Inner Sphere and Clan Mechs? In MW4 there were practically no differences, if any at all. Yet in MWO it seems to be very important. Could somebody please explain it in a very noob-friendly way?

Quirks are those "+5% torso turning speed" things right? What will be changed about the Awesome? Could somebody please post a link to an overview of the upcoming changes?


What's the difference between Standard and Endo-Steel structure? And between Ferro-Fibrous and Standard armor?

I guess I might give Shadow Hawk, Stormcrow or Hunchback a try as first Mech. Or the Catapult K-2 with 2x Gauss :lol: Sounds nasty.

I really acknowledge those who have the patience to deal with all my questions.

Edited by Honolulu26, 23 October 2014 - 10:25 AM.


#9 IraqiWalker

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Posted 23 October 2014 - 08:49 PM

View PostHonolulu26, on 23 October 2014 - 10:13 AM, said:

I really appreciate your quick help! :)
I've played Mechwarrior (4 and below) many many times before, but this game is so confusing :D
Thank you for your suggestions on Mechs and their builds, I'll take some time to think about which one suits my needs.

But what are the differences between Inner Sphere and Clan Mechs? In MW4 there were practically no differences, if any at all. Yet in MWO it seems to be very important. Could somebody please explain it in a very noob-friendly way?

Quirks are those "+5% torso turning speed" things right? What will be changed about the Awesome? Could somebody please post a link to an overview of the upcoming changes?


What's the difference between Standard and Endo-Steel structure? And between Ferro-Fibrous and Standard armor?

I guess I might give Shadow Hawk, Stormcrow or Hunchback a try as first Mech. Or the Catapult K-2 with 2x Gauss :lol: Sounds nasty.

I really acknowledge those who have the patience to deal with all my questions.



The difference between standard, and endo/ferro is weight saving.

You see standard structure, and armor, weigh more, but don't cost you any slots. While the upgrades cost 14 slots each, and weigh less, freeing up more space.

I always recommend getting Endo steel first. Ferro is only useful on a handful of lights for now, and isn't worth the cost as a first upgrade.

This Guide will cover all you need to know about mech building in a concise manner. Read the section on upgrades for full detail.


as for clan mechs vs. IS mechs:

Clan mechs have fixed, and locked engines, upgrades, and certain items (such as DHS, JJs, and some weapons) As a trade off, they get the ability to switch any body part (except CT) on a variant with that of another variant of the same chassis.

For example:

IS mechs have their hardpoints locked. However, on clan mechs, If I wanted ECM on any of my kitfoxes, I just remove the current right arm, and instead purchase and install the right arm of the C varaint onto it.

Clan mechs can switch hardpoints between their variants.

Another difference is how their weapons work.

IS ballistics fire one bullet that deals the full damage to one location, making them absolutely devastating. While clan ballistics are multi-shot weapons that fire in bursts.

For example, IS AC 20 fires one bullet for 20 damage.

Clan AC 20 fires 5 bullets, each dealing 4 damage to get 20 total. That means clan ballistics will spread their damage/deal partial damage a lot.

Clan LRMs are very light, and small, but they fire in long streams, allowing their target to get to cover faster, and receive less damage, AMS is also extremely potent against them.

clan lasers all have longer burn durations than IS lasers, but deal more damage, while generating more heat.

The only weapon that is absolutely just an improvement on it's IS counterpart is the clan Gauss, it's smaller, and lighter, for the same stats.


All in all, IS mechs tend to excel at short range engagements, and hit and run tactics, since they can deliver their blow very quickly, in one shot, and then start torso twisting to spread incoming damage.

While clan mechs excel at long range fights, and damage over time. This means that they do not torso twist as often, or as early as IS mechs, leading to many of them to just stare down their opponent.

Clans win stare down contests, and snipe fests, but lose to brawls, and mobile fights.

#10 John1352

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 05:29 AM

There is a big advantage to having 3 mechs of the same chassis, once all basic mech skills are unlocked on all 3 variants, you unlock the elite skills, and once a variant has all it's elite skills done (will take a while), you get 2x basics. Considering the shadowhawk is a commonly recommended new player mech, and it has a 45% off sale, I think you should buy 3 shadowhawks. I'd get the 2K, 2D2 and 5M, (5M because you're getting an XL275 engine which you can swap into all of them, and it has 5 jumpjets). The shadowhawk can use pretty much any weapon, the only thing it is bad for is carrying lots of lasers.

You should be able to get all 3 using the cadet bonus.

#11 SnagaDance

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 06:46 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 23 October 2014 - 08:49 PM, said:

All in all, IS mechs tend to excel at short range engagements, and hit and run tactics, since they can deliver their blow very quickly, in one shot, and then start torso twisting to spread incoming damage.

While clan mechs excel at long range fights, and damage over time. This means that they do not torso twist as often, or as early as IS mechs, leading to many of them to just stare down their opponent.

Clans win stare down contests, and snipe fests, but lose to brawls, and mobile fights.

An important thing to take away from this. New players usually do not torso twist (as much/very well). This means that fights at the lower ELO level (beginners and those that are simply not very good at the game) tend to go for the stare down contests regardless of mechs used (IS or Clan). Meaning that Clan mechs win more often (leading to 'Clans are OP, nerf!' reactions from this part of the population). This can make Clan mechs easier to do well with at the beginning but you'll probably stabilise once you get pitted versus more experienced players. It does lead to bad habits though, as you never learn to torso twist very well, and when trying out IS mechs (and not doing the twisty) you might percieve them as 'bad'. They are not, they just require a different play style.

#12 dragnier1

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:03 AM

One big thing to note about stormcrows. They are at 45% sale until friday/saturday, after which they return to being 11.2 mil .

You're still at "cadet" stage and if you either miss the sale due to being "too late" / having insufficient cash i suggest you give stormcrows a miss till your cashflow (cbills earning) is steady. That or you could opt to spend on it, the clan packs are still on sale.

If you're planning to use you could probably look at the clan heavies as well as the victors (jump capable) or stalker set. I'm thinking these might be a tad close to the nova in terms of speed / firepower / jump abilities.

#13 JC Daxion

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 08:17 AM

i never played a nova, but i have fought plenty, and they do some decent damage. If you like to laser boat, it seems like it should be a pretty good mech.

that said, Seeing you mentioned the catapults, and the K2, which is very popular, or at least used to be before the clan invasion. You saw at least one every other match or so. Personally it is a decent mech, but i prefer the missile Cat's better. But as you mentioned the nova, the Jester (the catapult hero, which means a 30% c-bill boost) is a great mech to boat lasers. The Cat C1 is my favorite though, a pair of LRM 15's, 3 medium pulse, and a tag, this mech is so much fun. I never tried the A1, that one is the 6 missile hard point cat,., but people seem to like it and it is consider one of the better cat's according to the Tier list.


As for the HBK 4G, it is such a fun mech. Nothing like blasting someone at close range with an AC-20 and then disappearing before they are able to turn around. Besides that, On nov 4th, this mech is getting a HUGE buff to right torso armor which is the biggest down fall of the HBK, as if you loose your right torso, you loose your AC-20, so that should help a ton. They also are getting a big reduction in firing speed of said AC-20, and a range boost. combine that with a AC-20 cooldown and range module, i think this mech is going to become quite popular. I know i can't wait to fire this bad boy up again.

that said, the 4P is a laser boat.. Sorta the IS version of a nova.. It holds 9 Lasers, but like said nova cat, they run hot.. but that will teach you a ton about heat management.

The HBK-4sp is one of my favorite mechs.. A pair of SRM 4's and 5 ML's if a force to be feared.

While many people will say other mediums are better than the HBK, i really think the new quirks, are going to push these mechs back into being recommended again for newbies, as they are cheap, and have tons of viable load outs. They also will teach you the skills of torso twisting or die which is one of the best lessons a Mech warrior can learn.

Another great thing about the HBK's is the torso twist range. these things can practically fire behind them. Over all the HBK's are incredible mechs, and to me one of the best mechs a newbie can learn on.


Just buy yourself a STD 250 engine, and get double heat sinks, and upgrade the internal structure on them, and you are good to go. You can buy all 3 mechs, and upgrades for maybe 15m.. well worth you money, on very solid mechs.

Catapults, are the second mechs i bought after i got my 3 HBK's, though i did not play them till they fixed missiles last winter. While the catapults do have a large center torso, they are still great mechs in the right hands. I don't know what quirks they are getting, but i do know i can't wait, cause these boys are gonna get even better!

Edited by JC Daxion, 24 October 2014 - 08:23 AM.






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