16 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Before the last patch the LB-20X got critical hit damage. Not everytime, but regular critical hit destruction. Now almost never since the current patch. Also LB-20X damage sometimes not registering when under 100-75 meters. I use the LB-20X Range skill x5, but I was using this with no problems before last patch also.

For instance 3x dead center hits on a Dire-Wolf with no armor going from dark orange to dark red, no critical hit. This is common now, but a sure kill before last patch.

[IraqiWalker]

Lightfoot, on 24 October 2014 - 08:17 PM, said:

Before the last patch the LB-20X got critical hit damage. Not everytime, but regular critical hit destruction. Now almost never since the current patch. Also LB-20X damage sometimes not registering when under 100-75 meters. I use the LB-20X Range skill x5, but I was using this with no problems before last patch also.

For instance 3x dead center hits on a Dire-Wolf with no armor going from dark orange to dark red, no critical hit. This is common now, but a sure kill before last patch.

Crits don't deal bonus damage, they damage internals IF there are any. ALso, 3 dead center hits is 60 damage, and that's if all 20 pellets hit the CT every single time. Coupled with the fact that orange can be anywhere from 75%-50%+ internal health, and you can see why you could sometimes kill them with 3, and other times, don't.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 24 October 2014 - 09:17 PM.

[Platinum Spider]

IraqiWalker, on 24 October 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Crits don't deal bonus damage, they damage internals IF there are any. ALso, 3 dead center hits is 60 damage, and that's if all 20 pellets hit the CT every single time. Coupled with the fact that orange can be anywhere from 75%-50%+ internal health, and you can see why you could sometimes kill them with 3, and other times, don't.

Crits on LBX are supposed to do extra damage 14% chance for double, 8% to do quadruple, and 3% to do sextuple damage. Check LBX in smurfy.

[senaiboy]

AFAIK, crit does not deal extra damage to the INTERNAL STRUCTURE (armor). It deals damage to the COMPONENT (weapons, heat sinks, etc), with extra damage to said COMPONENT on double crit, triple crit, etc.

https://www.mechspec...ts-damage.4170/

Edited by senaiboy, 25 October 2014 - 08:25 AM.

[Lightfoot]

The Engine is one of those components. It has 6 criticals in the center torso.

I have been using the LB-20X for about three weeks exclusively, if the mech can carry it. It is not like it was before the patch. I don't have a critical hit meter, not sure it's even counted for players, but last week if I hit a Dire-Wolf with a dark orange CT it would be 50-50 a kill, next shot CT is pure red, 75% kill, next shot dark red, 95% kill. But since the patch there are no bonus critical hits, just straight damage.

This week the LB-20X behaves like an AC20, when the armor is gone, but the LB weapons trade poor armor damage for much higher internal damaging crits once the armor is gone. Does the LB-20X get 20 crit chances? Not sure, but it works very well when not bugged so when it doesn't work you can't miss it. If you don't get that crit bonus you need to be using an AC-20 or UAC-20 so you get the raw upfront damage that the LBX guns trade for crit bonuses.

Again I use the LB-20X range 5 skill module, but I was using that for the week previous to the patch with no problems.





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Edited by Lightfoot, 25 October 2014 - 08:55 AM.

[senaiboy]

I don't think critting engine does anything at the moment, certainly not kill you. You needed to damage the internal structure of the CT (non-XL) to kill them, not damage the engine.

http://mwomercs.com/...-a-brief-guide/

Quote

Currently, all engines have 15 points of health while all other items have 10, except for Gauss Rifles. The Gauss Rifle has been decreased to a health of 5 and all items will soon be reviewed as well.

Critical damage to the side torso hit boxes of XL Engines deals damage to the engine as a whole. However, it should be noted that, currently, critical damage to your engine will not disable it. This is likely to change when we do the pass on the health values.

Edited by senaiboy, 25 October 2014 - 08:59 AM.

[Lightfoot]

Okay. But the change of the LB-20X from pre-patch to post-patch is so much that you can't miss it, so I think it's a bug after the past 4 days of no obvious critical hits.

[senaiboy]

Quote

15 HP – Engine


Effect? Nothing. It does absolutely nothing, yet. A critically destroyed engine does NOT destroy you in game. The only way to 'kill' an opponent through their engine is to destroy the component it is housed in. For STD engines this is the Center Torso. For XL engines this is the left, center, and right torsos. Hopefully this clears confusion: Critically destroying an engine does not kill you in game.

If critical hits are not supposed to kill, it shouldn't be the reason why you are not killing the enemies as fast as pre-patch. Could it be hit registration issue? Unless you find that you're not critting the components (as in weapons, etc) now.

Either way, best just to submit a report to support and see what comes out of it.

Edited by senaiboy, 25 October 2014 - 09:17 AM.

[Lightfoot]

It's a bug related to this patch, most likely, not me. Critical hits kill with bonus critical damage. The LB-20X gets a large amount either in more chances or more damage per chance. Enough to make the LB-20X the top damage weapon on mechs with no armor and right now a UAC-20 is easily better, but was not last week.

All the theories about LB-X damage were interesting, but unless you were using one for several weeks as your main weapon you don't know what happened. I leveled my Storm Crow with one to Master almost exclusively, so alot of matches. It gave me an edge if I was the last of the mechs standing at the end, but was a drawback when the match would start. That's how LB-X works.




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Edited by Lightfoot, 25 October 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 24 October 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

Crits don't deal bonus damage, they damage internals IF there are any. ALso, 3 dead center hits is 60 damage, and that's if all 20 pellets hit the CT every single time. Coupled with the fact that orange can be anywhere from 75%-50%+ internal health, and you can see why you could sometimes kill them with 3, and other times, don't.

You do get extra damage due to PGI's stupidity.

Specifically if you succeed in getting a "Crit", you will deal 15% of that crit damage as extra damage.

Lets say an LBX cluster-shot....pellet? gets 1 damage as its crit and nails 2 crits. That's 2 * 15% = 0.6 extra damage for that one pellet's crit damage.

Now if a single shot AC/20 lands a single crit, that's 3 damage extra to the internal structure.

This system was implemented in 2013, and is on my list of 'really stupid ideas' as it naturally gives the most benefit to the most pinpoint, front-loaded damage weapons.

[Savage Wolf]

My experience is also that LBX ACs crit as much as they used to. Neither Clan or IS versions.

[Josef Koba]

I sometimes use a DW with two LB-20s and one LB-10. Only two matches in it since the patch and while I don't know how many crits it got, it did get me seven kills in those two matches. I'd hate to see the crit chance lessened, but it still seems pretty effective overall.

[IraqiWalker]

Platinum Spider, on 25 October 2014 - 12:09 AM, said:

Crits on LBX are supposed to do extra damage 14% chance for double, 8% to do quadruple, and 3% to do sextuple damage. Check LBX in smurfy.

Crits deal extra damage to the components. If there are no components, the crits don't actually happen.

Koniving, on 25 October 2014 - 03:37 PM, said:

You do get extra damage due to PGI's stupidity.

Specifically if you succeed in getting a "Crit", you will deal 15% of that crit damage as extra damage.

Lets say an LBX cluster-shot....pellet? gets 1 damage as its crit and nails 2 crits. That's 2 * 15% = 0.6 extra damage for that one pellet's crit damage.

Now if a single shot AC/20 lands a single crit, that's 3 damage extra to the internal structure.

This system was implemented in 2013, and is on my list of 'really stupid ideas' as it naturally gives the most benefit to the most pinpoint, front-loaded damage weapons.

That damage does not get added to the internal health of the section though. It only applies additional damage to the components, IF they exist there.

Crit weapons aren't designed to destroy mech sections fast, they're designed to kill internal components fast.

[Athalus]

Selfish, on 07 December 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Critical Hits and You - A Brief Guide

(...)

4. Critical Damage Transfer


Critical Damage Transfer is the newest addition to crits as of (6-8-13), and it's the third form of damage transfer to be added to the game. The esoteric difference from the former two is that Standard Damage Transfer (50% reduction per component) and Explosion Damage (See above) concerns a transfer of damage between components. Critical Damage Transfer is defined by damage transferring from the crit system back into standard damage—it all stays in the same component. Confused yet? Relax, it's fairly simple.

15% percent of the damage a crit deals to a component, regardless if it landed on an item, is also dealt to the Internal Structure of the component.

See? We got it! If not, let's look back at our example involving the 3x Crit with the AC/10. We are dealing 10-10-10 critical damage to the component. How much damage are we actually dealing to the component instead of the items within it? Well 15% multiplied by 10-10-10 is 1.5-1.5-1.5, or simply 4.5. You have just dealt 4.5 additional damage to the component hit with the AC/10 for a total of 14.5 damage. Best part? You still dealt 10-10-10 critical damage to items within the component.

(...)

[Koniving]

IraqiWalker, on 26 October 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Crits deal extra damage to the components. If there are no components, the crits don't actually happen.



That damage does not get added to the internal health of the section though. It only applies additional damage to the components, IF they exist there.

Crit weapons aren't designed to destroy mech sections fast, they're designed to kill internal components fast.

There's no need to do additional damage to the components. The components have 10 health. The example they used on that patch was an AC/20, and the 15% of additional damage is dealt directly to the inner structure of the mech (because some mechs had so much inner structure that it felt like they could survive everything even after losing their armor).

The meaningful weapons for this kind of damage are the pinpoint FLD weapons.
IS AC/20, Gauss rifle, IS AC/10, IS and Clan PPCs.

AC/20, 20 damage to your left torso without armor.
Say it does 2 crits.
Roll, lands on DHS. 20 damage to component (10 - 20 = less than zero), instant destruction.
Roll, lands on your AC/20. 20 damage (18 - 20 = less than zero), instant destruction.
2 crits, total 40 damage. 15% of that damage = 6 additional damage to internal structure.
Total damage to components: 40
Total damage to internal structure: 20 + 6 = 26.

There's absolutely no reason to add + 15% to crit damage, A large number of weapons will instant-kill any components.

However, the explaination from Thomas is that if you deal crit damage, take 15% of how much crit damage you've dealt, that is the additional damage you've done to internal structure.

It's been this way since around July 2013. (Edit: June 2013, my bad. Thanks Athalus.)

Edited by Koniving, 26 October 2014 - 06:15 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Koniving, on 26 October 2014 - 06:13 PM, said:

There's no need to do additional damage to the components. The components have 10 health. The example they used on that patch was an AC/20, and the 15% of additional damage is dealt directly to the inner structure of the mech (because some mechs had so much inner structure that it felt like they could survive everything even after losing their armor).

The meaningful weapons for this kind of damage are the pinpoint FLD weapons.
IS AC/20, Gauss rifle, IS AC/10, IS and Clan PPCs.

AC/20, 20 damage to your left torso without armor.
Say it does 2 crits.
Roll, lands on DHS. 20 damage to component (10 - 20 = less than zero), instant destruction.
Roll, lands on your AC/20. 20 damage (18 - 20 = less than zero), instant destruction.
2 crits, total 40 damage. 15% of that damage = 6 additional damage to internal structure.
Total damage to components: 40
Total damage to internal structure: 20 + 6 = 26.

There's absolutely no reason to add + 15% to crit damage, A large number of weapons will instant-kill any components.

However, the explaination from Thomas is that if you deal crit damage, take 15% of how much crit damage you've dealt, that is the additional damage you've done to internal structure.

It's been this way since around July 2013. (Edit: June 2013, my bad. Thanks Athalus.)

I stand corrected.

[151st Light Horse Regiment]

Nevermind crits, most of my LB20 shots pass straight through the target and cause 0 damage at all.