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Yet Another Ecm Whine


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#1 Barakus

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 10:50 PM

Russ and the team,

I think it is high time you guys addressed this broken system.

Until a proper fix can be implemented please reduce the protection bubble by at least 50%.

If you are not able or willing to make changes then allow at least one variant of each mech chassis to mount it.

I won't bother to rage about this in detail but I think ECM is the worst feature of this game. Nothing else comes close.

#2 DYSEQTA

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 11:16 PM

Considering that the new rewards system is encouraging the use of TAG and NARC more I think that that is highly unlikely.

#3 Barakus

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 01:39 AM

Well that is lovely. How about adding it to the matchmaker so we don't consistently see multiple ECM on one team against none on the other.

#4 Anarcho

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 01:47 AM

I said that before and I will say it here again... ECM the way it is right now is OK.

Just add a little more countermeasures:

1- PPCs, they already "jam" the ecm with one hit, make the ECM fry and stop working after number of hits by PPCs. I.E: that ecm raven got hit 5x by a PPC? It's ecm is dead now...

2- Make NARC work over ecm, somehow make the electronics in a narc missile to be powerful than an ECM, so lights with narcs can have a better role too.

3- Make ECM more expensive

4- Maybe, make ECM a module? I mean, a lot of gxp and a LOOOOOT of money to have one?


this way we don't have to re-imagine the whole thing....

#5 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:13 AM

I disagree Anarcho. ECM IS Over Powered. It does way more than it is supposed to, BUT I learned that if I don't use Streaks/LRMs I can pound a ECM Mech with direct fire pretty easy

#6 Jaeger Gonzo

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 04:38 AM

View PostAnarcho, on 25 October 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

I said that before and I will say it here again... ECM the way it is right now is OK.

Just add a little more countermeasures:

1- PPCs, they already "jam" the ecm with one hit, make the ECM fry and stop working after number of hits by PPCs. I.E: that ecm raven got hit 5x by a PPC? It's ecm is dead now...

2- Make NARC work over ecm, somehow make the electronics in a narc missile to be powerful than an ECM, so lights with narcs can have a better role too.

3- Make ECM more expensive

4- Maybe, make ECM a module? I mean, a lot of gxp and a LOOOOOT of money to have one?


this way we don't have to re-imagine the whole thing....

LOL
ECM is the worst crap that PGI has invented up to date. Its just making game worst, do not add absolutely nothing good to gameplay. Just annoy.

and you dont have to reimagine anything, everything is in source material

Edited by Jaeger Gonzo, 25 October 2014 - 04:47 AM.


#7 JohnnyWayne

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 04:48 AM

View PostJaeger Gonzo, on 25 October 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

LRM is the worst crap that PGI has invented up to date. Its just making game worst, do not add absolutely nothing good to gameplay. Just annoy.


FTFY.

Oh and... After all that time I came to realise that LRM have no way of ever beeing balanced in the current implementation in MWO. There are too many variables that make them OP or suck. Like ECM. Or: UAV, amount of LRM, spotter, indirect fire, movement of mechs (damage bonus by less spread on standing mechs).

All these variables make sure that LRM are either OP or UP in either combination of the situation. It is too unstable to balance. A complete revamp is needed.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 25 October 2014 - 04:51 AM.


#8 Jonny Slam

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 04:58 AM

View PostAnarcho, on 25 October 2014 - 01:47 AM, said:

I said that before and I will say it here again... ECM the way it is right now is OK.

Just add a little more countermeasures:

1- PPCs, they already "jam" the ecm with one hit, make the ECM fry and stop working after number of hits by PPCs. I.E: that ecm raven got hit 5x by a PPC? It's ecm is dead now...







As long as I can convince that Raven pilot to stand still for twenty seconds while my "new improved" PPC shot strolls across the map! :D

#9 Willard Phule

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 05:52 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 25 October 2014 - 02:13 AM, said:

I disagree Anarcho. ECM IS Over Powered. It does way more than it is supposed to, BUT I learned that if I don't use Streaks/LRMs I can pound a ECM Mech with direct fire pretty easy


You know, I really think it's closer to what the Angel system gives a little further down the line but, yeah, the way PGI is handling the issue is pretty lame. It's been a HUGE problem since I've been playing.....so much so, in fact, that they haven't released an ECM mech for a long time.

I've got to wonder if this is yet another in a long line of issues that cannot be dealt with due to either limitations of the Cryengine or the developer's ability to code. Remember, they had a HUGE problem with getting tech support from the Cryengine guys way back when, as well. I'm pretty sure there's a lot of things that both we and PGI wish they could do but simply can't because of that.

The question of adding ECM as a sorting factor for the Matchmaker has been requested ever since they slapped the matchmaker in as a "temporary fix." Granted, it's just one of several pieces of equipment that people have asked PGI to try to make even on teams....to no avail.

Personally, I could care less. Currently, the solo queue is overrun with LRM boats under ECM cover. I'm guessing it'll die down after this event. I just wish people would make the sacrifice and carry active probes. Sure, in group play, you don't need every mech in a lance to have one but....they're a team. The PUG is not. Ultimately, in the PUG, the only one that gives a crap about you is....you.

View PostJaeger Gonzo, on 25 October 2014 - 04:38 AM, said:

LOL
ECM is the worst crap that PGI has invented up to date. Its just making game worst, do not add absolutely nothing good to gameplay. Just annoy.

and you dont have to reimagine anything, everything is in source material


So, you think the source material should be followed as closely as possible with regard to equipment? I absolutely agree with you.

In fact, I can't wait until the day when PGI agrees with us as well. Then, I'll be able to slap ECM into any Omnimech I want because Pod space is Pod space.

#10 Kirkland Langue

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 07:11 AM

Make ECM a 10T module - then I will agree that it is fine.

#11 Glythe

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 07:47 AM

People determined a long time ago that more ECM on your team than the enemy is just as much of an advantage as all assaults vs all heavies.

They put in a weight based match maker a long time ago but they never put in ECM balance mechanics. What kind of BS is that?

#12 Willard Phule

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:27 AM

View PostGlythe, on 25 October 2014 - 07:47 AM, said:

People determined a long time ago that more ECM on your team than the enemy is just as much of an advantage as all assaults vs all heavies.

They put in a weight based match maker a long time ago but they never put in ECM balance mechanics. What kind of BS is that?


Keep in mind that play is completely different in the Solo queue versus the Group queue.

In the Group queue, you've got a small number of organized players...most with voice communications that have worked with each other before. In the Solo queue...not so much. Each team is basically a mob of 12 "1 man teams." Argue that as much as you want, but ultimately, the only person you're responsible for in the Solo queue is yourself.

If you've got, say, a 4 man team...they have the ability to coordinate between their builds. One guy brings ECM, one guy brings BAP/CAP, etc. In the Solo queue, the only way to make sure your team has ECM is to bring it yourself. That applies to everything. There's no way to second guess what your PUG teammates are bringing to the group. How many times have you been on a PUG team that's nothing but LRM boats...or snipers...or whatever. It happens. More often when there's some sort of event going on. It is what it is.

The downside is that PGI has been tweaking, fixing and aiming EVERYTHING they've done lately to the Group queue. Private matches, every "adjustment" made to weapons....hell, even the damn matchmaker was designed for the Group queue. The whole concept of "average Elo" for each team only makes sense on paper when you think of multiple premade groups complimenting each other as opposed to this "the better you are, the more you carry" crap in the Solo Queue. If there were, say, 4 Lords just PUGging one afternoon, you would expect them to be saddled with 8 other guys that are of a lesser quality to balance them against the other team. In theory. If, say, those 4 Lords were PUGging in the Solo queue...each one would end up with different "lesser quality" guys to even them out (the best would get the worst, etc) AND most of the time, in the Solo queue, we're not on voice comms.

#13 Nightshade24

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:37 AM

View PostDYSEQTA, on 24 October 2014 - 11:16 PM, said:

Considering that the new rewards system is encouraging the use of TAG and NARC more I think that that is highly unlikely.


Sadly the only bonus for narc that may apply is counter ecm (which was always there...) and "Narc kill" which is when someone dies while still narced....

#14 NovaFury

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:08 AM

I'm still of the mind they wanted World of Tanks' sighting system, but instead of going to the difficulty of implementing one, we got ECM.

#15 Foxfire

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:13 AM

I want it changed so that a real information warfare system can be implemented instead of this hodgepodge of 'x is a hard counter for y' that currently exists.

#16 Chronojam

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:15 AM

Let me take a moment to namedrop Roland and his ECM overhaul thread.

http://mwomercs.com/...cm-and-sensors/

Please scan through the whole thing as there are posts with additional discussion beyond the op itself, filling in some details not found in the first post.



#17 LORD TSARKON

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 10:22 AM

View PostBarakus, on 25 October 2014 - 01:39 AM, said:

Well that is lovely. How about adding it to the matchmaker so we don't consistently see multiple ECM on one team against none on the other.


Here is a Game(me solo drop) with 5 ECM enemy mechs against our team which had ZERO.... and we still won....
Its not the ultimate weapon in the game..... you still have to point and shoot and have decent cooperation with your teammates to ultimately win a game
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