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Rewards Rebalance Still Needed - Losses Are Too Low


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#1 Mawai

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 03:13 AM

Hi,

Just some feedback.

I just finished playing about 6 matches (OCT 25, 2014 ~3-4 AM PDT) ... took about an hour. Maybe I am terrible or just had bad luck but I lost all 6. I was playing a support kit fox with ECM ... staying with the assaults to provide fire support and ECM cover.

So ... net rewards? About 250k cbills and maybe 600 to 800 xp. Several of the matches were stomps. I am still working to get the Elite tier of skills unlocked ... even fast fire requires 6000xp.

Bottom line? When you lose the rewards are NOT sufficient. I wasn't even using consumables. If I had dropped a UAV in each match I would have netted zero. Even trying to level the mech and earn XP will take too long at this rate.

I haven't had enough wins to assess that side of the balance. The one win I had last night in the kit fox netted 135k before cbill bonus and about 700xp ... which I could have managed for a close loss in the previous rewards system.

I think you REALLY need to look at earnings and XP. A broader spread in rewards does NOT benefit your game. Really good players or those who figure out how to game the system laugh all the way to the bank ... they will have enough cbills that they won't need to spend MC. On the other hand, folks with earnings like I just walked away with in the last hour ... may just quit the game because it is frustrating to earn rewards at such a slow rate (and thus won't spend MC either).

P.S.

1) I have read on the forums that putting on tag/narc is the way to make cbills ... I don't know if it is accurate or a bug but if these weapon systems are generating disproportionate rewards it needs to be examined.

2) Some people are reporting even lower returns than I am ... it could be that they drop from the match when they die. How much of the rewards are actually being awarded if you drop from the match early? Do all the lance/protection/tag etc rewards get awarded whether you are in game at the end of the match or not? Some clarification might be required.

Edited by Mawai, 25 October 2014 - 03:15 AM.


#2 Ironwithin

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 03:25 AM

Putting on and using a TAG can indeed very easily double your earnings. Haven't tried a NARC yet.

#3 Wintersdark

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 06:39 AM

I found Loss rewards to be really great, far better than they were before.

The problem is that being ECM support doesn't have specific rewards, so while you provide a valid role you're not earning anything really when there's not many kills and whatnot.

In normal matches, though, I'm easily pulling 100-150k on losses, unless I died right at the beginning (and thus did nothing at all).

And I'm not "exploiting" TAG/NARC bonuses for extra earnings.

#4 senaiboy

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 08:35 AM

View PostWintersdark, on 25 October 2014 - 06:39 AM, said:

I found Loss rewards to be really great, far better than they were before.

The problem is that being ECM support doesn't have specific rewards, so while you provide a valid role you're not earning anything really when there's not many kills and whatnot.

In normal matches, though, I'm easily pulling 100-150k on losses, unless I died right at the beginning (and thus did nothing at all).

And I'm not "exploiting" TAG/NARC bonuses for extra earnings.


We must be playing different games. When you lose, your team typically kill 4 or less of the enemies. This mean you get less reward for damage or kills. Depending on how well you did with spots, TAG, NARC, and on a lesser extent lance formation and light/medium protection, this usually gives off around 40-80k.

Compared to previous system where even when you lose, you get 80-100k. How is it 'far better' than before?

#5 Wintersdark

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:17 AM

View Postsenaiboy, on 25 October 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:


We must be playing different games. When you lose, your team typically kill 4 or less of the enemies. This mean you get less reward for damage or kills. Depending on how well you did with spots, TAG, NARC, and on a lesser extent lance formation and light/medium protection, this usually gives off around 40-80k.

Compared to previous system where even when you lose, you get 80-100k. How is it 'far better' than before?
My losses are on average a lot closer than that. I'm still typically getting a couple kills, some assists, and a decent amount of damage.

Currently, its very, very rare for me to make less than 80k in a match, and even then only when I get ganked right at the start of the match.

#6 senaiboy

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:30 AM

There are still rather plenty one-sided match of 4-12 or worse though. 4 kills among 12 players, you'd either be lucky or aiming for the last hit to get more than a kill. However that leaves the rest of your team with even less kills to be spread among - hence less rewards for them.

I'm an average player - and I get around 60-90k for a loss and 100-250k for a win. It's a huge difference and punishes players too much for losing or making mistakes (one side has to lose for the other to win, no?)

#7 M0rpHeu5

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 09:56 AM

Forget losses, they should be low. Buff wins and make them count

#8 CSHubert

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:39 PM

Too low for losses I say. Its mostly PUG games that people, especially new players, get into. And the PUGs are very much random so you'll have half the players fighting for nothing and the other half fighting for a little more than that. Half of the time the players makes next to nothing and the other half a little more... If I was a new player I'd say "to hell with this..." and as a seasoned player Im about to

#9 Wintersdark

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:46 PM

I pull 80-100k on average losses. Hell:

Spoiler


It's not tough to get that. And this is without a mech bonus or premium time.

Hell, I did poorly and our team had all of 3-4 kills.

#10 Deathone

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 01:35 AM

@Wintersdark

Now play a medium or heavy mech without TAG, LRMS and Scouting abilities.

Scouting/TAGing and Killing/damaging generates a lot of income. Everything else is worse. Some of my mech builds are not worth to use anymore because i cannot do things with them that earn income with Reward 2.0. I am feeling pushed to use her mechs or premium time .. oh wait i need MC to buy hero mechs and premium time.

Pay2Win ... or Pay2BeNotFrustrated

#11 senaiboy

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 01:52 AM

That's not a very good example though. Scouting alone gave you 20k (that's 10 enemies, leaving only 2 for the other scouts in your team?). Without scouting (if some other light mechs are faster than you), you'll get 60k. See the problem?

Also, I'm using medium and heavy brawler mechs and that was where my 'average' earnings from a loss come from. On a different note, winning provided as much earnings as pre-patch (maybe slightly less). They just seemed to punish players more for losing.

Edited by senaiboy, 26 October 2014 - 01:58 AM.


#12 jackal404

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 06:24 AM

The biggest problem I see with the lower earnings for a loss is when a player is on a loosing streak. Currently, I'm on a 12 game loosing streak. I'm just an average or below average player. I'm working on basicing my first stormcrow, but with earning an average of about 25,000 cbills and 150 exp, this process will take a long, long time.

Since I only play about 25 matches a week, a streak like this totally ruins any motivation to continue playing.

Guess I need to trade out an ER Medium laser to a tag, and see if I can't start farming more money. It's a shame that a player has to look ways such as that to earn a decent amount of money in a match.

#13 Ironwithin

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 09:47 AM

View Postjackal404, on 26 October 2014 - 06:24 AM, said:

Guess I need to trade out an ER Medium laser to a tag, and see if I can't start farming more money. It's a shame that a player has to look ways such as that to earn a decent amount of money in a match.


Do it + buy a day of premium time when you're feeling like you're going to be playing a while and you will be swimming in CBills.

Also: If half or more of the playerbase suddenly equips TAGs on every 'mech they'll notice something isn't right. Wich will probably lead to a massive TAG-nerf (like reducing the range to 270m AND giving it 4heat/s AND linking it to every heat penalty-group). It's gonna be hilarious.

Edited by Ironwithin, 26 October 2014 - 09:47 AM.


#14 ReXX

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 09:51 AM

I'll have to agree. Most days I suffer a pretty harsh losing streak, with lance mates splitting and enemy team ganksquads galore. Today's been better balanced.

Losses are cripplingly low in returns, and whether or not I get to be on the winning side feels like luck.

Even with decent wins today, it feels like a crawl, thought. The game does not provide a rewarding experience at all when it comes to getting new mechs, new gear, and tinkering with them in the garage. I dread the UI and I dread the grind.

#15 Summon3r

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Posted 26 October 2014 - 10:20 AM

i like the system but on avg im finding the cbills down a far bit... did 952 dmg for a win in my Summoner Prime (invasion model) for 120k cbills :-/





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