23 replies to this topic

[Alexander MacTaggart]

So CASE prevents ammo explosion damage from propagating through your mech and totally destroying it. But does it 'work' even after the location it's in is destroyed?

For example, take my current AS7-S build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...397c21defb0d32f

Let's say I lose the left torso in a match, and then later in the match my left leg gets critically hit and the ammo in it goes up. Does the left torso CASE vent the damage even though the left torso is 'destroyed' already? Or does the ammo explosion ignore the CASE and propagate normally?

[Redshift2k5]

I... think so? But you'd probably need to load a private match and test that out.

[TheCaptainJZ]

That's a good question and not one I've ever seen asked before.

[Bloodweaver]

Wow, good question!

It should mitigate all damage that goes through the side torso. But if that torso is destroyed, the CASE is gone. So...???

[Limidas]

No, the leg is mounted on center torso so side torso has nothing to dó with it!

If the leg was conected to the side torso it would be destroyed just like the arm.

Edited by Limidas, 25 October 2014 - 09:46 AM.

[Edustaja]

Limidas, on 25 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

No, the leg is mounted on center torso so side torso has nothing to dó with it!

If the leg was conected to the side torso it would be destroyed just like the arm.

Legs are actually connected to side torsos by the damage transfer mechanism.

[sC4r]

ammo explosion always goes like this:
arm->side torso->center torso
leg->side torso
also when transfering the damage from one section to another the remaining damage is halved

thats a good question actually though case will remain very underwhelming so long as ammo explosion will remain rare like it is

[Redshift2k5]

Limidas, on 25 October 2014 - 09:42 AM, said:

No, the leg is mounted on center torso so side torso has nothing to dó with it!

If the leg was conected to the side torso it would be destroyed just like the arm.

Damage transfer alwys goes leg -> side -> ct.

some mech hitboxes have parts of the side torsos in the hips, others don't, but the damage transfer is always the same.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 25 October 2014 - 10:23 AM.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

sC4r, on 25 October 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

thats a good question actually though case will remain very underwhelming so long as ammo explosion will remain rare like it is

It occurred to me when my Atlas was destroyed by an ammo explosion; I don't think any of my other mechs have ever been destroyed that way, but none of them carry the sheer amount of ammo the Atlas does.

I'm pretty sure in table-top rules CASE still works once you've lost the side, I just wasn't sure how it was implemented in MWO.

Edited by Alexander MacTaggart, 25 October 2014 - 10:22 AM.

[Limidas]

8/ that just can't be right!
I mean if the leg was mounted on the side torso, Logic would dictate that you lost it just like the arm if your side torso was destroyed... Right???

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Limidas, on 25 October 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

8/ that just can't be right!
I mean if the leg was mounted on the side torso, Logic would dictate that you lost it just like the arm if your side torso was destroyed... Right???

It's a hold-over from the table-top damage/hit location rules. There was a specific order damage transferred from one location to another. So if you rolled a hit on the right arm, but the right arm had already been destroyed, then you did damage to the right torso. Then after the torso damage went to the center torso.

MWO ammo explosions still use that damage transfer order, which is arms/legs -> side torso -> center torso.

[LauLiao]

This is actually a really good question and I'm going to have to dig out my TT rules for clarification on how it's supposed to work. In MWO your guess is as good as mine. I don't know that TT ever actually clarified this situation since I can't think of any stock loadouts with ammo in the legs... Maybe the Crusaders? I know they had the unusual leg mounted missile launchers, but I don't remember where they stored the ammo right now.

[5LeafClover]

A related question:

Gauss rifle in an arm explodes, side torso has case, does ST take damage?

[LauLiao]

5LeafClover, on 25 October 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

A related question:

Gauss rifle in an arm explodes, side torso has case, does ST take damage?

Yes. CASE prevents damage from traveling an FURTHER than it's location. It does not prevent damage TO it's location. So in your scenario yes the ST would take damage, and if there was any damage left over from destroying that section the rest would blow out the back. Now if you had been in a Clan mech that has integrated CASE (and can mount it in the arms) then the damage would be limited to the arm.

[Redshift2k5]

5LeafClover, on 25 October 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

A related question:

Gauss rifle in an arm explodes, side torso has case, does ST take damage?

for an Inner sphere mech with regular CASE, yes, the side torso still takes damage.

For a Clan mech there is free weightless CASE in every section, so the arm contains the explosion and the ST takes none.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

From my understanding.. equipping a CASE in any part of the 'mech with ammunition along with it in that same location.. if that location is compromised and the ammunition explodes, the CASE will not allow the damage to travel outside that location.

"CASE, or Cellular Ammunition Storage Equiment is a system of storing ammution in a Battlemech using strategically placed vents and weak points in the ammunition bins. These additions work to funnel premature detonations of the stored ammunition away from vital points in the mech, such as heat sinks, the reactor powerplant, or even the cockpit. In some cases, the CASE system can even isolate ammution detonation from other ammunition stores, for example saving an SRM rack from a detonating autocannon store."

Not sure how the last part works 'cept if you have CASE paired up with MIssile Ammo in your LT and CASE paired up with Ballistic Ammo in your RT if your RT suffers from an ammunition explosion, the critical hit doesn't transfer over to your LT.

As for simply having CASE in a location without ammunition in that same location.. I don't believe it prevents damage from Ammo Explosions in other locations to that location the CASE is in.

Either way.. if you have a lot of ammunition and you don't want anyone to get lucky by inflicting a critical hit to any of your unused ammo to cause your 'mech's destruction.. it's wise to equip CASE to contain the damage.

Aside from that.. the only dumb question is one never asked.

[Koniving]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 08:41 AM, said:

So CASE prevents ammo explosion damage from propagating through your mech and totally destroying it. But does it 'work' even after the location it's in is destroyed?

For example, take my current AS7-S build:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...397c21defb0d32f

Let's say I lose the left torso in a match, and then later in the match my left leg gets critically hit and the ammo in it goes up. Does the left torso CASE vent the damage even though the left torso is 'destroyed' already? Or does the ammo explosion ignore the CASE and propagate normally?

In theory, yes it should. In practice... good question. The problem is you won't know if the ammo exploded as the game won't tell you. But if you're morbidly curious, without case it'd have its damage reduced by 75% (50% of 50%) when going to your CT through the ST from the leg.

With CASE, in theory, you won't experience any damage in the instance you provided.

Then again ammo explosions are so impossibly rare... that I haven't encountered them in a long time due to the way I stuff my mechs. I'm eagerly awaiting the crit health overhaul they mentioned as I see it as a far better way to balance things.

For example, a Clan DHS is smaller, more difficult to crit, but in being smaller on tabletop, it's disabled on a single crit (takes two crits to disable an IS DHS). An IS PPC is disabled on two crits. A Clan ER PPC is disabled on one crit. (Keep in mind it's a 1/3rd more difficult to actually crit the Clan ER PPC). But the point is they have less health.

Anyway. Good luck, perhaps it's worth testing. But in theory the answer should be yes unless the CASE itself is actually destroyed by crit-damage.

[Alexander MacTaggart]

Koniving, on 25 October 2014 - 12:52 PM, said:

In theory, yes it should. In practice... good question. The problem is you won't know if the ammo exploded as the game won't tell you.

It most definitely does if the explosion kills you. You get the big red banner "Killed by: Ammunition Explosion"

I wasn't aware that ammo only had a 1.4% chance to cook off, that would explain why I never noticed it before I was given the new Atlas (which has a ridiculous amount of ammo crammed into it compared to my other mechs) but if it really is that low of a chance it might be worth using the ton of CASE on it fror something else and just praying to the PRNG gods...

[Uklistan]

Dear PGI,

Answer?

[Koniving]

Alexander MacTaggart, on 25 October 2014 - 01:02 PM, said:

It most definitely does if the explosion kills you. You get the big red banner "Killed by: Ammunition Explosion"

I wasn't aware that ammo only had a 1.4% chance to cook off, that would explain why I never noticed it before I was given the new Atlas (which has a ridiculous amount of ammo crammed into it compared to my other mechs) but if it really is that low of a chance it might be worth using the ton of CASE on it fror something else and just praying to the PRNG gods...

When it does blow, the only way I know is the damage I received through armor. I usually don't die. You don't get the indications you did in closed beta. The surging, brewing popcorn effect with vibrations within the mech until you hear the chain of explosions inside... that really let you know that it was inevitably gonna kill you.

Now.. Boom. That's it. And half the time you don't hear it.