2522 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Vassago is saying more DOTA 2/LOL and less Nexon. I understand though and I do hope the game goes in the direction where new players feel welcome and rewarded enough to stick around while PGI still earns enough to keep the servers running and expand.

The mere fact that we are a sci-fi game makes it harder by default to become big. Fantasy is where it's at. The game needs to be way more accommodating to new players to make them stay and eventually convert.

[Sjorpha]

Vassago Rain, on 26 October 2014 - 06:51 AM, said:

Again, why is it necessary to learn to abuse mechanics/game quirks to get a functional robot up and running?

Why? Because the game design is lacking so you're forced to do it. I agree that sucks, I'm on your side of that argument.

Is my advice still useful and viable and saves some grindy pain for newbies happening on this thread? I believe so.

Don't see a contradiction there, do you?

[Mystere]

KinsonRavenlock, on 26 October 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

All I'm seeing with those numbers is an incentive to either play a 30% cbill bonus variant with premium time if I'm poor but enjoy the game.
Or just buying the mechs outright if I'm more of an instant gratification kind of person.

People seem to conveniently forget these options when the subject of grind/earnings gets talked about. Not everyone goes in an F2P game with zero intent to pay for anything, even if just in the beginning. There are those who actually perform time-motion-money analyses and act accordingly.

I'm here to play a game to relax and enjoy, not get a second job via grinding for resources. So I act accordingly. YMMV of course.

Edited by Mystere, 26 October 2014 - 07:08 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Ultimatum X, on 26 October 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Serious questions, no BS:

• How many total mechs do you feel players need to play the game?
  
• How many mechs + upgrades do you feel players should be able to attain per month?

• How do you create incentive for players to buy premium if they can get all of that easily?

These are real questions developers need to answer, what are your real answers to them?


Because every time someone provides a counterpoint, you simply move the goal posts. So prove that you are here to actually help the game and not just use the forums as a podium for your upset.



So show us all that you have a concept worked out that balances:

• Players who can play for 7 hours a day and wish to pay nothing
  
• Players who have limited time, but don't mind buying mech packs or premium time
  
• Players who are in the middle of those two groups and have some time and some money to invest, but not a lot of both

They should have access to at least one of every weight class, so they can play in all basic arenas of the game.
They need an easier path. Tutorials, documentation, less focus on the grind, teaching them how to use the mechlab, a UI that's not awful, and some kind of in-game social features, so they can find people to play with.

In case you didn't know, and I know a lot of you don't know this, the only reason me and many other forumwarriors have returned to active posting are because Russ invited us back.

Rather than this ultra grindy c-bill quest, and 3 of each variant to 'unlock the hidden potential' of your robot, they need to make it so having X of a class of robots gives you Y bonus to all other robots of that class, similar to how it'd work in diablo 2, where buying earlier 'basic' abilities gives a small boost to later abilities, thus not rendering the basic ones worthless filler you simply want to get out of the way. Now suddenly it's not something you HAVE to do, but a challenge and something you WANT to do.

Also, there was also absolutely no reason to price clan robots the way they did, and it was quite obviously done to make old timey veterans like me deplete our c-bills.

[Xetelian]

Ultimatum X, on 26 October 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Serious questions, no BS:

• How many total mechs do you feel players need to play the game?
  
• How many mechs + upgrades do you feel players should be able to attain per month?

• How do you create incentive for players to buy premium if they can get all of that easily?

These are real questions developers need to answer, what are your real answers to them?


Because every time someone provides a counterpoint, you simply move the goal posts. So prove that you are here to actually help the game and not just use the forums as a podium for your upset.



So show us all that you have a concept worked out that balances:

• Players who can play for 7 hours a day and wish to pay nothing
  
• Players who have limited time, but don't mind buying mech packs or premium time
  
• Players who are in the middle of those two groups and have some time and some money to invest, but not a lot of both

3 of each weight class. For switching between with dropship weight limits in mind.

[Motroid]

Vassago Rain, on 26 October 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

Which are both predatory tactics, and still don't make things fun, or bring in new players.

It's not 2012 anymore. I've gone from one of the most heavy users, with hours spent playing every night of the week, to playing on weekends and patchdays, to now patchdays and special weekends, and then only an hour or two at a time.



If your most hardcore players are abandoning you, what does that say about the game's new player retention? People deserve more than the choice of grinding weeks for the monthly c-bill mech, versus buying it outright with money.

There's a lot of youtube buzz and internet buzz in general about how broken F2P and early access games are. The fad's dying out already, after a mere two years.

Sorry but "free to play is here to stay". It has been around for nearly a decade now (respectivly Asian grinders).
There certainly are better examples of free to play games than MW:O but tbh most free to play games do it a lot worse.
So quit the bitching and bringing up 2012 because this game and its gamedesign are a good example of how games nowadays work and is actually a step ahead of many other games.
If you take a good hard look you will see that it is designed to create revenue and NOT for player retention. They didn't even try to reach out to new players, all they do since years is to milk the old school battletech fans with a lot of disposable income.

And once after CW is implemented and they are heading for a steam release with global server structure and so on the will change their stance and try to be more appealing to new players.

[Vassago Rain]

Also, on the topic of premium time, it currently gives a 50% boost to income, and the base income is so low, you're essentially getting nothing for your dollar.

Other games have their pretend-subs give out 100% or 200% of a base income that's not the modern day equivalent of peanuts. MWO is essentially a relic these days.

Modernize, adapt, grow.

[Bront]

As I said in my other thread, there are several reasons to raise CBill earnings.

1) Encourage free players to stay - Nothing is as demoralizing as realizing the unreasonable amount of time it will take to grind up to owning a mastered mech with all the modules. Being able to earn stuff keeps most people playing.

2) Converting free players to paid players - Mech bays are cheap, and if you need them regularly due to earnings, you'll find people buying them. Not only that, but the more mechs you own, the more you're likely to not want them all green with the default camo.

3) Keeping existing players - Even if the money well has run dry on a paying player, players playing the game provides content to other users in a PvP game.

4) Building goodwill - PGI could sure use it at times.

Raising CBill earnings may dip into PT (though I'm more likely to buy PT when earnings are higher, so it might not) and CBill regular mech sales, but Heroes will still be popular, and mech packs are mostly uneffected by CBill earnings due to the good deals they provide.

That said, the new rewards may have helped a bit.

[Sjorpha]

Vassago Rain, on 26 October 2014 - 07:03 AM, said:

Also, there was also absolutely no reason to price clan robots the way they did, and it was quite obviously done to make old timey veterans like me deplete our c-bills.

I agree with most of what you say, but when it comes to the clan mechs, the lack of need for upgrades combined with the possibility to sell all but one variant without losing possibilities ends up much cheaper than any of the IS mechs, at least the ones that needs XL engines. I don't really see what's so expensive about them, it's a hefty upfront cost but not a huge net cost in the end.

Sure I'd like everything to be a bit cheaper, and the earnings a bit higher, but I'd still say the clan mechs are the most reasonably priced items in the game actually, while the unreasonable ones are xl engines, IS upgrades and modules.

Another thing that really helped me has been watching the sales and waiting for my mechs be half price. Got all the stormcrows last week and my final shadowhawk. There's also some savings to find in selling of redundant standard engines and stock equipment to afford the mechs on sale, and then selling the redundant equipment on those. Just saying there are hidden savings as well as hidden costs, being fair is mentioning both.

I still agree the new user experience is super bad and needs fixing.

Edited by Sjorpha, 26 October 2014 - 07:18 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Motroid, on 26 October 2014 - 07:08 AM, said:

Sorry but "free to play is here to stay". It has been around for nearly a decade now (respectivly Asian grinders).
There certainly are better examples of free to play games than MW:O but tbh most free to play games do it a lot worse.
So quit the bitching and bringing up 2012 because this game and its gamedesign are a good example of how games nowadays work and is actually a step ahead of many other games.
If you take a good hard look you will see that it is designed to create revenue and NOT for player retention. They didn't even try to reach out to new players, all they do since years is to milk the old school battletech fans with a lot of disposable income.

And once after CW is implemented and they are heading for a steam release with global server structure and so on the will change their stance and try to be more appealing to new players.

F2P is dying very quickly. It's being replaced by player funded projects like elite, starcitizen, heavy gear, actual high skill new generation fighting games, and a return to old buy to play games.

No, I don't care what the asians do. This is the west, and I'm playing on PC. Not on cellphones.

Unless they actually modernize everything, MWO releasing on steam would end up just like when hawken released on steam.

[KraftySOT]

Vassago Rain, on 26 October 2014 - 05:52 AM, said:

like tears in rain.

I just lost it here.



Rutger approves of this post.

[Elizander]

I also have to make this clear for those who are reading the thread to see where some people are coming from.

Whales are good. They have lots of money and they throw it at the company. Keeping the whales happy is a good thing. Now those whales have friends. We all know that those friends might be dolphins, minnow and most will be non-payers.

Now a whale player will not see his friend as a non-payer like a company will, they see them as... their friend. Someone they enjoy spending time with and someone they wish would go play this nice robot game with them. If the game is not friendly to F2P players and new players, these friends disappear, leaving the whale alone with no one to play with. It's a common story here on the forums.

Why do I always drop solo? My friends aren't here anymore.

While I continue to play, others won't. PGI has the tough job of keeping the whales AND their F2P friends happy.

Edited by Elizander, 26 October 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Sjorpha, on 26 October 2014 - 07:13 AM, said:

I agree with most of what you say, but when it comes to the clan mechs, the lack of need for upgrades combined with the possibility to sell all but one variant without losing possibilities ends up much cheaper than any of the IS mechs, at least the ones that needs XL engines. I don't really see what's so expensive about them, it's a hefty upfront cost but not a huge net cost in the end.

Sure I'd like everything to be a bit cheaper, and the earnings a bit higher, but I'd still say the clan mechs are the most reasonably priced items in the game actually, while the unreasonable ones are xl engines, IS upgrades and modules.

It's the base cost of clan mechs.

You pay at the very least 17x3 million to master daishis, while to master atlases, you only need to pay 9x3 million, and if you already own a 350 engine from earlier, you can reuse that in your new robots, further bringing down costs, while the clan mechs will have hardwired engines you can't reuse, and must buy with each purchase. With the atlas examples, you're also not gonna put endo and other upgrades on all three, but only the one you actually intend to keep and play.

Clans are priced far, far out of reach of most freeplayers.

[TheKIps]

Out of curiosity and thinking that with such inflated grind PGI had reasonably priced cash shop deals i went in search.

No. They want $30 for THREE mechs. $10 a mech! FOR THREE MECHS.

I can buy 3 games from steam for the same price as the Hunchback mech pack. and that Mech Pack is apperently a "good deal".

Total garbage. $10 for the lot maybe, $5 for the lot, definitely.

I just cant believe how absurd these prices are this is really some of the worst pricing ive seen this side of EA.

[Vassago Rain]

Elizander, on 26 October 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

I also have to make this clear for those who are reading the thread to see where some people are coming from.

Whales are good. They have lots of money and they throw it at the company. Keeping the whales happy is a good thing. Now those whales have friends. We all know that those friends might be dolphins, minnow and most will be non-payers.

Now a whale player will not see his friend as a non-payer like a company will, they see them as... their friend. Someone they enjoy spending time with and someone they wish would go play this nice robot game with them. If the game is not friendly to F2P players and new players, these friends disappear, leaving the whale alone with no one to play with. It's a common story here on the forums.

Why do I always drop solo? My friends aren't here anymore.

While I continue to play, others won't. PGI has the tough job of keeping the whales AND their F2P friends happy.

I'm in the same position.



It's a very bad feel.

[Mystere]

TheKIps, on 26 October 2014 - 07:19 AM, said:

Out of curiosity and thinking that with such inflated grind PGI had reasonably priced cash shop deals i went in search.

No. They want $30 for THREE mechs. $10 a mech! FOR THREE MECHS.

I can buy 3 games from steam for the same price as the Hunchback mech pack. and that Mech Pack is apperently a "good deal".

Total garbage. $10 for the lot maybe, $5 for the lot, definitely.

I just cant believe how absurd these prices are this is really some of the worst pricing ive seen this side of EA.

The problem though is that those $10 Steam games are ones that I do not want to play at all. Or they are games that are 2+ years old and I have already played them when they first came out.

[Vassago Rain]

Mystere, on 26 October 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

The problem though is that those $10 Steam games are ones that I do not want to play at all. Or they are games that are 2+ years old and I have already played them when they first came out.

I paid 4.95 for KOF 13, 9 for street fighter 4's ultra upgrade, and 15 for SF4 initially. Crysis 3 regularly goes for 10 dollars on origin, and most sales, it's less than 5 dollars.

Counter-strike global offensive is 14 dollars right now.

[TheKIps]

Mystere, on 26 October 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

The problem though is that those $10 Steam games are ones that I do not want to play at all. Or they are games that are 2+ years old and I have already played them when they first came out.

And your point is? That youre rich? okay. Do you have anything to actually comment on the value of the mech packs? That was probably one of the least constructive posts in this thread.

Edited by TheKIps, 26 October 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[Pale Jackal]

Vassago Rain, on 26 October 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

Also, on the topic of premium time, it currently gives a 50% boost to income, and the base income is so low, you're essentially getting nothing for your dollar.

Other games have their pretend-subs give out 100% or 200% of a base income that's not the modern day equivalent of peanuts. MWO is essentially a relic these days.

Modernize, adapt, grow.

I agree, premium time should be +100% or +200%. Make me WANT to spend $10 a month on that, PGI. At +200% I would probably buy it whenever I am playing regularly.

Currently, I value a month of premium time at $5 because I refuse to value a million C-bills at more than 16 or 25 cents... if I value it at 50 cents, for instance, I'm going to be annoyed every time I consider buying a second copy of a module.

At +200%, and say I earn 1 million C-bills per day, that's an extra 60 million C-bills... 16 cents per million C-bills? Perfect. Even if I am not playing a lot, that's still definitely worth it.

At 50%, you would have to play a lot of MWO to make premium time worth it. It's often better just to spend that MC on a hero 'mech which is inherently ~8 million C-bills, plus the permanent C-bill boost.

Premium time should at least be +100%. I might actually buy some when I'm playing heavily, then.

Edited by Pale Jackal, 26 October 2014 - 07:40 AM.

[GalmOne]

I think a good option should be the possibility to buy a stripped mech
Doing so reduces the cost considerable ( i think 1.5m even for a heavy mechs chassis) and simultaneusly gives the player constant self made goals, like: " now i need 3m for that engine" or "i need 600k for that weapon" so that he can slowly build it from scratches and see it take form

Engines are actualy the most expensive part of a mech, i know you can buy one and refit it to others but the cost itself is like 60% of the mech cost (with endo and DHS), gifting one such XL engine to new players, combined with the possibility of buying stripped chassis could boost tremendously the impact the game as to newer players

And about Double Heat Sinks, it feels too much like a forced upgrade that has tremendous costs and repurcussions for your mech while i do like Endo and Ferro being cheaper and feeling more like a sidegrade (not an obligation but a good way to boost your mech's performance)
There's just too much of a difference between single and double heatsinks and i don't particularly like the imbalance it implies