20 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

As we all may know and if you do not well, i am a light mech pilot activist. Having seen a preview of some of the mechs in action (NGNG Previews) I am concerned for us lights. Now I will wholeheartedly admit we need to wait and see. However I was concerned about the light play before the quirks and I am even more concerned now. The game has consistently pushed lights into the ground for some time now. I feel as though these quirks (While many mechs did need help) will be so significant that the light population will dwindle even more. Even some of the quirks that the lights are getting will not allow them to compete. If you buff everything then everything stays at the same level

So I am just stirring the pot here and asking what other light pilots think about the quirks and some of the vids that have come out? we have the numbers now what do we think will happen with us?

Edited by Darian DelFord, 30 October 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[Bigbacon]

i am also concerned...

we might get some extra punch but machine gun LBXs, ACs, and what not are going to make it much tougher on us. rate of fire is going to get us i think.

[Foxfire]

The issue is with the fundamental design of game mechanics that makes the Armor vs Speed tradeoff greatly favored towards Armor.

[beerandasmoke]

If the quirks go into effect then brawler lights like the ember and jenner are going to have a rough time. Peek and poke mechs like the raven and cicada will be fine since IS cant bring that ROF too bear.

[Kanatta Jing]

Commandos and Locusts are going to have some ridiculous damage boosts.

[Y E O N N E]

Locusts and Commandos might also get rolled by massed fire from high-RoF LB-10X, AC/5, and AC/2.

We'll see. Could turn out fine, could be freakishly lopsided.

[Kanatta Jing]

More damage per ton means that armor is less effective per ton.

Higher rate of fire may negate speed. It may in many cases lead to greater amounts of spray and pray rather then true aiming.

Higher rate of fire doesn't negate surprise. Infact it greatly boosts it. Speed compliments positioning compliments surprise.

[Elizander]

Darian DelFord, on 30 October 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

As we all may know and if you do not well, i am a light mech pilot activist. Having seen a preview of some of the mechs in action (NGNG Previews) I am concerned for us lights. Now I will wholeheartedly admit we need to wait and see. However I was concerned about the light play before the quirks and I am even more concerned now. The game has consistently pushed lights into the ground for some time now. I feel as though these quirks (While many mechs did need help) will be so significant that the light population will dwindle even more. Even some of the quirks that the lights are getting will not allow them to compete. If you buff everything then everything stays at the same level

So I am just stirring the pot here and asking what other light pilots think about the quirks and some of the vids that have come out? we have the numbers now what do we think will happen with us?

Those rapid fire dual AC5s are gonna rip you a new one.

[MonkeyCheese]

Darian DelFord, on 30 October 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

If you buff everything then everything stays at the same level

While that is true and IS lights will still be at the bottom in the current mixed battles these quirks only for IS mechs not clan mechs, the locusts and commandos should shine going 170kph with their new weapon buffs when the IS vs Clan battles come round for community warfare as currently their closest real threats are the the under armored and underguned mist lynx going 124.7kph and the Ice Ferret going 142.5kph. We still dont know how big or small these mechs are going to be and the quality of their hitboxes.

Edited by MonkeyCheese, 30 October 2014 - 08:15 PM.

[Tezcatli]

So what are you suggesting? Should lights get extra buffs just for being lights?

[Karl Marlow]

Armor doesn't trump speed. In this game, and any game for that matter, The closer you are the more important speed and maneuverability is over Armor. If you can get both then great but most games are balanced around the Armor/speed dynamic. When you are close to the enemy Tracking becomes a factor if you are close. If you can't outpace their targeting then you will take the full brunt of their damage. On the flip side if oyu are far away it is very easy to track someone while you are facing diminishing returns on your damage output which makes armor much more valuable.

So because Lights are the fastest and most manuverable mechs in the game they work extremely weel at brawling ranges and tend to be food for anything at range. This is why the Jenners and Embers outperform right now. Their good builds favor the brawl. 6xML's or 4xml's and 4xMG's. With the new quirks the light mechs that are going to stand out are the ones who have their brawling ability increased. Those that favor Long range are going to continue to be food.

[The Boz]

Foxfire, on 30 October 2014 - 06:02 PM, said:

The issue is with the fundamental design of game mechanics that makes the Armor vs Speed tradeoff greatly favored towards Armor.

Incorrect. The tradeoff is not between armor and speed (because speed gives you TONS more survivability than armor), but between speed and firepower.

[YueFei]

I don't think that rate-of-fire buffs change the game much for Light mechs. If you're in enemy's crosshairs long enough that the rate-of-fire buffs actually contribute significantly to killing you faster, you're probably doing it wrong anyways.

I do think they should get rid of the legged movement mechanics and revert back to the way it used to be, 50% throttle, and none of this stunlock shenanigans where you're stuck at 15 kph for 5 seconds every time you get grazed by 1 tick of a small laser at maximum range.

When you're stuck moving so slowly that you can't even rotate away from a Dire Whale, what's the point. Yes, a Light mech at 75 kph is alot easier to hit, but at least being able to continue limping away at 75kph gives the guy a chance to dash into cover before the next salvo of weapons fire wrecks him. As it is now, you get legged, and unless you were already flying through the air at 150kph on jump jets and have a chance at landing behind cover, you're just totally boned.

[Eboli]

To me I tbink that a light pilot will need to ensure that they expose themselves for even less time as there will be a greater chance for even more damage to be dealt to them because of greater weapon range and cooldown.

Brawler mechs will need to get in and out faster and basically need to be more cautious and sneekier. I think there may be a drop in light pilot numbers as things get tougher.

Long range, sneeky mechs get improved functionality with improved ranges and cooldown.

We will likely see a few new weapon loadouts on various mechs and hopefully a bit more variety of light mechs on the field.

We may also need to have a good look a enemy mechoadouts as well to ensure we know what we are getting into before making an attack run.

Cheers,
Eboli.

[NextGame]

I think its rather clear that PGI know that they need to do something with lights but haven't been sure of what for some time. It's evident by the fewer chassis, no Flea (MASC) and the weird slower clan lights thing.

I think the default go to answer is make them faster, but the engineering of the game isn't really suited for that.

More survivability just results in a whine fest (see the great spider hitbox calamity).

Adding light mechs that have high firepower simply invalidates existing lights in terms of viability.

Pushing lights towards a specific role doesn't really work either because of map design not really promoting effective scouting, as well as arguments around ECM etc.


Not sure theres a good answer to it all beyond token gestures such as balancing reward to favour players playing less popular weight classes, but I can see light mechs continuing to suffer for some time.

Edited by NextGame, 31 October 2014 - 01:03 AM.

[Darian DelFord]

NextGame, on 31 October 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

I think its rather clear that PGI know that they need to do something with lights but haven't been sure of what for some time. It's evident by the fewer chassis, no Flea (MASC) and the weird slower clan lights thing.

I think the default go to answer is make them faster, but the engineering of the game isn't really suited for that.

More survivability just results in a whine fest (see the great spider hitbox calamity).

Adding light mechs that have high firepower simply invalidates existing lights in terms of viability.

Pushing lights towards a specific role doesn't really work either because of map design not really promoting effective scouting, as well as arguments around ECM etc.


Not sure theres a good answer to it all beyond token gestures such as balancing reward to favour players playing less popular weight classes, but I can see light mechs continuing to suffer for some time.

Said it better than I could.

[Viges]

The main role for lights now is just scouting (pretty much useless in pugs) and covering the assaults. So be ready to see less than 2% of lights in queue constantly soon

[Darian DelFord]

Viges, on 31 October 2014 - 05:54 AM, said:

The main role for lights now is just scouting (pretty much useless in pugs) and covering the assaults. So be ready to see less than 2% of lights in queue constantly soon

Sure the assault mechs love that to

[Joe Mallad]

The problem with lights right now is that their biggest advantage... Speed, has been capped.

The game can't keep up with multiple fast light mechs zooming around and so until PGI can figure out how to fix the stability of things "mostly light fast mechs" causing the game to go into a coma, their biggest advantage, speed which should be their biggest offensive and defensive advantage, just isn't there.

But keep in mind...the slower light brawlers like most clan lights and now the Panther or the existing commando and so on, were designed to brawl with other light mechs and the slower mediums. People taking these mechs an trying to brawl with the heavies and assaults are just asking for a quick death.

But again, until PGI can figure out how to keep the game from crashing and going ape **** because it can't handle fast movie objects, lights just will never be what they are meant to be. They need to keep moving to survive and harass, plain and simple.

[Viges]

Darian DelFord, on 31 October 2014 - 05:56 AM, said:

Sure the assault mechs love that to

DireWhale is looking for ecm umbrella musical