19 replies to this topic

[All iN]

I was trying to get back to the game, but this is beyond ridiculous. It was bad half a year ago, but now it's just borderline stupid. How is it possible, with ANY ELO rating based matchmaking, that most games end up being 0-12 1-12 or MAYBE (2-4)-12 at best? Even if by some lucky smile of RNG gods I'm tossed into a group of people stacked together, this is no fun, this is no fight.

Playing at evening or night is a joke festival, where every game is a roflstomp, you can't do NOTHING, you can learn nothing, you can test nothing. All you can do is serve as Cbills platter for your ass handed to enemy team.

I don't mind losing, but HOW any RATING BASED system can be producing so bad effects?
Not to mention insanely coordinated teams that seem like ESL MASTAH1337Noscope360L337 pro gamers agaisnt trial mechs that don't even know the map?

Sure, new people are ok, bus this?

Does anyone have something useful to say, some clarity to give? Just please stick "run with a lance" to yourself. Not everyone has time for guild play, hence SOLO queue, and that's the problem.

I know, team based game and all that - I have NOTHING against coordination and teamplay, I mind feeding stacked teams free wins due to a fact matchmaking can't handle simple comparsion.

Edited by All iN, 30 October 2014 - 07:19 PM.

[Tesunie]

This doesn't seem as much a question about MM as it is more a rant about losing matches.

As far as match maker goes, it creates teams trying to balance tonnage in a 3/3/3/3 system when it can, and even when it can't it still tries to balance the tonnage/weight classes in the match. Then, on top of that, it also tries to balance people's Elo scores on the team, as in each team ending with the same, or close to the same, Elo team score. (Elo is a score based on many factors that is assigned to every player in the game. Better skill typically means better Elo.)

As far as "the rant about loosing", we all have had spells of this. There are ways you can improve yourself and the team, but with PUG play, it's still going to be a bit random. One easy suggestion is to talk to your team. Provide advice and whatever plan of action you can think of. Suggest courses of action and strategy to your team. Beyond even that, another piece of advice is to stay near teammates and support them as much as you can. Shoot what they shoot. Move with them, not against them. If someone in a larger mech with more weapons is behind you, try not to block their shots, they can do more damage. UAV modules, though expensive, can also be of great help to your team, even if they don't have LRMs. It can provide some vital information about the enemy positions.

There are so many different things one can do to improve themselves, and their team/teamwork, I can't exactly go into all of it in a simple single post.

As a final note: Just please stick "run with a lance" to yourself.
Your remark here in an incorrect view. Running with your lance is not just a "team play" or "group up" concept. The concept is to work with your team. This can be done in the solo queue, and has nothing to do with guild play/group queue...
This is a team based game. Try to work on your intuitive team play skills. Working with your team, even in solo queue, is very important.

[All iN]

Quote

This can be done in the solo queue, and has nothing to do with guild play/group queue...

By no means I say this about in-game teamplay. I was referring to "guild thing" of mmo's that I left behind good 7 years ago after 10 years of it.
And no, I don't mind losing if the fight was even remotely balanced, like, any fight happened, not just walk-over instagibs.

I appriciate the tips, but as I was closed beta tester of this game, played every single other MW game, things you say, although true, won't help me out.

And as you surely know, most times no one listens or even looks at the map, but that's a different story.

Edited by All iN, 30 October 2014 - 07:35 PM.

[Tesunie]

All iN, on 30 October 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

I appriciate the tips, but as I was closed beta tester of this game, played every single other MW game, things you say, although true, won't help me out.

You'd be amazed what one can do once they learn how to intuitively and instinctively start to know how they can't help the team best. This is a very hard skill to learn, as it is very easy to just "rambo" out on your own. The best thing you can do for your team, which should help make it seem less "instagib", is to try and coordinate your team, even a little bit. Some plan (especially at the start of a match) is better than no plan. And, on top of that, a bad plan is even better than no plan at all.

Some games you will get a team you click with, and that's when you will seem to do a stomp. Elo can't predict when certain players, their mechs, and their play styles will mesh well.

Some games, you will get a team that, from your perspective, seems to be doing everything backwards and standing still getting killed. Once again, those people may have good Elo scores, but MM can't predict when a player doesn't have the right playstyle for a team or map (or just a bad game).

This is a complex game. Complex makes it harder to provide any aid about what you are honestly seeming to ask. I can give advice (which you probably have already heard, or already try to use yourself), but without more specific details, not much more.

As far as addressing the "new players next to advanced players" department, new players are all assigned a base automatic neutral Elo, which technically is well above their real playing skill Elo. However, this is done not to throw them into a tank of hungry and vicious sharks, but instead so that they might learn from more experienced players as well as have more experienced players try to provide advice and help the new players.

While on the subject of Elo, I wish to mention that I did a little experiment a while ago, I created a brand new account (for stock mechs only). Let me just say, I instantly noticed the Elo difference between my main account and my new account. Lets just say, I forgot how annoying it is for people to get right behind you... and then stop. Preventing you from backing back up into cover. So, Elo does help, at least to some extent...

[All iN]

Tank You for the answers, long time since I saw so worthy read on the forums.
I think I might be just tired, always tryign to do something in a game, get some flanking position, get some advantage... it always ends the same way, being *****. I take any mech, keep any spot be it middle front or side of group, as soon as I target someone I'm dead, 5 people focus me and that's it, most of the time ignoring others totally. I think I should not foucs on winning, but on playing the best I can at given circumstances.

or when I take DWF team leaves me behind to be eaten by mediums.

Edited by All iN, 30 October 2014 - 08:08 PM.

[Tesunie]

All iN, on 30 October 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

or when I take DWF team leaves me behind to be eaten by mediums.

When I first ran my Stock account, I took my hand at Awesomes. Same problem, and got kindly told it was "my fault for being so slow". Now, when I take my Banshee out for a spin, I let people know "Warning: Slow mech" "Warning: My mech makes a Direwolf seem fast!" Strangely enough, when I do this, I have all too many people wishing to stand with me, and not running away ditching me.

Oh, as a note, new rewards will be letting people probably want to stay with you now, as they get rewarded for doing so...

[Darwins Dog]

This game is really sensitive to the first kill. I remember hearing from Russ in a podcast that the team with the first kill usually wins the match. A small lead quickly turns into a big advantage.

The MM also can't account for skill with a particular chassis (only looks at weight class), loadout, intoxication level, letting a friend try the game, playing a joke build, and all of the other things that happen in a pug match.

If joining a guild is not your thing, there are also a few public teamspeak servers out there where you can join up with a group to have a bit of coordination with no commitment.

[Rogue Jedi]

As previously mentioned the enemy will often focus on a single Mech and take it down fast, this can be the difference between the winning team and the loosing team, if 4 players encounter 4 enemy players, the team which takes the enemies down most efficiently wins, the best way to do this is to all fire on the same target.

the rough order of priority seems to be:

top priority: ECM carrying Mechs, Dire Wolf
high priority: Timber Wolf, Cataphract, Jagermech, Victor, Storm Crow, undefended LRM boats
med priority: anything heavily damaged, other assaults and heavies, Shadow Hawk, Griffin,
low priority: everything else

if you are in a high priority target you want to avoid being noticed until your team is ready to attack, this is not always possible but try to stay out of sight until the team seems ready, and do avoid being the first to push a high or top priority target.

the Dire Wolf has a lot of firepower but if caught alone is the most vulnerable Mech in the game (almost everything else can outrun and outmaneuver you), do what you can to avoid being caught alone, this includes telling your team (in text chat) that they are leaving you behind, preferably before you find yourself 500m behind the others and ambushed by a few lights

[Javenri]

First a comment regarding MM: I remember that when the new MM was ready to launch, it was mentioned by PGI that first players would be assigned in an ELO bucket and then the MM would find them a match suited for their class. Now, I am not so sure this works like that. Looks like more than trying to average the ELO of a team against their opponent. Of course it is more of a hunch than a fact so, some response from PGI could clear things up.

Regardless of MM settings, there is a factor that comes into play: communication (or rather lack of it). Random teams need the ability of voice comms, since typing can be very impractical due to the speed of the game (really hard to pilot a mech and type at the same time). Having voice comms would help random teams coordinate, give advice to new players, directions, call targets, etc. If I remember well, PGI said that they would work for such a thing (their early effort was the C3, but didn't seem to work). An update on the issue would be useful.

[Redshift2k5]

Very simple: Evenly matched teams does not predict an even number of kills per team.

You can observe this in a closed system by playing private matches with identical teams playing against each other: even with all matchmaking variables removed, matches can range from lopsided number of kills to even number of kills and back again.

A single tactical decision can make or break a match, and once a few players are dead it very easily snowballs into a wipe.

[All iN]

Thiking of it, this game needs like a proper in-game tutorial mission, not just videos on the website (although good ones). People seem to not even know you can open big map, not to mention targeting and what it gives.

One simple mission, go there, destroy a mech on the way (can be destroyed only by shootign at certain hardpoints), open a map to see where he is etc...

It should be mandoatory before joining queue - I think that would improve things a lot.

[Redshift2k5]

I'm sure everyone will agree that the game needs better tutorials and more information for new players.

[Voivode]

Redshift2k5, on 31 October 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

A single tactical decision can make or break a match, and once a few players are dead it very easily snowballs into a wipe.

This is totally true.

All iN, on 31 October 2014 - 06:29 AM, said:

Thiking of it, this game needs like a proper in-game tutorial mission, not just videos on the website (although good ones). People seem to not even know you can open big map, not to mention targeting and what it gives.

One simple mission, go there, destroy a mech on the way (can be destroyed only by shootign at certain hardpoints), open a map to see where he is etc...

It should be mandoatory before joining queue - I think that would improve things a lot.

This is also totally true lol


At the end of the day, you will sometimes get those spells where you just can't win. Its one of the peculiarities of this game and I've learned when it happens to just step away from the computer and come back later. Your ELO is different for each class of mechs as well. That is to say, your assigned ELO number is different for lights than it is for mediums and so on. If you don't like the matches you're getting, try jumping to a different weight class (assuming you have additional mechs to do so with).

Generally, there are two types of players. Those that prefer the Conquest game mode and those who prefer the Skirmish game mode. Most players are somewhat indifferent to Assault. You get a very different mentality in those two game modes. If you're having repetitive bad matches and you notice that the ROFLSTOMPs are all happening in, say, Skirmish, then try unchecking the Skirmish box for a while and see if your matches change.

[Redshift2k5]

Most players I play with prefer Assault as the One True Mode.

[cleghorn6]

After listening to the NGNG podcast with Karl Berg, it seems that close Elo matches are MORE likely to end in stomps. Presumably, when the skill levels of the players are even, it only takes a single mistake to completely ruin a team (which is also what you see if you watch the competitive matches, most of the time). One slip and 1 or 2 'mechs go down, then weight of numbers does the rest.

With a wide range of skills in the game, you will tend to lose the Leeroy Jenkins' first (obvs), then the steering-wheel underhive get picked off and so on until just the 3 or 4 super comp-gods are left on each team to duke it out.

Counter-intuitive at first, but makes sense if you think about it.

[All iN]

I know it's a total offtopic, but since I'm asking one thing might as well ask another - I really do not understand what is happening in matches sometimes nowdays.

Today - Stormraven, 4 times hit in CT with 2PPC2Gauss - still has YELLOW ARMOR. Jeagermech cores me faster than I core him with the same setup on my side, 2xac10 on his, no headshot. Spider that tanks a torso shot with mentioned set, all armor holding, max orange. No stripped parts.

And those were "standing still" situations, I really can hit the same spot after decade of playing mechwarrior games. I'm really at the verge of giving up, becasue I knwo how the game works, and it only works when I get shot...

I was palying MWO in CTB and wre in for multiple versions of netcode, but thing I see now, seem mroe like a cheat than anything else...

Edited by All iN, 31 October 2014 - 04:58 PM.

[Redshift2k5]

Hitreg has never been perfect (hint: no game has perfect hitreg), whether the target is standing still or not is irrelevant, what you see, what the other player sees, and what the server sees are never ever the same due to network limitations, and there are always going to be isolated cases of improper hit registration.

As for the Jager coring you first, it could be hitreg (you'd only need one shot to vanish to top the odds) but it can also be mech skills, aim, and even modules which improve rate of fire.

[Grey Black]

Voodoo magic and sacrifice to the Dark Ones, mostly.

[GTV Zeratul]

Please do ask yourself how many of the stomps are actual stomps?
In most matches the winning team will have 3+ mechs that are one hit away from dying and the weight of numbers could have easely shifted to the other side.

YMMV

[All iN]

GTV Zeratul, on 31 October 2014 - 03:16 PM, said:

Please do ask yourself how many of the stomps are actual stomps?
In most matches the winning team will have 3+ mechs that are one hit away from dying and the weight of numbers could have easely shifted to the other side.

YMMV

well 0-12 seems stomp even if you have 3-4 mechs red CT even if those 3-4 mechs die, it's still 3-4 to 12. So, in best case scenario it's a mild stopm instead of lube ****.

Edit

Next night, same thing. Matchmakign keeps making 0-12 matches of green trial mechs against founders packs. Safe to say, this is constant. Nothing to do here anymore. Could be fun, but, well. Maybe it is for people playing in organised groups, nothign wrong with that, it is just a bit sad they can't figure out working matchmaking for 2 years. I understand there can be many thigns to say in it's defense, but come on, some people are very biased here. Matchmaking OR tutorial are not done properly.

I need to give it a rest, 39 lost matches, 5 won today (one really nice and tactical). I'm a bit aggravated by the seemingly random statistic that happens every day. Two years passed, and it's basically same thing over and over again.

Edited by All iN, 31 October 2014 - 04:58 PM.