35 replies to this topic

[RG Notch]

Phelan P Kell, on 25 June 2012 - 07:26 AM, said:

****also I added extra commas to **** you off, my guess is that your a grammar troll

It's you're a grammar troll.

[Glythe]

Let me help out here.... The OP is talking about WoT without actually naming the game.

WoT has buggy spotting systems where you can spot enemies in a 3rd person view even if you shouldn't be able to (imagine a 3m magic periscope of vision that extends over the top of every tank) and results in strange situations where you can see an enemy and can't shoot him because a hill is in the way. It is also buggy as hell in that tanks have a bad habit of vanishing in non cover areas. You also have to be aware in WoT if you hide in a bush you ARE invisible until you shoot. You can remain invisible by 'abusing' some bush mechanics....

Let me hop in here and say no one is going to recreate that madness... rofl. I've played that game so long sometimes I forget how bad and stupid the spotting system is in that game.

This is a modern/future tech game. A scout can laser designate targets with a TAG to make missiles home in more accurately (against a very distant target). Scouts can hit mechs with NARC beacons which do the same thing but do not require constant line of sight (NARC is a fire and forget homing beacon to let your team know where that guy is and lets you shoot long range missiles at him). You have the option to eventually launch recon drones and satelitte sweeps (no one knows how many or how often for either).

Now then you CAN be sneaky.... you can power down a mech and he won't appear unless you are right next to him if he hid well. If a scout buddy tells him when to power up it can be an atlas ambush from 10m! The downside is that he literally can't see anything on his screen.... imagine if you turned your computer off mid fight and did a quick reboot in the middle.

There are also ECM devices which either reduce missile lock functions OR decrease your radar profile (or possibly both.... different games have had different functions).

Edited by Glythe, 25 June 2012 - 07:51 AM.

[RG Notch]

I still don't get where I'm the bad guy, even those people who know how betas work and such qualify their statements. All I said is if you're not in the beta you don't know for sure. Why is pointing that out so bad? Sorry for pointing out that your well founded speculation is still speculation. Sorry if my lack of tact contributed, but I call it as I see it and whether you like the manner I presented in or not it's still the truth.

[RedDragon]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

I still don't get where I'm the bad guy, even those people who know how betas work and such qualify their statements. All I said is if you're not in the beta you don't know for sure. Why is pointing that out so bad? Sorry for pointing out that your well founded speculation is still speculation. Sorry if my lack of tact contributed, but I call it as I see it and whether you like the manner I presented in or not it's still the truth.

Well, the point is just the way you said it.
No one would have had a problem with a simple statement like "Yes, this seems to be the case, but it may still change since it's not out of beta yet."
But you accuse (or at least seem to) people of breaking their NDA and pack your posts full of sarcasm that it indicates a quite hostile stance on your side.

[Lucky Strongarm]

Death Mallet, on 25 June 2012 - 07:30 AM, said:

Dangerous!!! Dangerous I tell you!!!

I mean, what would happen if people thought the game worked one way, and then turned out to work a completely different way?? Mass chaos, that's what. Dogs and cat's, living together! Real end-of-the-world type stuff!!

Exactly. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave!

[Phelan P Kell]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2012 - 07:49 AM, said:

It's you're a grammar troll.

Humor, he has it!!!!! Yay!!!


Now with the stick out of your butt the healing can start

[Lucky Strongarm]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2012 - 07:58 AM, said:

I still don't get where I'm the bad guy, even those people who know how betas work and such qualify their statements. All I said is if you're not in the beta you don't know for sure. Why is pointing that out so bad? Sorry for pointing out that your well founded speculation is still speculation. Sorry if my lack of tact contributed, but I call it as I see it and whether you like the manner I presented in or not it's still the truth.

I agree with your point. I can ask if Mechwarrior will have 'mechs in it, and probably get some fairly conclusive answers, or I can ask the question I did, and get some speculation. It does help for people to make clear whether what they say is proven fact or a hunch. Message was good, there's just an issue with your package (wait for it.... wait for it....).

[Risky]

Lucky Strongarm, on 25 June 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:

I agree with your point. I can ask if Mechwarrior will have 'mechs in it, and probably get some fairly conclusive answers, or I can ask the question I did, and get some speculation. It does help for people to make clear whether what they say is proven fact or a hunch. Message was good, there's just an issue with your package (wait for it.... wait for it....).

Mmmm package. ;P

Edited by Risky, 25 June 2012 - 08:17 AM.

[Laserkid]

I think this will be a little moot.

The scouting pilot skill tree has detection upgrades beyond Line of sight. Thermal will detect mechs through consealment type cover. Magnetic will detect them even through hard cover.

It seems being a scout will rely on the pilot character having these skills ,the mechs own electronics suite (Beagal Active probes, TAG, etc), and the player's skill to keep enemies in range of these sensors while not exposing himself to fire.

The last will likely be the most difficult task because the the enemies own sensors/scout and LRMs are capable of indirect fire.

[RG Notch]

Hey whatever folks, I guess some people mistake my sarcasm as mean spirited. I forget text doesn't carry all the indicators and I'm too lazy to use smileys all the time. I guess my professional background prevents me from making unsupported claims as fact and I find far too many people on these (or any forums) simply post something as fact and it causes issues when they are wrong. Clear communications make for a better environment, and I guess more carefully tuned sarcasm would help as well.

[RedDragon]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Hey whatever folks, I guess some people mistake my sarcasm as mean spirited. I forget text doesn't carry all the indicators and I'm too lazy to use smileys all the time. I guess my professional background prevents me from making unsupported claims as fact and I find far too many people on these (or any forums) simply post something as fact and it causes issues when they are wrong. Clear communications make for a better environment, and I guess more carefully tuned sarcasm would help as well.

Sounds fair enough for me. *shake hands*

Ontopic: This new video might answer some of the questions

[Jiri Starrider]

Leave WoT out of it. Anyone really interested in it's spotting mechanics would A) be playing it and either familiar with it, or 2nd) have read the Battlemechanics section of it's wiki to read up on how it really works.

Needless to say a system intended to simulate the limitations of looking through thick glass periscopes of dubious quality and VERY limited field of view are going to be a bit different than what is here. (Hey, at least WoT renders in 360 and not what it should do, only where your field of view is)

My take on viewing the videos is mechs are rendered out to whatever the draw distance is. With radar providing locks and data being shared between units. With no communication range limits on the map. But that's just inferred from the videos. What we see once in game may be different, it is in beta and regardless of what is said comparing alpha's to beta's, things change. A lot. Seen it.

Edited by Jiri Starrider, 25 June 2012 - 10:50 AM.

[Lucky Strongarm]

Jiri Starrider, on 25 June 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Leave WoT out of it. Anyone really interested in it's spotting mechanics would A) be playing it and either familiar with it, or 2nd) have read the Battlemechanics section of it's wiki to read up on how it really works.

I will have to say that I am very uninterested in WoT's spotting mechanic. If realism is intended to be a component of that game, the entire 3rd person, magical vanishing tank concept strikes me as immersion-breaking. In the end, this disinterest stems from my inability to play that game with any skill whatsoever. I expect that said inability shall translate to this game, regardless of my understanding of its spotting mechanics, and regardless of any immersing realism. But as that has not yet been proven, I can suspend my belief, and look at this particular mechanic with great interest.

[Twisted Power]

RG Notch, on 25 June 2012 - 06:50 AM, said:

So again, you're in beta and know nothing has changed since those videos? It's amazing what people know for a fact from a few bits of video that may not even represent the current beta. I'm not saying it's not the case, but I certainly wouldn't say it definitely is. I wonder why they need an NDA if everything about the game is so clearly evident from these videos.
Anyways, just like most of the posts here, its merely speculation, while it may be well founded based on the videos, its dangerous to make too many conclusions while beta is still underway.

If you read the developer blogs it clearly states that there is a scouting module that can relay positions of mechs, and there is a module that can target up to 4 mechs. So you can relay 4 mech positions (an entire lance) if you had the modules for it. There is also a module that can recieve the info. The blogs also say there is a delay before you lose sight of a mech even after untargeting.

[Decius Trajan]

As long as mechs don't appear to have cloaking devices like in a certain other game whose name cannot be menitoned. I'll play STO if I want to fight cloaking vehicles.

[silentD11]

Twisted Power, on 26 June 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

If you read the developer blogs it clearly states that there is a scouting module that can relay positions of mechs, and there is a module that can target up to 4 mechs. So you can relay 4 mech positions (an entire lance) if you had the modules for it. There is also a module that can recieve the info. The blogs also say there is a delay before you lose sight of a mech even after untargeting.

Scouting sounds to be a fun job then, plus they said you earn credit for it!