23 replies to this topic

[Bront]

Just an FYI, with the increase in AMS carrying players, reduction of screen shake, and lack of damage, the constant stream of LRM5 Chainfire spam is just not effective.

IS LRM5s may pierce AMS still, but on a larger mech, the damage is so miniscule, I've found there's no need to even run for cover, and I get to point out where the rain is coming from for the lights.

For Clan LRM5s, you're lucky if any missiles ever get though.

As far as costing AMS ammo, with the IS doubling, there's plenty of AMS ammo to go around, so you're not likely to wear out the enemy, and if there's AMS in the area, chainfire just isn't going to do it.

So, what to do?

Options:
Group Fire - Not bad, but can get hot quickly.

Carry Bigger launchers - LRM10s and LRM15s are a good sweet spot for the IS. For Clans, generally the bigger launchers work better for both AMS penetration and grouping.

Nothing wrong with some supplementary LRM5s, but the LRM5 boating is just not very effective now.

[InspectorG]

Even with Artemis?

i thought the value was the shake-suppression it created in the victim, not the overall damage.

[WonderSparks]

I still use 5xLRMA 5 on my Summoner and Stormcrow from time-to-time, and although not a terribly effective array of weapons, it is still fun to use.
And when I see AMS ruining my volleys, I simply push up the rate of fire (since I do not use automatic chain-fire like some do; I put each launcher in its own group and fire them individually at a manual rate) to fire more missiles faster. Works well enough for my liking.

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Someone was parked between me and my target using AMS x3 and I couldn't get my C-LRM15 to touch anything. I think all those "NERF LURM" critics were planning on this. "Hey.. let's get the lrms nerf'd so much that even x1 AMS can take out entire salvos of missiles!"

[Mercer Skye]

Personally, I think a bunch of 5's provide the greatest flexibility of volleys. On my Mad Dog, I still run the 6x build. It's effectively a 'select fire LRM30.' Can fire all at once, but if you luck out with a target that is away from AMS, you can do some serious rocking.

Even if there is a bunch of AMS, say you get a bead on one of those Cheese Whales with 5/6 UACs, you can rock them hard enough with just a couple missiles getting through that you effectively remove them from the skirmish for all the screen shake you're putting on them.

But yes, the damage throughput is going to be rubbish if you just chainfire them all the time, but the point isn't damage, it's setting your team up for the win.

And trolling the enemy team

[Eaerie]

i run a maddog with 6 LRM5's for the sheer flexability, can launch a 30 valley easy enough though most times i am firing them in 2 groups of 15 missles each, and they ahve a high rate of fire, so when a nice target presents comes along i can really start dumping missles into them. almost never chainfire them individually though.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

I find the chain fire to be a little more ammo efficient.

If someone is moving in and out of cover I find I'm wasting more ammo shooting full volleys.

[Pocket_Aces]

Sometimes the enemy having the "Incoming Missile" warning will be enough to get them back into cover. They don't know how many are coming so it pays to be careful.

[Sky Hawk]

Ye, LRM5s are not very effective.. But, if you have enough Ammo, that is not such a big problem.. And for some Mechs/Builds there is no other options... And, at the end, it is a question of playstyle/taste.. Do you want a bigger luncher, bigger hit, bigger heat, but few Ammo... or on-going chain-fire 8 minutes long...?

Nowdays, I use LRM10/CLRM10s in most of my Mechs... except: Kintaros, Jenner, A1... They have LRM5s, both size works fine..

Edited by Sky Hawk, 09 November 2014 - 08:17 PM.

[ExAstris]

For IS launchers, the cluster size is everything.

For Clan launchers, the bigger the better since their stream firing makes them all cluster equally.

Since IS need maximum cluster density, that leads to some basic mathematical truths about MWO.

Standard clustering for LRM5s tend to land all the missiles on target unless its small and fast. This is approximately the optimal clustering. Tighter doesn't help much more except to concentrate damage on the CT against immobile targets and worse causes missiles to miss entirely.

LRM10s miss some by default, but artemis, narc, OR tag can fix that.

LRM15s are even worse, but you need double clustering bonuses to fix it, and the only two that work together are artemis and tag.

LRM20s are even worse, and no clustering bonuses can save them. You will always waste missiles unless firing at an immobile mech with a large profile.

Thus, for maximum damage against the widest variety of targets, use 15s + art + tag.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ad070c371e054b6
I average 500dmg a match in this mech. IMO, its ton-for-ton the best LRM boat in the game. Can't get much more out of heavier mechs due to 20s not being worth it, nothing has this mech's geometry for ranged support, and can't mount quad 15s on anything smaller.

[Escef]

Bront, on 09 November 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

Options:
Group Fire - Not bad, but can get hot quickly.

Carry Bigger launchers - LRM10s and LRM15s are a good sweet spot for the IS. For Clans, generally the bigger launchers work better for both AMS penetration and grouping.

For clans I recommend more small launchers over "fewer but bigger". The idea is that you need to overwhelm the AMS. A single stream of 15 LRMs won't do that, but 3 simultaneous streams of 5 has a better chance of getting some damage through. If you group fire 6xLRM5 on a Mad Dog you are sending 6 streams of missiles at the opponent, whereas chaining them just puts out one long, continuous stream.

[Trumpetteer]

With the LRM5 launchers you also have a shorter cooldown, so you could fire that LRM30 volley in a far shorter time than the other launchers.

[Demi-Precentor Konev]

I haven't seen much drop off in the effectiveness of my Golden Boy, which uses a 5x5 build. It does a good amount of damage, makes a lot of C-bills, and players are generally afraid enough of LRMs that being able to, as other posters have mentioned, be selective in how many missiles I use makes it easier to play on that fear. Against highly armored 'Mechs they take a lot of firing to really be effective, but against other targets (i.e. most of the other 'Mechs I'm up against) that constant barrage works out well. With the new quirks and with getting my Kintaro's Elite'd the Golden Boy can provide a heat-neutral, non-stop barrage of LRM5 salvos. The psychological effect is wonderful.

[Bront]

Trumpetteer, on 10 November 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:

With the LRM5 launchers you also have a shorter cooldown, so you could fire that LRM30 volley in a far shorter time than the other launchers.

Only if you alpha strike with them rather than chain fire, and then you do it at the cost of heat (10 heat for 2 LRM15s, 19.56 for 6 LRM5s).

If nothing else, mix it up folks. I've just seen too many bad LRM5 chainfiring mechs this weekend, and have been able to ignore them on the other team myself.

[Crotch RockIt]

My Mag Dog build of choice is 6xLRM5 and 4xML. I always start off with a group fire LRM30, while watching the air for AMS hits. If I don't see any AMS after the first volley or two, then I'll switch to chain fire.

Edited by Crotch RockIt, 11 November 2014 - 07:43 AM.

[Ace Selin]

LRM5 still works great. Chain fire if you see mech in open and no AMS or group fire them if the mech is using AMS. I dont even have to try and i kill people with lights spotting/ narcing for me.

[Lily from animove]

totally depends on the situation, a LRM pilot should be bale to see if the opponent has ams or not, then he needs to decide if vlley or chainfire those lrm's.

Combat is dynamic and so should your behavior be.

[Siegegun]

I use the standard 5x lrm5 on my Kintaro. I find them very effective. I never alpha them, I use them in chain fire exclusively. I find the heat far more manageable, the ammo consumption ALOT more efficient, and the enemy suppression ability a lot better when used like this.

If you see all you missiles being eaten by a target and no damage, stop firing and find a target on the outskirts of the enemy group. If there are currently none, reposition and wait a minute, the battle will shift, and a target WILL appear. Even with 2 AMS, you will drive through the AMS in roughly 5-6 volleys.

[terrycloth]

I use chain-fired 5s as a secondary weapon on my stalker 5M. If there's AMS I'll group them but otherwise it's a lot more ammo-efficient, and since it's not a dedicated LRM boat I've only got 5 tons of ammo.

And it kills people just fine. Sometimes I'll chain fire at them while also shooting them with lasers -- can't do that for long but it delays the return fire because they can't see.

[Big Tin Man]

The purpose of stacked LRM5 is psycholgical warfare. Constant screen shake (now less), Betty constantly telling you of your imminent demise, and efficiency in area denial by shooting a single LRM volley to a target you don't think you can hit, but will make them retract to cover. AMS is still an issue When things are going well in a group, the opponent that is being focused is getting rocked hard, and the LRM5 boat is bringing most of the noise.

Stacked 5's is a confuse/frustrate the opposition role. The others do the lifting while you distract them. And I do miss the single NARC tube on my TBT-7M with a LRM15 in there. Ultimate trolling with a constant single missile stream. Stupid art pass "fixing" that.