352 replies to this topic

[Macksheen]

Honestly Russ, I run a fair amount of streaks and they ask have xAP ... While I've noticed a larger cancelation range, I mostly noticed in situations where it was more simply interesting rather than something I felt impacted the match greatly. Generally speaking, the radius is, to me, less impactful than the cancel-one-ECM mechanic. Radius doesn't matter in those cases where there are two ECMs.

And, 65% mind blown. I thought I ran a lot, but not on even half my mechs.

[Monkey Lover]

Im guessing 65% of people used it at some point not all at once

[Nathan Foxbane]

I like it. I would like to see a bit of interaction though. Like being in ECM range kills all bonus BAP gives except the counter effect.

Scratx, on 12 November 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Idea : Counter maybe 240-[300]m and up to [400]m flag ECM mech on minimap? Like Seismic, except just mechs that are using ECM in disrupt mode. I think canon-wise BAP is supposed to warn when there's ECM nearby. For that matter, even _without_ the minimap, could we get an indication that BAP _is_ countering some ECM? It makes sense.

Canon wise ECM is actually the response to BAP (knows it is being jammed though), Artemis IV, C3 Networks, and Narc. It neutralizes those for the current era, but does not do anything else. Really just a bonus killer until Stealth armor and Void Sig come along, then it gets really nasty.

[MadPanda]

Monkey Lover, on 12 November 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

Im guessing 65% of people used it at some point not all at once

I would guess his data counts "afk" mechs. I got over 40 mechs but I play like 6 of them. Who knows what my old IS relics got on them... I might be unknowingly contributing to this 65% BAP stat.

[Orbit Rain]

360 is too much, more around 220-270 would be right imho. You'll sell more of those upcoming ECM mechs (*cough*) if you lower BAP's range. Becuase as someone said the BAP changes make ecm lights role very limited. Currently, countering main body ECM from about 300 away only makes lrm'ing easier and more abundant in ridge battles. ECM lights have trouble being main body ECM escorts when they have to be 180 behind the body because their ecm is cancelled getting close to the opfor. DDC's are screwed the way it is, they can't give ECM cover from lrms, and they can't get away likes lights can, to avoid it.

[YaKillinMeSmalls]

I would prefer a reduced range. It's hard to cover my team unless they're all snipers/lrms. 240 meters wouldn't be too bad, I think.

[Joe Mallad]

Lol, come on guys it was and still is 65% because it allows players to counter an ECM unit and allows them to still use their precious Streaks because the enemy ECM is countered and streaks can once again lock. So yeah why wouldn't the % be high?1

[Chagatay]

I am really just amazed at how big the % is.

I mean with 3/3/3/3 you'd only expect 75% for the most part as light mechs usually don't carry (have ECM instead or they are knife fighters).

Edited by Chagatay, 12 November 2014 - 06:27 PM.

[Kroxloq]

I like the change.

180m prior to the patch seemed to require 'mechs to get a little too close. That being said, it could probably be toned down ever so slightly and still be very useful. 300m instead of 360m? Only slight tweaking is needed if any at all in my opinion.

[El Bandito]

Russ Bullock, on 12 November 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Prior to the Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carried BAP.

Post Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carry BAP.

Not sure the LRM flow has been effected much - yes it is reaching out further. For 1.5 tons do you like it as is now, or at a smaller radius.

I'd much prefer ECM/BAP/TAG/NARC were all reverted back to CANON value. For example, ECM counters Artemis, BAP and NARC but does not block LRM/SSRM lock.

Failing that, keep the range as is currently. We need the extended range to counter-balance ECM.

Edited by El Bandito, 13 November 2014 - 06:42 AM.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I honestly think that BAP should make it easier to target Mechs with/under ECM. It should make the BAP carrier able to lock enemy Mechs that would normally be under their friendly ECM umbrella by reducing the range they can stray from their ECM carrier while remaining hidden from sensors.

[Joe Mallad]

YaKillinMeSmalls, on 12 November 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

I would prefer a reduced range. It's hard to cover my team unless they're all snipers/lrms. 240 meters wouldn't be too bad, I think.

Being BAP can only counter 1 ECM unit, I would think that it was meant to be a cover "you" item and not so much as a team cover.

[HammerMaster]

Reduce range back to 180. Up the degree to 360. Don't let it cancel for all, just the equipped mech. Rethink the mechanic back to TT. Ad Nauseum.

Edited by HammerMaster, 12 November 2014 - 06:17 PM.

[Abivard]

I see the majority of the solo non team players are surprised that people might actually equip something that doesn't solely benefit themselves but may in fact help the team. This does not surprise me in the least.

I Know many of these same types absolutely will refuse to target in the fear that it may help a team mate 'steal their kill'.

But they seem really keen on letting everyone know what they feel is best for the team as a whole, to bad it rarely benefits anyone but themselves lol.

[dJellyfish]

I've actually switched to using it in my builds more frequently because it helps me win matches... to the extent of usually choosing it over an AMS. The reach does seem a hair too far, especially if 65% of mechs are packing one.

[Macksheen]

Yoseful Mallad, on 12 November 2014 - 06:12 PM, said:

Lol, come on guys it was and still is 65% because it allows players to counter an ECM unit and allows them to still use their precious Streaks because the enemy ECM is countered and streaks can once again lock. So yeah why wouldn't the % be high?1

Yeah, but I think I run streaks more than most, and I'm no where near that % of BAP use.

Maybe I don't run streaks as much as I thought?

[TheAtomiser]

Make the range 270. ECM is rare enough as it is. Having 65 percent of mechs able to counter a specialised mech that there aren't much of nullifies ECM too much I think.

[Deathlike]

I'm not sure what the stat means.

If you're talking about the overall "mech count" if you factor in "everyone's mechbays", it's far different from "# of players equipping BAP in drops".

The stat lacks context, but ultimately people who are taking BAP generally has some clue why BAP is useful (required for Streaks, helps allow LRMs not get blocked by ECM), outside of the obvious built in Target Info Gathering behavior.

So, useless stat is useless.

Edit:
For context, I added the Clan Active Probe to the Ferrets I just ran since the change (gotta go full troll with NARC). I didn't change or remove BAP out of any of my mechs. In fact, this was the first time I bought Clan BAP. So, it is difficult to interpret what Russ is saying or implying.

2nd Edit:
I forgot I had taken out BAP+Streaks from the Victor-9S somewhere along the line. Oh well.

3rd Edit:
I didn't even use many of my mechs that equipped BAP... I've only been grinding the Ice Ferret for the most part, so I had a 2/3rds chance of running BAP.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 November 2014 - 06:33 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

El Bandito, on 12 November 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

For example, ECM counters TAG

ECM does not counter TAG in canon, ECM does not stop me from blowing away mechs with my homing Arrow IV and semi-guided LRMs.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 12 November 2014 - 06:25 PM.

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 12 November 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

I'd much prefer ECM/BAP/TAG/NARC were all reverted back to CANON value. For example, ECM counters TAG, BAP and NARC but does not block LRM/SSRM lock.

Failing that, keep the range as is currently. We need the extended range to counter balance ECM.

A function other than Jesus Box canceler would be nice.

Though, what that function should be is up to debate. Ability to identify mechs and loadouts from 120/150M without LoS? Fairly short range, but it would be like a short ranged Seismic that doesn't require you to stop.