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Update On Bap


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#41 El Bandito

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:32 PM

View PostWM Quicksilver, on 12 November 2014 - 06:24 PM, said:

ECM does not counter TAG in canon, ECM does not stop me from blowing away mechs with my homing Arrow IV and semi-guided LRMs.


My bad, I confused it with Artemis. Editing it now.


View PostMcgral18, on 12 November 2014 - 06:31 PM, said:


A function other than Jesus Box canceler would be nice.

Though, what that function should be is up to debate. Ability to identify mechs and loadouts from 120/150M without LoS? Fairly short range, but it would be like a short ranged Seismic that doesn't require you to stop.


How about reducing the effect of Radar Derp ever so slightly? Just 0.5 second perhaps? Or, make it extend the range of AMS by further 10 meters, thus allowing mech with BAP and AMS range module to shoot down a NARC every time?

Edited by El Bandito, 12 November 2014 - 06:42 PM.


#42 lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:34 PM

View PostRuss Bullock, on 12 November 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Prior to the Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carried BAP.

Post Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carry BAP.

Not sure the LRM flow has been effected much - yes it is reaching out further. For 1.5 tons do you like it as is now, or at a smaller radius.


From what I have noticed, the extra radius does really impact targets that are grouped up behind cover and defending an area with 1-2 ECM. It pretty much opens up the front line defense to LRM fire, and forces at least the ECM equipped mechs to try to fall back to cover what they can out of range of the BAP.

Also, when using IS scout/harassment mechs that drive through enemy groups you rarely see a force spread out past 360m (when holing up in a defensive position or murderballing), so 1 BAP covers the whole area.

Also, let's face it... most of PGI's maps are super small. With respect, please take all of your maps, and overlap what a single BAP can now cover on it. It's pretty disgusting for that huge of a radius. Then use the heat maps to show the advantage/disadvantage people have depending on their starting points (mainly on Assault maps, but this should really apply and be looked at in lieu of CW on the horizon.)

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 12 November 2014 - 06:35 PM.


#43 Homeless Bill

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:37 PM

As others have said, it would be cool to see some other form of useful functionality (seeing an opponent's heat, for example), but if the choice is between what it was and what it is, it's all about the bigger radius. Though it may not have a huge effect in PUG games, that extra counter range is serious business when that's what you're trying to do. It needed the buff.

#44 Kilo 40

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:42 PM

The range increase was looooong overdue. Keep it.

#45 Kageru Ikazuchi

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:48 PM

View PostRuss Bullock, on 12 November 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Prior to the Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carried BAP.

Post Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carry BAP.

Not sure the LRM flow has been effected much - yes it is reaching out further. For 1.5 tons do you like it as is now, or at a smaller radius.

65% is shocking ... I would be very interested to see how that is distributed across the whole demographic, because I would be very surprised if that number is even close to accurate in competitive play.

Anyhow, as a guy who likes and relies on ECM occasionally, it's kind of much for it to be a direct counter so far away, but it hasn't affected my game play or builds significantly.

It is definitely a major buff to Clan Streak Boats, which I'm not sure was necessary.

#46 Triordinant

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:06 PM

360m is turning out to be the correct radius.

#47 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:06 PM

View PostRuss Bullock, on 12 November 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

Prior to the Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carried BAP.

Post Nov 4th - 65% of 'Mechs carry BAP.

Not sure the LRM flow has been effected much - yes it is reaching out further. For 1.5 tons do you like it as is now, or at a smaller radius.


I think your numbers are wrong... I dont know anyone who doesnt use BAP now O.o

I know I run it on everything I play now

Especially LRM boats (since Ive had 3 surgeries on my dominant arm thats all I play)

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 12 November 2014 - 07:09 PM.


#48 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:10 PM

View PostKageru Ikazuchi, on 12 November 2014 - 06:48 PM, said:

It is definitely a major buff to Clan Streak Boats, which I'm not sure was necessary.


And a direct nerf to ECM which was then again, if theres an ecm light within 360 m of a lrm boat (usually heavy or assault) the heavy/assault is just as screweed cause the light is SO fast

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 12 November 2014 - 07:11 PM.


#49 Mothykins

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:10 PM

Ecm mechs can still sneak up, and need to be a little more aware.

I would like a little more incentive though. Still a little wussy for 1.5 Tons and two slots.

#50 KnowBuddy

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:11 PM

Wow, I had totally missed this change in the patch notes. Now BAP might actually be useful for 'Mechs I put LRMs on instead of just being a necessary addition to SSRM carriers. But I find the 65% statistic hard to believe both before and after the patch... there is some part of how that was calculated that doesn't make sense.

#51 Foxfire

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:19 PM

Personally, I'd prefer that ECM mechanics(and information warfare in general) were actually changed so that changes like this wouldn't be required.

That said, I don't think that bumping down the BAP range a little would be a bad thing. I think somewhere between 250-300 range would be appropriate.

#52 Vassago Rain

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:25 PM

I like the new range, but wish BAP had some more functionality.

#53 Maver0ick

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:28 PM

I would like to see a smaller radius.

#54 Hann Solo

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:34 PM

I like it. Much more effective against ECM.

#55 Cyborne Elemental

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:34 PM

I would like to see the ECM counter range at around 275 down from 360, too many maps are too small to allow for good ambushes and flanking with ECM countering at such a long(er) range.

#56 Gauvan

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:34 PM

I notice it on my ECM mechs, definitely. It isn’t as pervasive as I expected. It seems about right in terms of the effect radius--at middling engagement range I can still cover the group by moving back a bit, but once a skirmish starts ECM is off the table, at least for covering the group. I haven’t played my D-DC since the change but I expect they are hurting. Atlases don’t (or shouldn’t) hang near the back.

So the BAP/ECM interaction seems fine for light ECM carriers. Heavier ECM mechs I expect to suffer more. Maybe you need to stagger the effect where BAP cancels the cloaking effect on other mechs at full range but has to get close to uncloak the mech carrying ECM.

Edited by Gauvan, 12 November 2014 - 07:35 PM.


#57 Dino Might

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:36 PM

I think a slightly smaller radius would be good. 240m sounds pretty good. I don't like that it meshes all too perfectly for clan streaks. I also think it turns more ecm lights into snipers, when some of them used to be a bit better suited to skirmishing and sneaking up on assaults. I'm thinking of the next ECM mech that comes out with medium lasers or something similar as primary armament. It's at a serious disadvantage if it's effective range is completely within BAP range to cancel out its ECM.

ETA: Gauvan has a great idea - counter range for ECM shielded mechs is 360, but for the ECM carrier, it's in the 200s.

Good to see you on the forums, locust brother.

Edited by Dino Might, 12 November 2014 - 07:38 PM.


#58 ManDaisy

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:38 PM

I rather like the bigger radius of bap, but then again Streak srms have no chance of missing and are glitch as hell sooo....

Edited by ManDaisy, 12 November 2014 - 07:38 PM.


#59 Bartholomew bartholomew

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:44 PM

keep the range. Although I have not noticed any difference in use. ECM still wins hands down. It probably really ought to give some warning of ECM out to longer ranges like seismic does, that is in TT rules AFAIK.

#60 Damien Tokala

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 07:53 PM

ID USE IT IF YOU BUFFED THE CLAN ONE TOO!





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