134 replies to this topic

[QuantumButler]

Hitreg is broken for every single mech, granted some more than others, it's really noticeable on lights because speed compounds it, coupled with their already generally small hitboxes, jumpjets confound hitreg too, which is why flying timberwolves are so hard to kill, and why Shadow Hawks are deceptively survivable despite their huge size and the fact they generally run XL engines.

The point is, the only real way to nerf them easily is to either nerf the lasers they use, which hurts every other mech in the game that wants to use them and is really a bad idea, or to fix/improve hitreg, which they need to do anyway. Even if you take away all of the quirks of the firestarter, guess waht, pre quirks it was still a murderbeast for al ight mech, if you kill spls they just go back to 8 medlas/6 medlas +2mg/7medlas+dual ams/4medlas/medpulse+4mg and people will still complain.

The only real choice is to fix hitreg so lightmechs can't tank damage better than many heavies.

Hitreg was okay for a while, but it broke again recently.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 November 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

yup, nothing wrong with them hitboxes, registration, at all.

There is a reason I almost never play my Firestarters. Too easy.

The reason why they are too easy is immaterial to me, they just are. I only have them because I needed a "competitive" Light for when my unit thought it wanted to get serious, and I hate Jenners so much that I refused even to buy the Oxide when it was on sale and I had MC enough to do so twice.

[Bishop Steiner]

QuantumButler, on 14 November 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

Hitreg is broken for every single mech, granted some more than others, it's really noticeable on lights because speed compounds it, coupled with their already generally small hitboxes, jumpjets confound hitreg too, which is why flying timberwolves are so hard to kill, and why Shadow Hawks are deceptively survivable despite their huge size and the fact they generally run XL engines.

The point is, the only real way to nerf them easily is to either nerf the lasers they use, which hurts every other mech in the game that wants to use them and is really a bad idea, or to fix/improve hitreg, which they need to do anyway. Even if you take away all of the quirks of the firestarter, guess waht, pre quirks it was still a murderbeast for al ight mech, if you kill spls they just go back to 8 medlas/6 medlas +2mg/7medlas+dual ams/4medlas/medpulse+4mg and people will still complain.

The only real choice is to fix hitreg so lightmechs can't tank damage better than many heavies.

Hitreg was okay for a while, but it broke again recently.

Yup., 2-3 patches ago it tanked, hard.

Of course, had they looked at Firestarters in general, they would have figured that thanks to hitbox design, consistent hit registry issues, and such, that they probably ALL were tier 2. The Ember was just preeminent, and relatively cheap, thus it was the most used.

The others were hardly "bad" before the Quirks.

Yeonne Greene, on 14 November 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

There is a reason I almost never play my Firestarters. Too easy.

The reason why they are too easy is immaterial to me, they just are. I only have them because I needed a "competitive" Light for when my unit thought it wanted to get serious, and I hate Jenners so much that I refused even to buy the Oxide when it was on sale and I had MC enough to do so twice.

It should be material to you, as it comes down to broken core mechanics.

FS9s have been exploited for so long, because 70-80% of the time, I can nail one dead to rights and magically, nearly no damage occurs. Red reticle flash, enemy mech shows damage, but oddly an ac20 or 2, get spread all over the torso and arms. ABout the only semi-reliable answer is LRMs, (SRMSs are decent too, at PBR), but I can't count the number of times I have seen Lights taking streams of LRMs from my MadDog that would have felled a Dire Wolf, and kept running.

[QuantumButler]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 November 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Yup., 2-3 patches ago it tanked, hard.

Of course, had they looked at Firestarters in general, they would have figured that thanks to hitbox design, consistent hit registry issues, and such, that they probably ALL were tier 2. The Ember was just preeminent, and relatively cheap, thus it was the most used.

The others were hardly "bad" before the Quirks.

The tiers were more based on what mechs people got tons of kills in than their actual subjective power [though many many of the quirked machines were, in fact, bad robots, not all of them were], everyone used Jenners and Ravens, so they got super high tiers and thus **** all for quirks, while the arguably superior firestarters were underplayed so they got good quriks, and now everyone has realized it and has switched to them.

Edited by QuantumButler, 14 November 2014 - 10:26 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

QuantumButler, on 14 November 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

The tiers were more based on what mechs people got tons of kills in than their actual subjective power [though many many of the quirked machines were, in fact, bad robots, not all of them were], everyone used Jenners, so they got super high tiers and thus **** all for quirks, while the arguably superior firestarters were underplayed so they got good quriks, and now everyone has realized it and has switched to them.

Exactly. I tried to tell them they were tiering them on the wrong criteria (aka what do the comps use) and such. Heck, only reason ShDs went to tier 2 is every compy was running Storm Crows.

[Y E O N N E]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 November 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

Yup., 2-3 patches ago it tanked, hard.

Of course, had they looked at Firestarters in general, they would have figured that thanks to hitbox design, consistent hit registry issues, and such, that they probably ALL were tier 2. The Ember was just preeminent, and relatively cheap, thus it was the most used.

The others were hardly "bad" before the Quirks.


It should be material to you, as it comes down to broken core mechanics.

FS9s have been exploited for so long, because 70-80% of the time, I can nail one dead to rights and magically, nearly no damage occurs. Red reticle flash, enemy mech shows damage, but oddly an ac20 or 2, get spread all over the torso and arms. ABout the only semi-reliable answer is LRMs, (SRMSs are decent too, at PBR), but I can't count the number of times I have seen Lights taking streams of LRMs from my MadDog that would have felled a Dire Wolf, and kept running.

Why should it be material? I don't use them except rarely, so it's not like I'm trolling the queue with it. You're more likely to find me in a Locust when I'm running Lights, and I'm almost as effective in those.

I also don't have problems killing them. While hitreg issues seem to be rampant for everybody else, I have noticed almost nothing.

[Bishop Steiner]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 November 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Why should it be material? I don't use them except rarely, so it's not like I'm trolling the queue with it. You're more likely to find me in a Locust when I'm running Lights, and I'm almost as effective in those.

I also don't have problems killing them. While hitreg issues seem to be rampant for everybody else, I have noticed almost nothing.

well I guess if it's all about you, then no it should not matter.

Now since it's all about the game, and community, yeah, it does.

[Y E O N N E]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 November 2014 - 10:10 AM, said:

There is a reason I almost never play my Firestarters. Too easy.

The reason why they are too easy is immaterial to me, they just are. I only have them because I needed a "competitive" Light for when my unit thought it wanted to get serious, and I hate Jenners so much that I refused even to buy the Oxide when it was on sale and I had MC enough to do so twice.

I rest my case, good sir.

[DasSibby]

It's a risky mech, which is why it's so fun!

I view it as trying for a Hail Mary pass, if you get it... Everyone goes crazy. If you miss? Spectacular failure.

It's a risky mech, which is why it's so fun!

I view it as trying for a Hail Mary pass, if you get it... Everyone goes crazy. If you miss? Spectacular failure.

[DrxAbstract]

Crunk Prime, on 14 November 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

-150kph
-1 JJ
-8 small pulse lasers/8 small lasers
-32 damage alpha strike for pulse/24 damage for regular
-can fire about every 3 seconds with cooldown modules and pilot tree skills
-very little heat generated
-Extremely short range
-Long heat dissipation time
-Takes 2 hits from most common enemy builds to cripple/kill
-No ECM
-LoL Clan Streaks...


Its a little balanced. I'm not good.

Fixed that for you.

[Bacon_Warrior88]

Just deal with it. Sorry if something under 75 tons (exception "Crows") can compete.

This was a carry too, Which makes it even better!

[Krivvan]

The A is very good in terms of pure damage output, but requires very close range. This gives it a strong weakness that can be exploited (but it's more likely to put out killer games).

The K isn't very good imo. Overshadowed by the A in every way.

The H is actually the best overall Firestarter though at the moment.

[Greenjulius]

Krivvan, on 14 November 2014 - 08:38 PM, said:

The A is very good in terms of pure damage output, but requires very close range. This gives it a strong weakness that can be exploited (but it's more likely to put out killer games).

The K isn't very good imo. Overshadowed by the A in every way.

The H is actually the best overall Firestarter though at the moment.

After grinding through those 3 mech's basics this evening, I totally agree. I could have awesome games in the A, merely okay in the K, and my most reliable games in the H. The H is simply better now than the Jenner F. The 6xML build is quite strong. I can't imagine how good it will be once I master it.

The A is very difficult to have good games with when you get a big open map like Alpine or Caustic. Mining Colony however is like a playground for it.

The K is just too short range, too hot, to little damage. The H is like an upgraded version of it. I don't see why anyone would use the K.

Edited by Greenjulius, 14 November 2014 - 09:58 PM.

[Lando Kufahl]

I've never seen a mech so OP in this game before. Most players run away from these 8spl Firestarters! There's units abusing the fact they have broken hitboxes and op loadout/perks running 3 at a time really messing up the balance. No light has a chance at besting one of these1 on 1 so it's not right. Nerf time

[Y E O N N E]

I don't run away from them. Up close (<50 m), it's really hard to get all of the guns to converge at one point on the target while moving. You can easily exploit this in a 1 v 1 light duel to leg that dirty SoB and the finish him at your leisure.

[R Razor]

Yeonne Greene, on 27 November 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

I don't run away from them. Up close (<50 m), it's really hard to get all of the guns to converge at one point on the target while moving. You can easily exploit this in a 1 v 1 light duel to leg that dirty SoB and the finish him at your leisure.

I can vouch for that, this &%($ did it to me in a match tonight.

[luxebo]

Crunk Prime, on 14 November 2014 - 02:04 AM, said:

-150kph
-JJ's
-8 small pulse lasers/8 small lasers
-32 damage alpha strike for pulse/24 damage for regular
-can fire about every 2 seconds with cooldown modules and pilot tree skills
-very little heat generated

Its a little too good.

Nerf Firestarter so that 2% light que goes down to 1%. Sounds good!

[Joey Tankblaster]

I wouldn't nerf them. Firestarters are extremely prone to LRMs, they are easily legged. Just don't shoot the torsos.

[Octantis]

A's are as much risk vs reward as a Dire Wolf is. They take skill to operate effectively and poor skill is dealt with harshly.

Granted they are blessed with some decent hit boxes. They aren't a walking CT like a Jenner and don't have legs like a Locust.

The -A isn't killing you the fact that they are now running spl is. Because of SPL the tactics have changed. There's no reason to poke your head out any more for a 270m shot. You keep bouncing from cover and flanking until you get into the back of those tasty LRM boats or direct fire assault snipers sitting 400m from the rest of their team. You weren't paying attention and now you pay the price.

Lights have always been strong against assaults. Now with quirks more people are trying them out and finding success. Nerf the quirks and they will still continue to kick your ass.

[Octantis]

Lando Kufahl, on 27 November 2014 - 05:16 PM, said:

I've never seen a mech so OP in this game before. Most players run away from these 8spl Firestarters! There's units abusing the fact they have broken hitboxes and op loadout/perks running 3 at a time really messing up the balance. No light has a chance at besting one of these1 on 1 so it's not right. Nerf time

No light has a chance? Hah! A Jenner F, Jenner D with streaks, Oxide, would make short work of this guy. You die because you run. How can you hope to win a fight when he's looking at your back?

As for all the other mechs out there? Sorry your Front Load Damage easy win button found a good strong counter. Strapping the largest guns to the largest mechs may get you kills against the big boys. It will just get you killed against the lights. Make a balanced build or stick close to your team and you'll see how useless the A's short range weaponry is.

Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock. It's what makes MWO so great.