25 replies to this topic

[Archangel Dino]

When I purchase an Inner Sphere Mech (Catapult), my first thought is to automatically change the Standard Engine to an XL Engine (saves tonnage).

However, I also have this inherent belief that I must always equip the heaviest engine because it'll kick out the best max. speed for my Mech.

That would mean going from 64.8km/h (Default) to 78.5km/h for the Catapult.

My question is: should I be worried about that extra +14km/h, or should I just keep the default speed and save tonnage space, because if I do remain at 64.8km/h, I'll have more tonnage towards weapons and heat sinks.

So in other words: Which is preferred, weapons and heat sinks, or speed?

[Durant Carlyle]

In general, speed is most important for lights, mediums, and even heavies. Specific situations or builds can be exceptions of course.

Higher-rating engines also give the best torso-twist speed.

[Elizander]

Speed is always good because it can get you in position and out of trouble. That said, you need to balance it with your weapon loadout. Most people will go with a 300XL on their Catapults (or I sometimes use 280XLs) instead of 315XL because you can use the 300XL/280XL on many other mechs where as the 315XL is mostly a niche engine type.

If you are always shutting down or not participating in a fight on maps like Caustic / Terra Therma then you will need cooler weapons or more heatsinks. Damage is always important. If you can't hurt anything you won't really be contributing to the match but if you're shutting down every other shot then that's a bad thing too. It is something you will have to balance out for your playstyle.

[InspectorG]

Kinda depends on how you are gonna play.

Example for the K2.

64 kph if you play on supporting the Assaults.

Faster if you hang with the mediums.

The other parts of the engine equation:

Do you brawl? You will want a STD engine most of the time.
Fire support or striking/flanking, use XL.

Catapults are very XL-friendly(small side torso). XL300 fits most builds.

The other question is:
Are you going Dual Gauss? Dual AC20? Dual AC10?
Space and weight for ammo will factor in.

Dual Gauss doesnt need extra DHS. AC10 might if you add 3-4 ML to the build.

The A is best with 6LRM5 with Artemis. Dont expect tons of damage but you can suppress people with constant LRM to the face. Its a troll build but it works in Puglandia.

The others? I hear LRM15 is the best launcher for weight/space/damage/heat...i usually dont LRM so others can give better advice.

[Redshift2k5]

You don't always want the biggest engine, I find Catapults run great with a 300xl, and Jagermechs tend more towards 280.

Sometimes going to the maximum engine is just running into diminishing returns, so you want ot hit a sweet spot with speed and weight efficiency. For lights and smaller mediums liek the BJ, you want to be pretty close to the max engine size, but some mechs have a decent engine to begin with and don't need as much of an upgrade

[NadeMagnet]

Speed is life. For all classes of mechs. For me at least. People still laugh that I kept the 400xl in my Boars Head. Until they watch me run around at 71kph doing far more damage then they did in their atlas going 55 with more weapons and survivability. Being more fragile is offset by being able to get out of sticky situations and back to cover. Not to mention what you can do with the extra weight. What many people don't consider is engine size does not just control forward speed it also controls handling speed. Like simple things like turning in a circle.
That being said I go with a standard engine if I can. And aside from the boars head and misery that have max engines none of the other 18 mechs I have come close to max engine. Just automatically trying to put a max engine is a good way to be a speedy ineffectual mech.

Can't help you further without knowing what your going for though. Is that going to be a LRM support mech? A Sniper? Speedy hit and run type like I got my 96kph jester? Need more info if you want better advice.

[luxebo]

Assuming you are asking directly for the Catapult:

XL is much better due to the tiny tiny tiny side torsos. XL 300+ will do very well depending on role, and faster is generally better for the cat (in my experience anyway), even more so if you aren't being an LRM boat on the sidelines or a gauss/longer ranged catapult in the far areas.

XL however isn't capable with AC20s, which prompts the AC40 cat to be a zombie, but very slow in speed. Basically, speed vs armor vs weapons. The best mix usually works wonders, but some edge cases appear.

[Redshift2k5]

NadeMagnet, on 18 November 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Speed is life. For all classes of mechs. For me at least. People still laugh that I kept the 400xl in my Boars Head. Until they watch me run around at 71kph doing far more damage then they did in their atlas going 55 with more weapons and survivability. Being more fragile is offset by being able to get out of sticky situations and back to cover. Not to mention what you can do with the extra weight. What many people don't consider is engine size does not just control forward speed it also controls handling speed. Like simple things like turning in a circle.
That being said I go with a standard engine if I can. And aside from the boars head and misery that have max engines none of the other 18 mechs I have come close to max engine. Just automatically trying to put a max engine is a good way to be a speedy ineffectual mech.

Can't help you further without knowing what your going for though. Is that going to be a LRM support mech? A Sniper? Speedy hit and run type like I got my 96kph jester? Need more info if you want better advice.

Not so sure about the Atlas, but the Banshee with a 400xl ends up being more survivable than a smaller standard engine mainly due to vastly better torso twist. I wouldn't suggest the XL for an Atlas though, but the Boar's Head is a bit of an edge case.

[Inveramsay]

XL300 is probably the biggest I'd want to use in a cat as the weights start going up very quickly after that and the extra 5% in speed isn't worth it. Most of my mechs run bigger than standard engines as the whole meta is faster than stock. Having more speed will never be a disadvantage as long as you have enough weapons to back it up with. When I ran my LRM cat on the other hand I put an xl245 in there as I had one lying around and that worked well. Speed wasn't impressive but I could carry a lot of LRMs instead. The ideal engine sizes for a catapult I'd say are 280xl or 300xl

[Satan n stuff]

Redshift2k5, on 18 November 2014 - 10:26 PM, said:

Not so sure about the Atlas, but the Banshee with a 400xl ends up being more survivable than a smaller standard engine mainly due to vastly better torso twist. I wouldn't suggest the XL for an Atlas though, but the Boar's Head is a bit of an edge case.

It's not worth it on any Atlas, the 400 XL weighs almost as much as a 350 standard and gives you only a small speed increase over it, while you are extremely likely to lose a sidetorso first in an Atlas so it ends up cutting your effective durability in half or worse.

[MrEdweird]

It's less important now than it was before due to the introduction of clan mechs that can go pretty fast and carry good firepower. Often times you want to have more survivability nowadays but it depends on the mech. You can't go slow in a Cicada for example.

[Shlkt]

Speed is important for light mechs because they need to disengage in a hurry.
Speed is important for narrow mechs (e.g. shadow hawk) because they're more likely to avoid damage completely when the enemy is forced to lead them with slow projectiles.
Speed is important for short-range builds, because you cannot contribute to the fight until you close the distance.

The Catapult is none of those things. However, the Catapult has tiny side torsos. An XL engine is [almost] a risk-free upgrade in a Catapult. Consider going with a slower XL, though, to free space for additional weapons.

The other advantage of a big engine is twist speed. Twist speed is often more important to me than running speed. Unfortunately it's also harder to judge the merits of twist speed without experimentation. The benefits are multiplied, though, by unlocking all the elite skills of your 'mech; until you've accomplished that you haven't really experienced the mech in optimal conditions.

[mad kat]

How long is a peice of string?

Mech speed is entirely relative. To what weapons you have, what playstyle you use, who's around you friend and foe and what's around you. Generally speaking the faster the better but thats not always the case. Lights yeah need to go quick but there is such a thing as too fast.

A rule of thumb is to aim for decent enough fire power (having for the guns of Navarone isn't always the best despite what some may say) for the role and playstyle intended then next work on heat efficiency then manipulate your armour on what best fits the mech then adjust your engine size to suit.

My catapult A1 uses an xl 255. It's entirely dependant on ammo and with 6 slots to fill needs some weight saving. It goes fast enough to get into position where needed and has enough tonnage for 2xlrm20's and four streaks. If i wanted to run SRM's i'd put a big xl engine it as once those ears go there's no point having a STD engine. But as this is a indirect fire support mech it can go slowish and using an xl to spare tonnage

Edited by mad kat, 19 November 2014 - 07:30 AM.

[Voivode]

Like a lot of posters have said, max engines and XL engines depend on what you're doing with the mech.

In general, a max XL should go into every light mech. I have 15 light mechs and only 1 has less than the max engine.

Mediums benefit from speed. You should go a MINIMUM of 80KPH in a medium. After that, it's really up to you as far was what you'd like to do. XL vs Standard in mediums kind of depends on what you want to do with, the only exception being Cicada which should always have large XL engines.

Some heavies are XL friendly (Dragon, Catapult) and some aren't (Thunderbolt, Orion). Others can do well either way, depending on the build (Jagermech, Cataphract). In general, a MINIMUM speed of 70KPH is good for heavies.

Assaults have very few XL friendly mechs. In general a big standard engine is what you want. I have a few specialized assaults that go mid to low 50s in speed, but for the most part I try to be above 60KPH on my assaults.


As another poster said, speed IS important for all mechs, but there is a point of diminishing returns, where you dedicate so much to speed that it hampers your ability to output damage.

[Turist0AT]

Depends on the game mode you play. In conqest ist pretty important on the other modes not so much because most ppl just stand around and slug it out.

Was a long time ago i played team death match and assault, should prob go back and play it so that i dont stand here lying

Edited by Turist0AT, 19 November 2014 - 08:06 AM.

[Omi_]

Archangel Dino, on 18 November 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

When I purchase an Inner Sphere Mech (Catapult), my first thought is to automatically change the Standard Engine to an XL Engine (saves tonnage).

However, I also have this inherent belief that I must always equip the heaviest engine because it'll kick out the best max. speed for my Mech.

That would mean going from 64.8km/h (Default) to 78.5km/h for the Catapult.

My question is: should I be worried about that extra +14km/h, or should I just keep the default speed and save tonnage space, because if I do remain at 64.8km/h, I'll have more tonnage towards weapons and heat sinks.

So in other words: Which is preferred, weapons and heat sinks, or speed?

It so very much depends on what you're doing. The closer you are to the front line, the more you will probably want speed. In a catapult specifically, there is good reason to choose more weapon tonnage than sheer speed (unless you're boating SRMs, in which case I'd say speed is still better).

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

Speed is life

[Alienized]

my TBT goes 75, hides with the fatties and never gets attention speed is good but not necessary if you sacrifice too much for it.

[Raziberry]

"You go slow...you die."
-Sgt. Deadeye

[M4NTiC0R3X]

Depends on what you're trying to accomplish. Realistically you can stick with the group and do plenty of damage around 80 - 100. It's when you need to be everywhere at once or out manuver the bigs mechs if possible... That's when a bigger engine (speed, handling, cooling) helps.

I own pretty much every engine so I can try lots of firepower vs equipment vs speed load outs