37 replies to this topic

[AgarethPT]

FYI: I do tend to make long posts and I apologise for that in advance. There is a TLDR thingy at the bottom if you dont waht to go through the wall of text below.

Hey guys,

I'm REALLY new to MWO and I'm strugling a bit with my role ingame.

I had litle experience with the genre offline (3 games) and none online so, I decided to take a support(ish) role while I learn the ropes and for that I went the LRM boat way.
"GAWWWWWWD.....Why another LRM newb?????" You may ask.....
- Because I really am a newb
- Because I still have trouble controling the mech and the more I stay in the back the less I move and the less I move the less I screw up

So, I did my 25 first games, got some money and decided to get my first Mech and for that I bought the Catapult. Now, I understand it isn't THE smartest choice but looking at the specs, with the money I had and knowing I wanted an LRM boat it felt a solid enough choice.
Now to the mess up (keep in mind I'm a newb ) I went for the C4 because "hey... the more missile points the better right??". At that point in time I though I could change my specs a lot more freely but sadly I now understand I can't and I'm stuck with, what feels to me, an unbalanced Mech (good thing I dodged the A1 ). Had I knew I couldn't change that initial configuration I'd go for the C1 but it's too late now.

I've been toying arround with different specs (and a lot of money) to try and make it work. If I 'married' the thing I may as well right?
For the life of me I can't make it work well enough to make me feel as I'm pulling my own weight, all 65 tons of it .

I tried the initial setup with 2x20LRM and what feels like 2 squirt guns. Needless to say I get wrecked if something sneaks up on me and I carry low ammo numbers.
Got rid of jump jets to make room for ammo. Feels better. But still wrecked in closer combat.
Tried 1x20LRM 2x6 SRM 1 Large Laser. Looked more balanced but the results proved otherwise and my long range capabilities where far worse.
Tried 1xLong Range Laser and 4x6 SRM for close combat.... nahhhh
Now trying 4x10 LRM firing one at a time to control heat a bit and keep a constant flow of missiles at a target stressing it up enough for some one in my team hopefuly get the kill. Kept the double squirt gun and fitted a AMS with a full clip of ammo (which I never go though).

Doesn't matter what I try I still do REALY LOW ammounts of damage. A good game would be doing like 150. Anything above that is AMAZING but more often then not I get under 100.


TLDR - New player bought a CATA C4 and can't make it work despite half a dozen different setups tried.

What am I doing wrong? What do I need to do better?

Thanks in advance for all the feedback.

[Feuerfuss]

For most CAT setups an XL engine is essential because of the small side torso.
Maybe you should try something like this:

CPLT-C4

Good speed, makes good use of the quirks, somewhat medium to low in ammo, but you got the MLasers for close defence.

[Feuerfuss]

btw:
Offline mechlab: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab
All mech/weaponstats: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/
Nice qirk list: http://snafets.de/mwo/quirks.htm

and also nice build ideas can be found here:
https://www.mechspecs.com/

Edited by Feuerfuss, 20 November 2014 - 03:54 AM.

[Feuerfuss]

This looks like a nice build for the C1:
CPLT-C1

For nooobs: Zero dmg with LRMs up to 120m range and above 1000m on IS with IS LRMs

Tip: With LRM try out the "sensor range" module. It will boost your sensor range from std 800m to 1000m at level 2. Bap adds another 200m up to 1200m sensor range.

[Feuerfuss]

another useful module:

Target decay: when losing line-of-sight, target stays locked somewhat longer

Most important: use the "R" key if you havent by now.

Use TAG "weapon" to speed up target locking and to make ECM shielded targets, uhm, targetable.

[mad kat]

Whats wrong with the A1? I use one with XL255 2xlrm20 and four streak srm2's with plenty of ammo for each. Does just fine.

But yeah a Catapult really benefits from an XL engine and Double heat sinks but then that little lot costs as much as another Cat. Bit of a PITA. Anyway with the Lurm boat stay behind your team usually no more than a grid squares distance behind them so if the enemy try to flank you or a light runs up behind you and surprises you get towards your team mates pronto. BUT you want the enemy to shoot their target that's closest to them, i.e. your teams front line mechs or brawlers. Try not to get singled out in a Cat either.

Most importantly to a catapult LRM pilot and most other LRM boats too is to use your minimap it's vital in seeing how many of your friendlies probably have line of sight with the enemy don't go firing your LRM's at a red Dorrito that has very few friendlies near him as in all likelyhood by the time your missiles are on their way the lock will be lost. Look for the red triangle that is close to your team mates and shoot him. Not only is the law of probability gonna mean that lock will stay but it is also vital in helping damage limitation on your team mates. If you see a TAG or especially Narc marker rain as many missiles on that mech as you can as you will do impressive damage until he can find cover with AMS or buildings Etc etc. If someone is bothering to light up targets from LRM support Use it and be sure to thank them for their hard work.

Edited by mad kat, 20 November 2014 - 04:38 AM.

[AgarethPT]

Feuerfuss, on 20 November 2014 - 03:49 AM, said:

For most CAT setups an XL engine is essential because of the small side torso.
Maybe you should try something like this:

CPLT-C4

Good speed, makes good use of the quirks, somewhat medium to low in ammo, but you got the MLasers for close defence.

Hey

I really apreciate all the info.

I'm still REALLY low on cash to try all this stuff (have arround 1.9Mil). The XL alone will cost me an arm and a leg to get and tbh, I don't even know where to find the Artemis thing
Also, doesn't the XL take more space then STD?? Don't hurt me.... still a newb

This brings me to another subject; Why are some items Blocked (the 4x magnifying thing for example)?

Anyway, I'm glad to see I'm on the right track since you also fitted 4x10LRM in your build. At least I got that far.....

I'm seriously thinking about retarting and being a bit smarter with my money. It'l take far less time completing the 25 starting games then earning enough money now to do whatever with the mech I got.

What do you think??

[Unnatural Growth]

I don't run Catapults myself, but I do have a couple of LRM boats. As for your mech, I don't know what upgrades you have already done, but putting in Dual Heat Sinks (DHS), should really be your first upgrade to almost any mech in game. Assuming you have not upgraded heat sinks, or structure, I would try this for a temp build until you can upgrade both:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...cfb0d3c2cde17ee

I would place your ammo in your legs. I have your armor bumped up from stock levels, but I didn't front load it much (take armor off of back and place it on front for more frontal protection). And I got rid of your small lasers for mediums, which are more general purpose imho.

Upgrading heat sinks to Duals will increase your heat dissipation, and upgrading your structure to Endo Steel, will free up some tonnage for some more heat sinks. Once you can afford it, the next upgrade should be an XL engine, but DHS's and Endo should come first imo.

As far as playing the LRM boat, don't just sit in the back and lob missiles at everything that has a red taco chip on it. Try and stay right behind your lead mechs, just behind the brawlers, and lock your own targets visually when you can. Then you're lobbing missiles at targets you can actually hit, instead of lobbing 4 tons of LRM's into the side of a hill or building. Stay with your "blob" of team mates, and focus down targets as you get locks on them. If you see a UAV go up (launched by a team mate), then it's a "free for all" on targets, and take down the assaults and enemy LRM boats first.

Watch your heat, until you can upgrade to DHS's, you should really only be "chain firing" those launchers.

[Feuerfuss]

You can also have a look at the LRM commandmends
http://mwomercs.com/...m-commandments/

Some of them are prone to discussion but you'll get a picture on how to use LRMs

One last important thing: stay out of trouble and MOVE after your double rainbow action. Lights will most likely to show up and eat your CAT for breakfast. Dont be alone but don't be in the first line of mechs. Stay in second or even better the third line and pick some busy targets engaged in in trouble with your bigger buddies.

[Feuerfuss]

AgarethPT, on 20 November 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

Hey

I really apreciate all the info.

I don't even know where to find the Artemis thing
Also, doesn't the XL take more space then STD?? Don't hurt me.... still a newb

This brings me to another subject; Why are some items Blocked (the 4x magnifying thing for example)?

Artemis should be in the upgrade options. 1,5Mills of C-Bills

The XL takes up more space, and if one of your side torsi is gone you will be also, but frees up much valuable tons

Modules must be unlocked with GXP. That is general XP you earn with every match, aside of the XP earned you your mech.

[mad kat]

Artemis is a bit of a Marmite thing. For the increased space and tonnage it uses the gain is for the most part negligable well in my experience anyway. Narc is by far the best way of improving LRM accuracy and damage but it's hard to use effectively and really doesnt work that well fitted to the LRM carrying mech.

To get the Zoom and other modules you need to unlock them with GXP in the pilot section of the skills tree and then buy the one module but they are absurdly expensive so for that reason do not get hung up on these Ive been playing this game for a few years now and not bothered with the modules but in the long term they can help.

Xl does take up more space but is also comparatively lighter meaning you can fit a bigger engine in which also has the added bonus of more engine internal heat sinks. I.e. getting an xl means you can go faster for the same weight and will have more heatsinks built in meaning you have to fit less heat sinks into the remaining space to achieve the minimum of ten heat sinks.

unfortunately the money thing is just a case of saving and you can sell of any unwanted items in the inventory but be warned doing so means you only get 50% of their worth meaning if you want them again you will end up having to pay 150% for the one item.

Edited by mad kat, 20 November 2014 - 05:07 AM.

[Feuerfuss]

AgarethPT, on 20 November 2014 - 04:34 AM, said:

I'm seriously thinking about retarting and being a bit smarter with my money. It'l take far less time completing the 25 starting games then earning enough money now to do whatever with the mech I got.

Some of the equipment is supposed to be top tier equipment. I think we all made some mistakes when starting. I bought a commando for my first mech, which was reaaaally bad but also good, because i found out i'm a ****** light pilot.

You can start over or make the best out of what you have.

[John1352]

The catapult C1 was my second mech, and was the one that I actually started to get kills in. My first was a JR7-F, which I only learned to use properly after a lot of playing, and now is the one I have the highest damage in.

With the C4, you're really going to want to specialize in either long or short range, mixed builds are unlikely to go well on that mech. An XL engine will help it, but it can do alright with a standard. I recommend the 300XL, unless you already know you want to play a mech that is capped at 295 (like the firestarter).

Players spend a lot of time in game taking positions where they can avoid LRMs, especially in the early stages of the game. You may find you can do a lot more damage in the middle and end parts of the game. Try to stay with (but slightly behind) your team, and use indirect fire when you can. Think of your role as putting extra fire into an enemy who is brawling with a teammate.

I've made two builds using as many stock components as possible, make sure you have the double heatsink upgrade, and endo-steel structure. (avoid ferro fibrous armor on everything except smaller light mechs). Double heatsinks are like a 1.5m space tax on your mech, you need to pay it or suffer overheating.

LRM mech: CPLT-C4 You said you have LRM10s, I used 3 so more ammo could be fitted, you will end up missing a lot of shots. You could also replace one of the medium lasers with a TAG laser if ECM mechs are giving you trouble.

SRM brawler: CPLT-C4 This one is for getting up close and hitting really hard. The catapult kind of has bad hitboxes for this playstyle, but all those SRMs can cause a lot of damage. The pulse lasers can be swapped with normal ones if you don't want to spend more.

EDIT: I'd stick with this account, the catapult is really a pretty good starting mech, and you'll likely be buying more soon to unlock elite skills.

Edited by John1352, 20 November 2014 - 05:01 AM.

[Revorn]

Well for playing your first Mech, your Damagenumbers looking fine to me.

Next step seems to be, to get more practice. LRMs are very Situation dependent, so Damagenumbers may stay a long time Low. Even after thousands of played Games and gathering much Experience you can end up with thouse Numbers in Games. Damage done trough LRMs, depending much on your Enemys abillity to handle LRMs.

One Tip for the Start maybe, Stay relative close to your Team. Shorter Misslefligthpaths may lead to an increase in good and hard to dodge Hitts.

With some experience you will know the Positions, when you dont want to waste shoots, because you know then, your Opponent is at an save Place and Figthpath dont gives you an Hitt.

Go on with training and you will getting better at LURMing, but never expect to be as devasting as the Directfire Mechs.

[Elizander]

The most important thing for an LRM boat is to not be useless when you can't LRM. You can't say if teammates will lock or if you have to fight enemies using cover. You will need weapons to drive off light mechs too. You will have to learn how to shoot with other weapons eventually.

[Ballimbo]

Just a quick note on the upgrades in mechlab:

Artemis, Endo-Steel (Structure), Double-Heatsinks are all so called upgrades (in the UI).
In the Mechlab, when you have clicked on configure for the mech, you get that Menu on the left with loadout etc. (which you already used). In that menu there is the item upgrades - there you'll find all those things mentioned above.

But be aware, every upgrade comes with some restraints (apart of the CBills cost).
Endo-Steel will free up some tonnage, but will take up 14 critslots (so you'll have less space for your equipment). Double-Heatsinks cool better as singles heatsinks and weigh the same (1 Ton each), but will take up 3 critslots whereas single only take 1 slot. (only the engine-internal heatsinks will be effectively doubled at no penalty)
And concerning Artemis, it will increase the weight of every missile launcher (LRM or SRM) by 1 Ton and its bulk also by 1 critslot. In Addition you have to replace every launcher by an "Artemis-Version", which means you have to buy it (with CBills) in that version. And the ammunition too, you need to buy "Artemis Ammo".

Little hint: before upgrading the guidance to Artemis, take all missiles launcher and ammo out from the mech (then save it) and apply the upgrade after that. So the cost for Artemis as such will be lower. You still have to buy the launchers and ammo with Artemis, but when you'll have multiple mechs in your garage chances are, to have some spare artemis launchers (or in another mech to transfer) - so you'll save a bit of CBills this way

Edited by Ballimbo, 20 November 2014 - 05:27 AM.

[Feuerfuss]

John1352, on 20 November 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

EDIT: I'd stick with this account, the catapult is really a pretty good starting mech, and you'll likely be buying more soon to unlock elite skills.

Agreed.
and if you want to try something different with your third mech give the K2 a try. Again not a frontline mech but was most played by me for long time. With clan invasion my old build is outdated but i think there can still be some fun in it.
CPLT-K2

[Ano]

AgarethPT, on 20 November 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Doesn't matter what I try I still do REALY LOW ammounts of damage. A good game would be doing like 150. Anything above that is AMAZING but more often then not I get under 100.
...
What am I doing wrong? What do I need to do better?

Lots of good suggestions here but there's a couple of playstyle things which weren't immediately obvious to me when I was shiny new (as opposed to tarnished new )

1. Locks
LRMs aren't truly fire-and-forget. They only keep tracking your target for as long as you maintain a target lock. That means if you get lock, fire off a volley of missiles, then lose track of the target while you reposition, the missiles will hit wherever the target was when you lost the lock. If the target is moving at all, that means the whole volley will miss.

Note that you don't necessarily need line-of-sight to the target -- provided someone else has them in view, you can keep your reticle over the target box to maintain the lock, even if you can't physically see the target through the building you're hiding behind!.

2. Cover
It's not always easy to tell whether your target is in cover if you're firing at targets that other team-mates have spotted but which you can't see yourself (indirect fire). There are plenty of map locations where what looks like an opportunity for indirect fire is a waste, because your target is in a tunnel system, under a platform or behind a sufficiently tall building.

Part of figuring this out will come with learning the maps (which ones have tunnels/platforms under which Mechs can move) but you can also fire a single launcher and then keep one eye on the missile flight path and the other on your target info box, which (hopefully) will have the %damaged figure showing (assuming you've been on target long enough). With some mental adjustment for launcher size vs. target size (an LRM5 hitting an Atlas doesn't do all that much) you can work out whether the mech is in good cover by how much damage it takes when your missiles arrive in the vicinity.

3. Target selection
In short: fire at the bigger targets. What you really want to do is fire at the slower targets, but until you know what's what, big=slow and little=fast. Sure, you're more likely to get a kill if your LRM40 volley lands on a Jenner than if it lands on a Dire Wolf, but you're more likely to hit the Dire Wolf. Even if the target is currently not moving, an Atlas takes longer to get going than your average Raven.


There are exceptions and caveats to all of this, of course, and you may well already be aware of these three suggestions, but the general principles might still be useful.

Good luck!

Edited by Ano, 20 November 2014 - 05:32 AM.

[Ascaloth]

Used to run a Cat C4 long ago, it was my first "money grinder" mech and i didn't upgraded its STD240 engine or even elited.

First, as a new player you should be advised that there's a Skill Tree for every mech. Having a single Catapult, you have access to the Basic Tree, where you can reduce heat, increase total heat capacity, increase torso twist speed and limits, improve acceleration and braking. Take a look in the button "Skills" ingame then select your Catapult on the list.

Second, don't regret buying this variant. It's pretty nice and, if you like Catapults and want to get the maximum effect from them, you WILL have to buy at least another 2 variants! Be ready for a long journey, my friend! But don't worry, it's funny - not frustrating as some haters say.

"Hory sheet Ascaloth, you are telling me i need to fill 3 of my 4 mechbays with Catapults? WHY?"
To become a Catapult pokemon Master, you have to catch'em all! Once 3 variants of the same mech gets all the Basic Skills, you will have access to the glorious Elite Tree, where you'll get a VERY NICE +10% top speed, weapon cooldown reduction, weapon convergence reduction and shutdown/power on time reduction. Nice, eh?
Once you get all the Elite skills for those 3 Catapult variants, you will become a Master - not only for Catapults, but for ALL heavy mechs, and no longer need 3 Heavy Mechs variants to reach the Master Skill...well...still need for the Elites, go figure...
Oh, the Master Skill is an extra Module Slot. Seems useless but, believe me, it's not.

Once you become a Catapult Master, you can sell the variants you don't like (most people sells only the A1 or the C4, because they are not sooo different). You don't lose any skills when you sell a Mech.

My old build in C4 was:
4 LRM10 launchers of doom with Artemis: When chainfired, creates a consistent rain of doom over someone (that might freak out and come running to the forums complain about how LRM are overpowered). I like LRM10+Artemis because they don't spread much.

TAG laser: A very useful tool. Enemy mechs under ECM (Electronic Counter Measure) cover can't be targeted with R, so it's a pain in the arse for your LRM boat. TAG helps with this, making them target-able (for your entire team, haha!) with increased lock speed.

Medium Laser: If you don't have ANY weapons capable of short range (LRMs have minimum range of 180m) any light mech that come across you will love to park by your side and watch you die slowly and painfully to his pesky weapons. A single medium laser is enough to make them move away (most of the time). Also, if you run out of LRM ammo, this Pew Pew Med Lasor will prevent you to become an inoffensive, medieval ram. I'll never forget that match where this Laser finished out the 3 remaining mechs on the enemy force...

Ammo: At least 800 missiles. I ran more than 1000, and it never seems enough...

STD240 Engine: I didn't upgraded it, because ~money~. If you want to spend your hard earned C-Bills on a XL engine, go for a XL 255 at least (then you can buy a Spider and fit this engine on it, too). Upgrading to a XL not-much-more-than-240 will allow you to carry a bigger weapon/ammo/electronics/armor loadout.

Upgrades: Go for Dual Heat Sinks as soon as possible. It's a must have. Then get Endo Steel to free some tonnage. Don't take Ferro Fibrous Armor, since it will free just a little tonnage for lots of internal components. Artemis is also a must have for a LRM boat.

Game tips:
Don't stay away from your team. Light mechs are like wolves, hunting preys away from the main pack.
Keep an eye on the minimap, don't get flanked, don't get too close on the enemy forces.
Open your missile bays to fire faster.
If under fire, torso twist (move you mouse like crazy) to spread damage.
Stay under or near cover.
Don't stare at an enemy's face for too long, even if he's targeting a friend by your side (people love to shoot catapults, dunno why )

Sorry for the wall of text, hope it helps you somehow!

Edited by Ascaloth, 20 November 2014 - 06:01 AM.

[Koniving]

AgarethPT, on 20 November 2014 - 03:35 AM, said:

Squirt Guns

Great in Battletech, about worthless in MWO since all mechs have double armor and while you have 4x the firing rate of BT, we completely lack BT's front loaded damage for lasers.

If you use them, you should use "Pulse" versions of the SLs. Or go up to ML / MPL. Much more efficient.

That said... do you know that you have "Doors" that open and close by pressing " / " ?
If they are closed you have more protection but delay your missiles. If they are open the additional 10% protection is gone but you can fire immediately.
The following vids are pre-quirks.
Just a sort of idea here. This first one doesn't go so well at the end (skip to 3 mins in to be just before the fighting starts) but started off great.

This is effectively the same build on the same map but the results are much better though not fantastic. Again the music is pretty coincidental.


What you could try is a 'lil' version of the Roflpult. (To note the actual Roflpult has less armor than a stock Locust, but placed right it tanked pretty well when you think about it).


Instead of 6 LRM-15s you could try 2 LRM-20s with 2 LRM-10s and a couple of medium lasers or small pulse. Alternatively 2 LRM-20s with 2 Streaks.

For some reason, the quirks are:

Spoiler

• ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LT): 8.00
  
• ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RT): 8.00
  
• ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (CT): 10.00
  
• ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LA): 5.00
  
• ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RA): 5.00
  
• LRM 10 COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
  
• MISSILE COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
  
• LRM 10 HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 %
  
• MISSILE HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 %
  
• ENERGY COOLDOWN: 15.00 %
  
• ENERGY RANGE: 15.00 %

Dunno why the emphasis on LRM-10s.
Anyway.
Here we go. Maximizing the benefits of the quirks, I came up with this.
Roflpult Jr.
Trade SPLs with mediums if you prefer range over rapid anti-light shots.
This of course is a fire support build on a fire support mech. You should be second line to rear in terms of position, with the situational awareness to switch between them depending on the situation. Stand alongside a larger mech, avoid tight narrow spaces unless using them as cover (don't chase people into caves). Situate yourself somewhere, open the doors, and watch people die. If you announce what you have at the beginning (LRM boat here), you are more likely to have light, medium and assault mechs hold their targets so that you can hit them.

Always aim for a "crosshair" icon first. These targets are specifically being marked for LRMs. Take advantage of it.
Always use "R" or whatever key you changed it to in order to find a target. Use this to acquire locks.

Good luck.