17 replies to this topic

[War Kitten]

Greetings All,

First I wanted to thank those people for the Victor contest (and the prem time), it was fun and not quite as easy as some might think (at least to those of us who that are not the greatest), Thank You!

Now, having said that, I don't want to appear ungrateful for the mech (I am), I just have a few questions and hoping to get some good advice. I know I have to readjust to an assault in stead of a heavy ('Phract/Timber). For those that don't know, this chassis comes with: an 375XL w/4 DHS, 2 UAC 5s, (RA), 2 MPLs, (LA) (a spot for a 3rd, (RT) but no slot b/c of the XL), 2 SRM4, 1 SRM2 (LT).

Took it out for a spin a few times and got canned pretty quick...yah, a few adjustments to get used to and such, but thought I was getting canned a tad more quickly than I should, I could plow through w/my 'Phact 4x & her 2 AC2/2 UAC5s and do some dam before going down...and then I realized I had an XL and remembered people saying that if you lose a side torso you're done.

I recall some saying if you were in a light or lrm boat on the fringe you might be ok, but in heavy combat, not so much. I can work with the hard points it has as is to get a load I like, I was wondering if to last longer, I might switch to a standard eng of the same (22 T), or slightly more weight. You might have noticed that this model is not energy heavy, so heat isn't as much of problem (going from 4 to 1 DHS in the eng), yes I know the speed will drop from 80 to 57 or so, but, I would go into battle in my 4X @ 57 and still get around ok, and could lose almost everything but my fruit-of-the-looms and still keep going (I am not much for standing off and lurming, I tend to get in and b*tch slap a lot, and get slapped in turn ).

I just feel (and I could be wrong here), that my time in combat would last longer, especially in large, roving target, if I didn't have to worry about if I lose a side torso I'm done.

I wanted to thank everyone gave advice (not just to me), I have tried to use them myself, and I know it will take a while to adjust to this new mech, (um...btw, what does this chassis have that makes it better than a regular Victor?). And lastly if I go standard eng, would it be worth the weight gain to get a bigger engine?

Sorry for the long post, had a bit to say....

Thank you all for your help/advice, I have found that the community here is full of wonderful people who honestly want to help us out and not give us some of the stuff you see in match.

War Kitten

"Our Constitutional Amendments can only keep us free as long as a system remains in place to keep them protected"

[Redshift2k5]

War Kitten, on 23 November 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

I wanted to thank everyone gave advice (not just to me), I have tried to use them myself, and I know it will take a while to adjust to this new mech, (um...btw, what does this chassis have that makes it better than a regular Victor?).

It's a Champion mech, so it IS a regular Victor (same hardpoints, stats, quirks, etc) but it comes with some different equipment installed and a Champion mech bonus of +30% XP gained when pilotting the mech.

War Kitten, on 23 November 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

And lastly if I go standard eng, would it be worth the weight gain to get a bigger engine?

Victor's thrive on speed, a slow Victor isn't doing much that a larger Assault mech couldn't do better. Mechspecs offers very little when looking for Victors with standard engines, but those that do are still using over a 300 (one example is using a 320 standard). At least of you decide to go back to the XL later, you've already got a free one

[RazorbeastFXK3]

Not sure what your playstyle is as I haven't been paying that much attention but here's a build that I'd probably take for a spin
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...7606a1e1780bbd8

You could swap out the UAC5 for AC5 to lighten the load for more ammunition and swap out the SRM4 for another LRM5 or since you say you're not much of a brawler, take out the LRM5/SRM4 for an LRM10 so you're not launching two salvos of missiles with one shot through the 10 tube missile port and swap out the two AC5s for an LB10X and upgrade the Medium Lasers for Large Lasers.

If you don't like the size of the engine you could go for something lower grade to have more tonnage to work with too.

[Rogue Jedi]

War Kitten, on 23 November 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Greetings All,

1) I don't want to appear ungrateful for the mech (I am

2) Took it out for a spin a few times and got canned pretty quick...yah, a few adjustments to get used to and such, but thought I was getting canned a tad more quickly than I should, I could plow through w/my 'Phact 4x & her 2 AC2/2 UAC5s and do some dam before going down...and then I realized I had an XL and remembered people saying that if you lose a side torso you're done.

3) I recall some saying if you were in a light or lrm boat on the fringe you might be ok, but in heavy combat, not so much.
I just feel (and I could be wrong here), that my time in combat would last longer, especially in large, roving target, if I didn't have to worry about if I lose a side torso I'm done.

I wanted to thank everyone gave advice (not just to me), I have tried to use them myself, and I know it will take a while to adjust to this new mech, (um...btw, what does this chassis have that makes it better than a regular Victor?). And lastly if I go standard eng, would it be worth the weight gain to get a bigger engine?

Sorry for the long post, had a bit to say....

1) you are ungrateful but do not want to appear ungrateful?

2) XL is a simple tradeoff weight or speed for vulnerability, if you are frequently dying to side torso loss and are not able/willing to torso twist to spread damage then go for a standard engine, however I would advise at very minimum using a 300 engine, if you are using it as a brawler then yes a standard would possibly be better but brawlers need to be as fast and agile as possible so you can spread damage or you will go down fast even with a standard engine.

3) some mechs have a huge CT and small side torsos, these are the XL safe mechs (e.g. Dragon, Catapult, Jenner), also most lights are XL safe due to the speed, conversely Mechs with huge side torsos and small CT should almost never have an XL (Stalker, Atlas, Jaggermech), however in the case of the JM6 the weight gain is sufficient for most people to take the risk. most Mechs (including in my opinion the Victor) fall into a third category where an XL is still a risk but may be a risk worth taking

if you think you will do better with a standard then try it

[Koniving]

(Edit: 315 not 280)
I beg to differ on the slow Victor thing and speed being its lifeblood. I've had absolutely no trouble using slow Victors to kill; I tend to run 315 XL engines on mine. A whopping 61.3 kph before speed tweak, 70.2 kph after. Sports an LB-10x, AC/5, streaks and medium lasers. (I later downgraded to the 280 because even then I was having ammunition issues to keep up with my mech's longevity.)

The main thing is ensuring that all weapons can be aimed by the arms (streaks lock by the [o] crossair). Nothing can be easier.

If you're trying to use an 80 ton for speed, try a Charger or an Awesome 9M or a Pretty Baby. But speed on a Victor? Seems like a complete waste, if you're going high speed in a Victor then you're simply not using enough overpowered ballistic weapons. Or in the case of the champion build, have barely any ammo as well as the cooling efficiency and combat endurance of a 9 ER PPC Dire Wolf to boot (hate to see that thing fight on Terra Therma). Honestly I think the only thing saving that build is the need to "withdraw" whenever it jams.

Damn thing would have to go for a kill within about 6 seconds, any longer and it's about worthless. Good for a hit and run against a solo target. Not so good for fighting off 3 or 4 enemies by yourself and coming out as the only survivor.

Edited by Koniving, 23 November 2014 - 12:35 PM.

[ShadowbaneX]

uAC/5s are very much a face time weapon like the AC/2. The Victor accels with speed but only if you can torso twist to spread damage. If you constantly have to face the enemy to do damage your STs become vulnerable. When the Victors first came out my go to mech, my first mech was a CPLT-K2 with uAC/5s. It's a great mech for face time. I rigged up a 9S to run just like it, but trading 2 MLs for 2 Streaks (they were much more useful at the time), but I did horribly because of the XL engine in it.

TL;DR uAC/5s & XLs don't mix on the Victor. Drop the uACs for an AC/20 or swap the XL for a Standard. Also, JJs. A single JJ on an 80 ton mech makes me sad.

[Kodyn]

Can't believe I just saw one of the better players in the game advocate a small/STD engine in a Victor...

Mind=Blown. And I strongly disagree, for the first time ever with a Koniving post. For Victors, speed=torso twist=tanking ability=success. If you're going to pilot a slow Victor, just pilot something else that's meant to be slow, and be good at it. VTR does not have the hitboxes to be a real beefy STD brawler, plus with the current meta, the better AC/20 carriers out there, it really shouldn't be brawling anyway.

If you want a slow, tanky mech that will act like a slower VTR, just get a HGN....why pilot a VTR and completely waste it's only advantages over other assaults/heavies? Makes absolutely zero sense.

[Redshift2k5]

Koniving, on 23 November 2014 - 12:17 PM, said:

(Edit: 315 not 280)
I beg to differ on the slow Victor thing and speed being its lifeblood. I've had absolutely no trouble using slow Victors to kill; I tend to run 315 XL engines on mine. A whopping 61.3 kph before speed tweak, 70.2 kph after.

I'd still consider 70 fairly speedy for an Assault; contrast this with low 50's for an Atlas after Speed Tweak is applied. 70 in a Victor is still going to be able to move, maneuver, and twist, but you wouldn't run a Victor at 48/53 like an Atlas with it's stock engine.

[Kodyn]

You also wouldn't run an atlas with a stock engine...any good atlas pilot will max or at least go 350, same as a good VTR pilot would use the XL 340 or 350....not taking advantage of a mech's speed, if it has that speed over other mechs in it's class, and they have comparable hardpoints...is really just hurting my brain to comprehend.

I don't know why people intentionally gimp themselves and their team that way. If you aren't going to use a mech in any way close to it's potential, there's very likely another mech out there that's for you instead, that will play the way you're trying to play that original mech...

I'm not saying don't play how you want to play...but if you're trying to do well, help your team, and be smart? Yeah, there's certain better ways to run certain mechs...it's just the way it is.

[War Kitten]

I hear you Kodyn and

[War Kitten]

Sorry, hit wrong key....wish I could blame it on being drunk... Anywho, I hear you Kodyn, (thank you for your response) just trying to find a good mix. Been futzing w/smurfy and was thinking of trading the UAC5s/ML/SRM4/SRM2 with LBX10/2 ERLL/2 SRM6 (both LBX and SRMs seem to operate in a "shotgun blast" way with ERLL for backup) with the XL350......41.5 dam pts vs. 57.8 trying for more punch w/o sacrificing speed or armor (putting more on the front to protect eng).

War Kitten

[Kodyn]

To be clear I in no way advocate ignoring Kon on anything, I just happen to disagree here, and most comp pilots I personally know would agree with my assessment. I get my info from our own comp guys, the guys who beat us regularly, and my own experience in the field with mechs, so really, play around, and find what works for you, because that's all that really matters.

[Golrar]

Just got the champ last night and I had previously elited Vics, but never got the 9S. Ran this the first time out and got 3 kills lived on the Bog (hate that map).

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3288edd4cfffdaf

[JC Daxion]

I have a Victor question... Why is it i kept seeing Victors suck all weekend long?




I saw this constantly in missions over the weekend.. people saying how much the victor sucks, it has no quirks, the only thing it is good for is to strip for parts and sell. I was under the impression that the reason why the victor got no quirks, because it was such a great mech, as it is always tops in tournaments, and such a highly maneuverable assault with darn good fire power..


Are these people just miss-informed, Or has the mech been knocked off it's Ultimate power gamer mech pedestal, and in the eyes of a power gamer, if it is not the absolute best, it is considered the worst thing around? I honestly could swear they were talking like it was a pre-quirk Dragon.. (my beloved mech,, i really need to play it since the adjust!, maybe finally grab 2 more, so i can finally spend my 100k Banked XP on my 5N WHen ya learned the game on a 5N, the only place you can go is Up!


Anyways,, what is the DL on this mech.. are these haters crazy, or is there something to it seeing the mech got no perks..

Kodyn, on 23 November 2014 - 01:58 PM, said:

You also wouldn't run an atlas with a stock engine...any good atlas pilot will max or at least go 350, same as a good VTR pilot would use the XL 340 or 350....not taking advantage of a mech's speed, if it has that speed over other mechs in it's class, and they have comparable hardpoints...is really just hurting my brain to comprehend.

I think the point he was making is, you don't always have to play a mech one way, Or Max out an engine to be great in said mech.. Now i am not the best player, or competitive so maybe what i have to say doesn't mean anything. But the way i see it, often id rather save a few tons and run just a shade slower, to make a much more powerful build that suits my style.. Very rarely do i say, if only my mech ran 78KPH, instead of 74 i would of won that fight! that extra 4 KPH could of been an extra 2 tons of ammo, or a couple of heat sinks, or let ya squeeze in a PPC verse a LL.. ext..

Now i'm not saying take a 170 KPH mech and make it go 100.. But i think when you are talking about 2-6KPH in most cases people put to much into speed.. Maybe i am wrong, or maybe it is just my play level, i dunno.. But i am always outside the box anyway.. the view is better

Edited by JC Daxion, 24 November 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[Golrar]

The Victors, pre nerf, were fantastic jump snipers and had great mobility turning with the single JJ "exploit". Since they nerfed jump jets, you see less and less people using them because the difficulty level has gone up. When they put the movements nerfs in, they all but disappeared. Now that the red movement nerfs are gone, they have been coming back slowly in pugs. I wouldn't know about private matches as I drop exclusively in pugs.

I still like my Dragon Slayer, but I have become more of a light/med junkie.

I was a little disappointed that the champ didn't have the special paint job they showed on the front page, though.

[Commodore Perspicuous]

I feel like the engine/speed issue comes down to the weapon systems involved. Koniving is right that big/fast engines limit ammo space and whatnot, but for me, what always characterized the Victor was the ability to maneuver 80 tons worth of AC/20 and SRM insta-damage to a key point on the line. For that purpose, high engine rating is fine because you don't have as much ammo dependency as the "facetime" builds as someone put it somewhere above in the thread.

The 2 UAC/5 build makes no sense to me on a Victor. If you want a facetime jump jet assault to chew down your opponent with STD engines and AC/5s with plenty of ammo, invest in a Highlander. If you want to sneak up behind that Direwolf who is dug in and tear his back armor off, then shrug off the damage on the way back out, a fast Victor is the place to be.

EDIT: Take my advice for what it's worth. I pilot lights. Thus, faster things make more sense to me.

Edited by Commodore Perspicuous, 24 November 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[JC Daxion]

Interesting... It almost has me wanting to give both the highlander, and victors a shot! I remember back when i first started and heavy metal came out, that thing was a beast. I have sworn about that thing more than once. Maybe it is finally time to try these 80 ton beasts. But i think im gonna give commandos a try next. Now if only PGI gives us a nice black friday MC sale.... and then a huggin and Death's knell are in my near future!

[Satan n stuff]

Standard engines work just fine on a Victor, but you likely won't run dual ballistics with one unless you sacrifice a lot of speed, and speed is it's only advantage over the Highlander.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 24 November 2014 - 10:17 PM.