Too Many Lrms?
#281
Posted 28 November 2014 - 02:08 PM
Rarely, if ever, do I boat LRMs - even my Catapult is the K2 - and sometimes I do get pelted by wads of lurm from the red team. This usually happens because I've done something wrong: got caught without cover, or didn't see a drone over my head, etc. Sometimes there seems to be a lot of lurms flying, so you find some good cover and then give them a target. When you hear Betty's warning, use the cover. The only problem with this is that it eats up AMS ammo... which sucks. With that said, I do like the rewards for intercepted missiles idea.
#282
Posted 28 November 2014 - 02:19 PM
Mercules, on 28 November 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:
To use LRMs to their maximum effectiveness requires MORE than just the single pilot, it requires multiple people on the team.
The benefit to the challenge calcs the LRM user receives vs, what the rest of the team receives for their help is out of whack.
There's nothing personal, that's a fact of how this game works and how the challenges scored.
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Aiming is a skill. It is not the ONLY skill in MWO. There are a lot of other skills that come into play and for LRM boats one of the biggest is situational awareness. Much more so than for a sniper style that I see you often play in your videos and probably as much as a Brawler.
You see, an LRM mech can't go for direct LoS. In direct LoS they lose because the enemy can put damage onto them SO much faster than they can put it on the enemy. What LRM mechs are awesome for, though, is adding pressure on mechs already underfire. You see, you can only get so many mechs firing on one mech at a time. LRMs allow additional mechs to add damage to a mech already receiving damage.
What you say about the LRM 'mech is absolutely true, I totally agree with everything, which is WHY they shouldn't be given SOLE credit for damage they require assistance from the team to inflict.
I get it that "match-wise" they are participating and helping the team and typically end of MATCH scores reward EVERYONE on the team according to their performance (direct meaning: nothing should be done to the END OF MATCH scoring and rewards) CHALLENGE-WISE AND CONTEST-WISE, however, the LRM boats are receiving FULL score for damage they could not have done without the rest of the team's targeting assistance and the rest of the team is receiving NOTHING.
>>IF<< the challenge/contest scoring reflected the assistance provided the LRM boats/users, I wouldn't even be here.
LRMs, as they are right now, are pretty much working very well.
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That generally acknowledged fact alone lets us know there is something out of whack when it comes to scoring and LRMs.
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So again, nothing unique to the LRM boat, and nothing that balances the risk vs reward benefit they are currently receiving.
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What I am saying is the LRM boats/users are being overly awarded during contests and challenges and that we need to fix that to help curtail the regularly occurring explosion of LRM boats for every challenge contest.
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Don't discount the skill of your teammates (which is what the CURRENT calculation does, by the way).
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The current calc only considers kills, assists, and damage.
That's the problem. I'm glad you agree it should change. As you state, it favors heavier 'mechs leaving the lights and mediums struggling.
Now, if it were possible to factor in the spotting that these mechs provide, again, I wouldn't even be here, as it is, since it would probably be overly difficult to have something created and put in place quickly, the next best short term solution in the interim would be to normalize LRM damage scoring.
damonwolf, on 28 November 2014 - 01:37 PM, said:
The fact that an overly large amount of players seem to think they need to STOP before they pull their trigger is no fault of mine. I hit just as many on the run from a LONG distance as I do stationary and up close. Those vids are in there, just keep watching.
And admittedly I do prefer the stationary targets. I'm trying to complete the guillotine achievement, and it's much easier to nail that 4 square pixel cockpit hit box on stationary targets, so YOU GOT ME THERE!
Abivard, on 28 November 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:
However, regularly killing 4 or more in a match while playing one handed, chugging my beer, hell yeah.
But who wants to watch THAT many videos of a drunken ******* lobbing missiles?
Mercules, on 28 November 2014 - 02:00 PM, said:
1. The Firebrand with Dual Gauss and Dual ML's.
2. The Dirwolf with Dual Gauss and Dual LPL's.
Rather than having to "think" about which 'mech I've got loaded, I'm just in the habit of leading/following up each gauss shot with lasers, period.
It's a bad habit I admit, but due to the very cool nature of the builds, not one that really penalizes me...
Edited by Dimento Graven, 28 November 2014 - 02:16 PM.
#283
Posted 28 November 2014 - 02:27 PM
Dimento Graven, on 28 November 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:
Yeah, I do that. Try and keep in mind I'm usually playing while drinking and I have two 'mechs I usually play:
1. The Firebrand with Dual Gauss and Dual ML's.
2. The Dirwolf with Dual Gauss and Dual LPL's.
Rather than having to "think" about which 'mech I've got loaded, I'm just in the habit of leading/following up each gauss shot with lasers, period.
It's a bad habit I admit, but due to the very cool nature of the builds, not one that really penalizes me...
It is called muscle memory, it requires no thought, new borns are able to master this, it is not a sign of skill, it is a sign of repetition. but for some reason you seem to equate this ability to be an indicator of skilled game play in MWO, it is not.
It just makes you look more foolish and ignorant than you have already shown yourself to be.
#284
Posted 28 November 2014 - 02:34 PM
Abivard, on 28 November 2014 - 02:27 PM, said:
It just makes you look more foolish and ignorant than you have already shown yourself to be.
There's the twitch response that automatically fires the lasers, then there's the skill based aiming moving done PRIOR to firing them.
When I'm firing pin point weapons, I'm AIMING them, not just pointing in a general direction and clicking, nor clicking and wiggling my cursor around in a "spray and pray" method.
Other than consideration for the range itself, everything else is a skill.
There's plenty of OTHER skills that rely on muscle memory, but we don't "poo poo" their value.
#285
Posted 28 November 2014 - 02:36 PM
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I LoLed
#286
Posted 28 November 2014 - 03:36 PM
Dimento Graven, on 28 November 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:
But who wants to watch THAT many videos of a drunken ******* lobbing missiles?
Yeah, I do that. Try and keep in mind I'm usually playing while drinking and I have two 'mechs I usually play:
1. The Firebrand with Dual Gauss and Dual ML's.
2. The Dirwolf with Dual Gauss and Dual LPL's.
Rather than having to "think" about which 'mech I've got loaded, I'm just in the habit of leading/following up each gauss shot with lasers, period.
It's a bad habit I admit, but due to the very cool nature of the builds, not one that really penalizes me...
I call bullshit on the regularly getting 4 kills while playing one handed, unless you literally play against the worst players in mwo anytime you bring a lrmboat, and have a dedicated narcer working for you, this simply is not true, you need to move to get firing angles, find spots......
Given you might have a really loose definition of regularly and just be one of those docuhebag leechers that sits at the back firing at every target and occasionally getting good matches through pure luck... which i used to do as a newb while smoking a bong with one hand.
You say you mostly play dual guass mechs, which is easymode in the extreme thou.........
I say I run an assult lrm boat with a narc, I by far do the majority of the spotting for any team im on, im okay with them raining hell on my acquiring targets, dead enemy is dead enemy afterall.
None of this bullshit "lrm boats deserve less credit stuff."
Spotters do deserve more credit, the profitability of spotting is too low, and they should make challenges based on something other then assists and kills.
For instance challenges based around the "lance formation" "brawling" "flanking" etc cbill bonuses would make alot of sense.
#287
Posted 28 November 2014 - 07:58 PM
#288
Posted 28 November 2014 - 08:09 PM
It really depends from game to game sometimes the sky is on fire other times you almost see no lrm's at all, only thing what makes me sad is example Atlas, DireWolfs staying behind cover and spaming lurms,
Mayby they can make something like only catapults (wich are made for lrm boats) are only chassi that can lock target from behind cover, as they are squishy and easy to shoot 1 of hes mickey mouse ears off
But mechs that are more for brawling example Atlas, stalkers, timber/dire wolfs ect need line of fire
#289
Posted 28 November 2014 - 08:14 PM
let the game designers be the game designers
if you don't like this game go make your own
#290
Posted 28 November 2014 - 10:32 PM
Dimento Graven, on 28 November 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:
The enemy made it "easy" for you. I rarely experience the convenience of being able to stay on a perch and snipe. 59 times out of 60, people are gunning for me from very early on, though admittedly my style of play with my dual gauss builds is a bit more "brawly" than what your vid shows you doing.
Cool vid though!
Yeah my aim was real bad for that match i must admit.. but it is the perfect match to show how easy sniping can be since i played with very little skill in that match, I often find it easyier then lrming on average.. but hey walls of missiles look so awesome.
Ideal conditions can make anything easy thou i guess, that particular match they had no guass snipers, and they'd of had to push through my team to get to me, any shot they took at me did very little damage.
The whole ignoring me because I'm somewhere unexpected and using hard to track guass shots helps thou.
How hard or easy your fighting is depends on your enemies more then your weapons mostly, htou ill always think of sniping as easyiest because its good in every situation and at every range.
#291
Posted 29 November 2014 - 12:23 AM
This thread isn't just a wind up, is it?
#292
Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:50 AM
Becasue the only thing "wrong" with lrms is that PGI can`t buff brains and situational awareness, nor give the steering wheel underhive even more counters to it, without patching them completely out of the game.
LRMS are only as good as the target is bad. Period.
*edit* LOL, I just realized something: I actually also look at WHO I would be launching them at before I do so. For (true) example if the target kaffeeeangst or koreanese (when he still played), I generally won`t even try for a lock unless I know there`s no cover over where the dorito is. But if the name is l33tsn1p0r or similar, he`s getting every tube that`s ready to fire..... Simply because over the last 20 years I`ve noticed the ones with funky "leetspeak" names are usually the ones that invest more time in being cool than in being good = ideal LRM targets.
Edited by Zerberus, 29 November 2014 - 02:02 AM.
#293
Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:55 AM
#294
Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:23 AM
Abivard, on 28 November 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:
This is the new style voting:
First you must vote YES,LRM's are OMFG OP!!!!@#&%$#@!
Then You may select to vote for which of the Many,many,many,many,many,many things that are OP about the LRM.
p.s. This poll has a ZERO TOLERANCE policy towards NO answers.
I wasn't clear enough!
D) There is not enough LRMs.
Option to vote this option is missing. Actually voted no, I think there should be more flying things on battlefield than gauss ammo, streaks and wubs. Let LMR pour, they are keeping the battlefield more interesting.
#295
Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:44 AM
#296
Posted 29 November 2014 - 06:33 AM
#297
Posted 29 November 2014 - 07:20 AM
Dimento Graven, on 28 November 2014 - 02:19 PM, said:
You are being a little disingenuous here. Yes, any mech has to worry about being flanked and out numbered. But an LRM boat doesn't need to be outnumbered. A single brawler, even one that is less than half the weight of the LRM boat, is enough to totally stomp them. So LRM boats are more vulnerable to this, and need to keep up a better awareness of the battlefield.
#298
Posted 29 November 2014 - 07:40 AM
kazlaton, on 29 November 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:
Or maybe, instead of building a mech designed to rely entirely on the efforts of their team mates, they shouldn't BOAT LRM's. I can't think of many mechs aside from one Catapult variant that doesn't have the option of mixing LRM's with other weaponry.
The problem is, most ezmode boys want to pack on the maximum number of noobtubes and the maximum amount of ammo and press that R key and click that mouse button while their team (at least in their minds) has the responsibility for locking targets and providing area security for them.
#299
Posted 29 November 2014 - 08:02 AM
R Razor, on 29 November 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:
And this is where we lose respect for people like you and Dimento. The constant use of derogatory terms on people who have a different opinion or play style than you. Hopefully, one day you will realize this will not win people over to your opinion.
#300
Posted 29 November 2014 - 09:23 AM
You could nerf lrms all you like. All the time people are stupid enough to stay still, people will load them up en masse for some free assist monies.
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