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The Atlas Still Needs More Attention!


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#1 Sarlic

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Posted 25 November 2014 - 03:34 AM

  • Agree or not?
  • If not, why don't you agree?
  • What would you like to see improved?

I agree.

My thoughs:
I personally think the armor is still too weak. It gets off way too fast for a 100 ton. (With torso twisting being an exception.) The hardpoints...dont bother.
The internal structure update was a nice addition. But the overal quirks are pretty poor for the Atlas.

The only plus i see are some cooling for lasers here and there and the internal structure update.

Discuss!

Edited by Sarlic, 25 November 2014 - 03:35 AM.


#2 Sir Wulfrick

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:05 AM

As a veteran Atlas driver myself I would agree,

There are some competitive Atlas builds, such as a AC-20, 4 x SRM-6 with artimis build on the AS7-S, however these are really niche builds that are only truly effective on the more brawling-oriented maps. The central problem with the Atlas, in my opinion, has always been that for a 100 tonne mech it's actually hardpoint-deficient. Here's my reasoning for that:

1. If we accept the premise that mobility > armour, then it would be a wise decision to put a relatively large engine in our Atlas. I certainly like taking at the minimum something like a 340 standard just to give it the ability to (sort of) keep up with the team. We could argue that one of the jobs of the company commander would be to ensure that the lighter members of the team assist with positioning for assault mechs, since the Dire Wolf and Atlas in particular are too slow to hope to disengage from an unfavourable position, but that's another argument entirely. I think assuming a fairly large engine is a safe assumption.

2. Despite the very welcome addition of 11 structure points to the LT & RT, I remain of the opinion that using an XL engine in an Atlas is still an invitation to an early death.

3. We therefore have a very heavy engine. If we wish to have a competitive damage output, necessitating large and heavy weapons, for example the ER-LL and AC-20, both of which are staple weapons for the Atlas, then these combined with the heavy engine leave little remaining weight for ammunition and heat sinks.

4. It's perfectly possibly to take endo and/or FF armour, endo being the most common and probably better choice of the two, but due to the large number of slots taken up by our large weapons we still end up running in to the lack of space for ammunition and heat sinks problem.

5. To enable the Atlas to become competitive would therefore necessitate a smaller engine which under present conditions usually means an early death. I'd therefore propose that as a stop-gap measure all the Atlas variants (with the possible exception of the -BH and -S) get quirks that add armour to the torso sections. Doesn't need it elsewhere but the torso sections would be invaluable.

6. As an ideal solution, though this would be seriously outside the time-line, I'd propose making the in-game Atlas variants of the Atlas II (AS-7-DH) and variants described here: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Atlas_II

#3 theta123

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 09:24 AM

Or give some more energy hardpoints to all variants..

#4 NNQM

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 10:19 AM

Just give me a pre-beta trailer video Atlas, or the opportunity tu buy the AS7-D(F) at least. Any reasonable price would be welcome. ANY.

Edited by NNQM, 26 November 2014 - 10:22 AM.


#5 Sarlic

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 10:55 AM

Thanks guys for your input. It's really hard to engage with a Direwolf or a Timberwolf paced with that much firepower.

The armor or tonnage does not match up their firewpower no more. The hardpoints...like i said dont bother.
Currently it feels like more heavy dead weight.

Edited by Sarlic, 26 November 2014 - 10:58 AM.


#6 John1352

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 07:45 PM

It has a serious hardpoint deficiency (or unusable hardpoints). Variants have between 7-8 weapon hardpoints, with the S having 9, and many of those hardpoints are missiles with few tubes, multiple ballistics in one component, or 2 energy in centre torso. It is now competing against the dire wolf which can be configured for 15 hardpoints. If you drop in an atlas, chances are the enemies will be getting a direwolf to balance your tonnage, putting your team at a big disadvantage, especially considering that the direwolf can fit a LOT more heatsinks too.

#7 Thunder Child

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Posted 26 November 2014 - 08:00 PM

Jump Jets. They all need Jump Jets.

Okay, in all seriousness now, I'd like to see an Arm Armor buff, or damage reduction. Sure, you could mount weapons in those Gorilla Fists, but what they are really great for is sponging that DireWhales Alpha and then giving him the ol' one two punch.
Make it even Tankier, because that is what it excels at due to it's low weapon mounts and beefy arms.

I'd also like to see a slight movement nerf to the Direwhale. With Elites unlocked, that thing actually gets quite agile, and agile it should not be. Death to everything in front of it, sure. But Agile, NOPE.

#8 Sir Wulfrick

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 10:07 AM

View PostThunder Child, on 26 November 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

Jump Jets. They all need Jump Jets.

Okay, in all seriousness now, I'd like to see an Arm Armor buff, or damage reduction. Sure, you could mount weapons in those Gorilla Fists, but what they are really great for is sponging that DireWhales Alpha and then giving him the ol' one two punch.
Make it even Tankier, because that is what it excels at due to it's low weapon mounts and beefy arms.

I'd also like to see a slight movement nerf to the Direwhale. With Elites unlocked, that thing actually gets quite agile, and agile it should not be. Death to everything in front of it, sure. But Agile, NOPE.


Agree. At the risk of resorting to lore to support an argument, no mech in existence is supposed to have more armour than the Atlas. While this is true in-game, it doesn't feel as though it's significantly more survivable than any comparable assault mechs. Sure, the Direwolf carries a metric shed load of weapons but the ultimate strength of the Atlas is supposed to be its survivability on the battlefield.

A quirk adding either significant extra armour or a damage reduction would work wonders and make it the ultimate inner sphere, Kerensky-designed death machine that it's supposed to be.

#9 Summon3r

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Posted 27 November 2014 - 10:41 AM

View PostSir Wulfrick, on 27 November 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:


Agree. At the risk of resorting to lore to support an argument, no mech in existence is supposed to have more armour than the Atlas. While this is true in-game, it doesn't feel as though it's significantly more survivable than any comparable assault mechs. Sure, the Direwolf carries a metric shed load of weapons but the ultimate strength of the Atlas is supposed to be its survivability on the battlefield.

A quirk adding either significant extra armour or a damage reduction would work wonders and make it the ultimate inner sphere, Kerensky-designed death machine that it's supposed to be.


"Lore"
The Dire Wolf is one of the OmniMechs that became feared throughout the Inner Sphere during the initial Clan Invasion and rightly so. The Dire Wolf weighs in at an impressive one hundred tons and has a relatively slow cruising speed of 54 km/h provided by a 300 XL engine. Its speed and armor protection matches that of an Atlas, but it has superior potential firepower with fifty and a half tons of free pod space for weapons and equipment.

also dire wolf was 3010 and atlas 2755, so kerensky's atlas is slightly out of date.

#10 Sarlic

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 07:59 AM

View PostSummon3r, on 27 November 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:


"Lore"
The Dire Wolf is one of the OmniMechs that became feared throughout the Inner Sphere during the initial Clan Invasion and rightly so. The Dire Wolf weighs in at an impressive one hundred tons and has a relatively slow cruising speed of 54 km/h provided by a 300 XL engine. Its speed and armor protection matches that of an Atlas, but it has superior potential firepower with fifty and a half tons of free pod space for weapons and equipment.

also dire wolf was 3010 and atlas 2755, so kerensky's atlas is slightly out of date.


Then again. It should be a viable mech. Not a dead weight while you can take a heavy.

#11 Summon3r

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 04:47 PM

there is nothing dead weight about a d-dc or a as7-s

#12 ScorpionNinja

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 04:58 PM

IMHO, and I have 5 Mastered Atlases (minus the Hero BH)

All Atlases NEED a +25% TORSO TWIST RATE/SPEED BONUS!

This will help spread dmg easier/better, and also allow it to return fire a tad faster, which it NEEDs 1v1 a Direwolf!

#13 Op4blushift

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 07:38 PM

View PostSummon3r, on 28 November 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

there is nothing dead weight about a d-dc or a as7-s


maybe so, the problem is how weak the other variants are (especially the K, poor thing). Even then, the D-DC and S are only really effective as brawler builds, and they're completely outclassed in the ranged department by the Dire Wolf. I can't really talk from personal experience, since I only have the RS (I really don't know why), but it is sort of the ranged variant of the Atlas and its pretty lacking for a 100 ton mech.

#14 ImperialKnight

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Posted 28 November 2014 - 07:49 PM

TL:DR? Buy a Direwolf, not an Atlas.

It's sad, but that's just the reality of it. The Atlas would need a HUGE armor buff if it wants to fulfill its role of a tanker. I would like to see an armor increase of 50% at least across the whole chasis.

It sounds insane but it actually makes sense. The Atlas would have a lot less firepower but a lot more durability compared to the DWF.

#15 Dr Stompenheimer

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:19 AM

View Postknightsljx, on 28 November 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:


It's sad, but that's just the reality of it. The Atlas would need a HUGE armor buff if it wants to fulfill its role of a tanker. I would like to see an armor increase of 50% at least across the whole chasis.

It sounds insane but it actually makes sense. The Atlas would have a lot less firepower but a lot more durability compared to the DWF.


Exactly! The whole reason I bought an Atlas was because the first time I saw one it seemed like I could empty my entire ammo reserve into it, and it would keep coming. Now, they pop like a Locust. They are 100 tons, DWF is 100 tons. That's fine that the DWF should have more firepower, the Atlas should be more of a tank. The whole point of the Atlas was always to field a huge amount of armor, so let's get back to that.

I find it a bit strange that in the largest of all the IS mechs, if I run into a Clan heavy (Timberwolf), I feel like I have to retreat.

#16 Lily from animove

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 01:26 AM

DDC's and boars heads everywhere, other atlas are kind rare, they could need a tiny thing maybe.

#17 Nothing Whatsoever

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 02:20 AM

I dunno, maybe an 'I am groot' defensive buff can fit into existing lore!

#18 Sir Wulfrick

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 03:29 AM

View PostOp4blushift, on 28 November 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:


maybe so, the problem is how weak the other variants are (especially the K, poor thing). Even then, the D-DC and S are only really effective as brawler builds, and they're completely outclassed in the ranged department by the Dire Wolf. I can't really talk from personal experience, since I only have the RS (I really don't know why), but it is sort of the ranged variant of the Atlas and its pretty lacking for a 100 ton mech.


Agree completely. Variations on the theme of the 'one true Atlas,' i.e. combinations of ML, AC-20 and SRM-6 can be effective brawlers but even they run very hot, necessitating removal of armour to make them even close to being truly viable in terms of DPS. The best build I've managed to come up with for the -K is 2 x ER-LL, 1 x AC-20, 2 x AMS with loads of ammunition and enough heat sinks to make lengthy firing times viable. Even then it's severely deficient against most clan & some IS heavies, never mind other assault mechs.

Bizzarrely my current favourite build uses the AS7-D(f) and has 2 x ER-LL, 2 x LB-10X with 60 rounds of LB ammunition and a pile of heat sinks. Mid to late game when many enemy mechs are damaged the twin LB-10X are nicely capable of ripping through all sorts of things. And I suppose this brings us back to the original point - that above all else the Atlas is supposed to be incredibly survivable. Currently, in a neutral fight (no positional advantage to either) I don't think it's survivable against a Direwolf, and that needs to change.

#19 The Helepolis

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 04:35 AM

The ATLAS is inferior on paper in a 1v1 bout against a Dire Wolf, hell most Clan Heavies will tear the thing apart with relative ease. The amount of times I've dropped an ATLAS from near perfect hull integrity from just popping the eye. The true beauty of the ATLAS in Battletech was the fact it was extremely resilient and could melee. The main issue with the ATLAS now is that it can't. The Dire Wolf has no hands to fight in melee, whilst the ATLAS does. That's assuming the ATLAS can maneuver to the DWF in CQC before dying. (Sneaky 100-ton assaults!) Its hard points are lacking because this thing was known to get up close and personal and punch the hell out of lighter mechs. The AS7 dominated the battlefield during beta and the like since it was the only real assault that could brawl like it could. If it wants to remain competitive in MWO it'd either need the ability to melee or far easier option to implement more hardpoints, or an armor bonus. Lore wise the Dire Wolf is a superior ATLAS, DWF is 3010. AS7 is an outdated mech from 2755.

The Inner Sphere needs to remember that the mechs they're using are ancient, the engineers in the Inner Sphere have a limited knowledge on how these things even work. The factories that build them are generally automated, so the engineers have very little knowledge of how it works. The mechs weren't modular unlike Clan omnimechs so it was more common for them to just build an entire mech as replacement than repair an existing heavily damaged one. That's what centuries of perpetual war will do to a civilization. When you play Inner Sphere, you should play with the knowledge that you're the underdogs on the tech field. You're severely lacking in knowledge and power, but not in bravery, sacrifice, or tactical prowess. Just as the Clans have their code of honor, tactics, and genius. The Inner Sphere have a tenacity of being able to survive and bounce back no matter the costs.

I look forward to fighting alongside you in the coming years. Proud Wolf-in-exile, Warden till I die!

Edited by The Helepolis, 29 November 2014 - 04:44 AM.


#20 Sarlic

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Posted 29 November 2014 - 10:06 AM

View PostSummon3r, on 28 November 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

there is nothing dead weight about a d-dc or a as7-s


Sorry. Your obviously missing the point here.

I have been playing the Atlas since closed beta. I have mastered it over and over. The Atlas can be a good mech in the hands of a good pilot. I have currently more then 8 Atlai all with different builds.

With good getting more and more being a exception since we are now further into our timeline. Introducing clanners or the Invasion.

I see some new players in the Atlas struggling.

The DC-C is since it got introduced alot tweaked. Its a very good mech, but with the D-DC being on the lead the rest of the line-up feels fairly weak. I dont have too much troubles, but with more and more invasion mechs getting added and top tweaked heavies; why would anyone choose the Atlas over the Direwolf or even the Timberwolf?

The quirks are not very good either. The Atlas is for his hardpoints and armor vastly underpowered.
It's only good when a team cooperates. Hence, why i do much better in team matches then the solo que.

I am talking about the whole line up. Not just the D-DC. D-DC has great hardpoints and ECM. Which is a huge plus compared to the rest of the line up. A big reason to choose that chassis over the rest.

I am talking here about the line up. The whole picture.

The Atlas should be a hard target to take down. It moves like a building, it should stand like a building.
Now it feels like a shoddy paper mech which goes down in seconds.

Hard to explain..i hope people get it.

Edited by Sarlic, 29 November 2014 - 10:25 AM.






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