142 replies to this topic

[Galenit]

Joey Tankblaster, on 28 November 2014 - 05:48 AM, said:

I highly admire this idea. Give LRMs two operational modes. First on is direct fire, mech is mobile and uses its own lock, very fast missile, screen shake and good concentration on center and side torsos. Second mode is indirect fire. Lock on enemy mechs by UAV or NARC, mech is very slow or not mobile, ballistic flight, higher spread, less screen shake.

In a direct fire mode LRM-boats should be able to compete with lasers or ballistics (damage-wise).

You can make this without 2 modes, they just need to adjust some numbers and change ecm.

Every launcher spreads his missiles in a 10m circle.
For every laucher the spread increases by 5m and the lockontime by 10%.

ECM is no jesus box anymore, but it increases the lookontime and the spread for missiles by 50%, it also reduces enemy radarrange by 50%.

TAG reduces the spread by 25%.

ARTEMIS reduces the spread by 25% and lockontime by 50%.

NARC counters the ecm effect if sticked to a ecm mech and marks the target.
Maybe it reduces spread or lockontime to some degree too?

BAP counters the effect of ecm (with other effects that dont count to missiles).


This will lead to the following:
A single bigger launchers is better then a smaller launcher,
less launchers are better the more launchers.

Using artemis (that needs los) and tag will make the launchers more pinpoint and less lockontime.
Using indirect fire gives you normal spread, that can be countered to some degree by a spotter tag.

ECM is no jesusbox anymore, but it makes missles a lot less effective.


A single launcher with artemis and tag will have a spreadcircle of 5m and 50% less lockontime.
3 launchers fired indirect against ecm will have a spreadcircle of 30m and 80% more lockontime.

Now balance the numbers and it should work...


EDIT:
RadarDerp ...
... think about its own little mini ecm module.
25% lockontime and 25% spreadincrease against the user of the module would be matching.
Maybe it can have a 25% reducing for the enemy radarrange?
No jesusboxes anymore, but scrambling the lockonsystems is what it should do.

AMS:
Link the missilewarning to the ams system,
if you have none or its destroyed, you get no missile warning.

Edited by Galenit, 28 November 2014 - 07:33 AM.

[Joey Tankblaster]

@Mercules

Thx.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

Keep these kinda threads alive guys. I see the same handful ppl over and over again on these lrm threads defending the lrms with the same not helpful advices - since the lrm mechanic itself has major issues

Lrms are an obvious issue since theres almost a new thread every few days.

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 28 November 2014 - 07:38 AM.

[Mercules]

The Boz, on 28 November 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

...again, so why include SRMs if you can just slap on LRMs and call it a day?

kazlaton, on 28 November 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

Because SRMs do more damage, and don't have a 180m minimum range.

Someone already answered for me. Because it was obvious.

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 28 November 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Keep these kinda threads alive guys. I see the same handful ppl over and over again on these lrm threads defending the lrms with the same not helpful advices - since the lrm mechanic itself has major issues

Lrms are an obvious issue since theres almost a new thread every few days.

Well, I think the lack of feces flavored Oreos is a huge issue. In fact I think I am going to start a thread every day in Oreo's forums mentioning that lack. Eventually they will have to admit they need feces flavored Oreos, right?


See, the issue is that the problem doesn't lay with LRMs, but with the targets. However said targets refuse to admit they have an issue. Therefore they never bother to correct said issue. Therefore they continue to have a problem. Therefore we continue to have them complain about a problem that would go away when they decide to learn to play.


See, I can explain how to avoid LRMs over and over, but until certain people actually take it to heart and attempt to put it into practice in a real and practical way, it won't help them.

[Sjorpha]

Saobh, on 28 November 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

Guys stop it with the off-topic. We don't care about your egos (or do it by private message)

+1

Saobh, on 28 November 2014 - 03:54 AM, said:

As a part time LRMer I'd be ok with that (well perhaps keep it just for 1-2 seconds as the signal weakens). But in that case how would radar deprivation work as lots of people have put a lot of money in those so if they are the default effect I would think they would get pretty pissed having 6 Mc-bills thingies becomes worthless.

Big ******* deal.

They can just sell them if they don't like the change, that is exactly the kind of self entitled reasoning that should never be used to prevent good changes to a game. Similar to the "I paid money for this us cant nerf it !!!111! ZOMG refund!!" arguments the madbrats use. (I own 2 RD modules btw)

[SaltBeef]

Another day another piss and moan about lrm's forum post.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 28 November 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

Keep these kinda threads alive guys. I see the same handful ppl over and over again on these lrm threads defending the lrms with the same not helpful advices - since the lrm mechanic itself has major issues

Lrms are an obvious issue since theres almost a new thread every few days.

Ppl crying because theyre lazy and dont want to learn how to defeat the weapon =/= a major issue

[SleepTrgt]

Yes you can Hide behind objects to not get hits etc... but when you have many lrm boats and you cant even cross the open, gameplay gets so much boring, it drags the FUN out of the game.

Also its often a big deal when you go 1 v 1 brawling... all he has to do is lock you by using the R key and all of a sudden it can be 1 v 8 because half his team starts to lrm you, at that moment can you just stand still behind the cover? Nope you cant, so your nice brawl moment is gone to waste.

Remove the arc or remove the shared target by just using R (and need equipment to do so like Bap, computers, tag or modules w/e)

A weapon that requires low effort (standing in the back shooting at the targets acquired by other people pressing the R key) as shown in the challenges and tournaments is just not good game design.

Edited by SleepTrgt, 28 November 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

SleepTrgt, on 28 November 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

Yes you can Hide behind objects to not get hits etc... but when you have many lrm boats and you cant even cross the open, gameplay gets so much boring, it drags the FUN out of the game.

Also its often a big deal when you go 1 v 1 brawling... all he has to do is lock you by using the R key and all of a sudden it can be 1 v 8 because half his team starts to lrm you, at that moment can you just stand still behind the cover? Nope you cant, so your nice brawl moment is gone to waste.

Remove the arc or remove the shared target by just using R (and need equipment to do so like Bap, computers, tag or modules w/e)

A weapon that requires low effort (standing in the back shooting at the targets acquired by other people pressing the R key) as shown in the challenges and tournaments is just not good game design.

1+

[ThisMachineKillsFascists]

luxebo, on 27 November 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

Agreed, in pug matches LRMs are ridiculous. In group matches, LRMs are very weak, but LRMs just kick so many rear ends in pug matches since pugs just run from lrms. Making them more direct fire is a ton better in general, while lessening indirect fire. For those thinking OH MY GOD STOP NERFING LRMs THEY ARE SO WEAK provide a few good reasons that they shouldn't get this kind of buff/nerf balance (it's both a buff and a nerf in general). Plus LRMs need to be a support weapon not the crutch weapon in pugs.

[Cygone]

Problem with LRMs = Specific Problems.

Caustic + NARC + PuG + AMS = Still dead in 5seconds.

That's the problem with LRMs, when their is NOTHING you can do about them, its not fun to play against a spam tactic that you actually CAN NOT STOP OR DO ANYTHING ABOUT AND DIE IN 5 SECONDS!

Other maps etc. have this issue, I just pointed this one as an example.

[ollo]

I just realized: LRM threads start to bore me. There was a time where they needed to be discussed, but that time is over i guess. Which means in conclusion: there seem to be 50/50 pro/contra threads on the forum, and all arguments for/against LRMs are just repetitions of what has been said numerous times. I guess that means PGI did a decent job balancing them, so can we plz just stop starting new threads and call it a day?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Mercules, on 28 November 2014 - 07:55 AM, said:

Someone already answered for me. Because it was obvious. See, the issue is that the problem doesn't lay with LRMs, but with the targets. However said targets refuse to admit they have an issue. Therefore they never bother to correct said issue. Therefore they continue to have a problem. Therefore we continue to have them complain about a problem that would go away when they decide to learn to play. See, I can explain how to avoid LRMs over and over, but until certain people actually take it to heart and attempt to put it into practice in a real and practical way, it won't help them.

And if you try to point out that they are the issue they call you a troll while theyre trolling you

[Mystere]

RiggsIron, on 27 November 2014 - 11:40 PM, said:

So a weapon that is ONLY balanced for groups large enough to build around LRMs sounds fair to you?

You dont sound like you understand what balance is. Or that MMOs exist also outside of your groups.

Or are you just plainly saying anyone that is not in a group should just accept not having fun - or quit?
I dont see you paying for others gameplay - but you think you get to say solo queue shouldnt get to enjoy the game?

Logic!

Opinion is opinion. You and the OP think LRMs are not fine. I and others think they are.

With regard to balance, the only thing that concerns me is that both teams should have access to the same or similar weapons. I am not interested in 1-on-1 balance because that only leads to a "vanilla" or "flavorless" game. In fact if people's whining are brought to their logical conclusion, all weapons will act the same and just have different visuals and sounds effects, and Clan mechs will be nothing but reskinned IS mechs. So your "understanding" of "balance" is totally different from mine.

[PeekaBoo I C Ju]

gets AMS, works wonders for me

[zortesh]

ThisMachineKillsFascists, on 28 November 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

I think one of my videos was just used as an example of lrms being effective in group queue... or overpowered.. im not sure because it sortof lacks context.

Also if that was my lrmboating video being used as a example of lrmboating being op, i just won mwo.

I will point out i upload the videos where i win, usally by a large margin, there are plenty of games were its a struggle to get locks even with my narcing, and the video shows what is literally a perfect situation for lrms, with narcers and lrms on highground and the enemy pinned down in a valley with very little cover and no ecm.

They had alot of lrms themselves and no narcer, a directfire group would of charged us in that situation, and i've been on both sides of that and the directfire stomps.

I will also point out my lrmboat is anything but a typicial lrmboat.

To counter that, il lshow teamwork and one ecm guy stopping all the lrms.



Which is why directfire is better.

Edited by zortesh, 28 November 2014 - 04:30 PM.

[CrushLibs]

The legging feature eliminated and dive angles needs work

[MischiefSC]

I deal fine with lrms in pug matches, that doesn't mean indirect fire mechanic isn't crap.

Buff direct fire, Nerf indirect.

[topgun505]

Removing buddy data and requiring NARC or TAG to provide target data for indirect does not remove scouting from the game. It does require them to carry NARC or TAG equipment. You know. Scout equipment. Imagine that.

Getting back on track to the OP, the AoA is a tad high still (though nowhere near as bad as it used to be). But that isn't the primary problem. But since this thread is only about AoA I will withhold other opinions on the subject.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 28 November 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Yea.... lets remove scouting, Lights wont mind that



SO MUCH THIS

I really am not trolling and if you cant handle my opinion, maybe a public forum isnt for you

[kazlaton]

SleepTrgt, on 28 November 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

Yes you can Hide behind objects to not get hits etc... but when you have many lrm boats and you cant even cross the open, gameplay gets so much boring, it drags the FUN out of the game.

Maybe it takes the fun out for you, but a lot of us like a more tactical game. One where going rambo and charging over open ground might not be the best solution. One where you have to use situational awareness, and think about your moves a few steps ahead of where you are.