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Jester - Sucks?


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#1 BUDFORCE

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:02 AM

I am struggling with this Mech.

I love the looks of it, in fact I would say this is my best looking mech after a camo and colour change. I really want to love this mech, in all aspects but I just think it sucks, and here are my reasons:

1. Shape, size and agility.

Pretty obvious stuff, but it has quite a wide profile, meaning it's not so great at edging in and out of hard cover (edge of a building etc) and if you try to do this, the weapon layout means you will only effectively be able to use one of your arm weapons at a time unless you expose more than 50% of your mech.
The locked arms means that it is cumbersome at close ranges, it struggles to torso twist fast enough (particularly when using standard lasers) to track the faster light's. Large CT and small side arm profile make your CT easy to hit, meaning you almost have to completely turn away from your opponent(s) to avoid fire. A wide profile in general makes the mech easy to hit.
Speed is ok, however you need to nearly max your engine to make it as fast as you need it, especially when you factor in the agility benefits of a large engine.

2. Weapons and load out

Weapon choices are restrictive, no missile or ballistic hard points mean and all energy build.
PPCs. PPC's are one way to go, but have drawbacks, high heat, slow projectile speed vs. ballistic counterparts, heavy (although admittedly not as heavy as the ballistic counterparts).
Also unless using ER PPC's (even worse heat) you have a min range issue. Finally damage output isn't great, DPS and especially damage to heat ratio vs. lasers (either regular or pulse) is worse.
Large/ER Large lasers. OK, better on heat and weight then the PCC counterparts, however you have to directly face your opponent to get the damage in, which makes you vulnerable. Also lasers point both ways, so you make yourself a beacon of opportunity for a quick point a click ballistic sniper. And finally they are bad up close against fast moving targets when trying to track with torso twist.
Pulse lasers. Higher on heat then regular, heavier, poor range. I have yet to really try a full on pulse laser build, maybe where I am missing out, however, it will take you completely out of any ranged game, which means you will be hanging around at the start of most matches waiting for the engagement to close. This is a bad thing if you are pugging and your team isn't great.
Heat in general. Even with 18 or so DHS any combination of the above will run hot. They way the mech is you need to put a large engine in, and also plenty of DHS, so already most of your tonnage and slots are taken. Even if you had more tonnage for weapons, you would then have more heat, and need more heat sinks, so balancing it can be difficult, loses out in the respect to other mechs who can balance out heat with ballistics. You don't have enough hard points to go for several medium sizes lasers (if you could put 8 medium pulse lasers for example, mmmmmmm) but 6 doesn't cut it.

3. General strategy drawbacks

Sniping: Unless you are using PPC's you have to point straight at your target in put down the damage, which means if they have faster point damage (gauss, high calibre AC's) you will lose out. This makes it weak as a sniper, plus again, your size and shape is not ideal for this anyway. PPC's get outclassed by ballistic counterparts in almost every respect.
Brawling: Just forget it. Lights will run circles round you while you heat up and struggle to get your cumbersome weapons on them, mediums much the same and dish out more hurt at the same time. Heavies will just out damage you, same with most assaults.
Medium range fire support: Pretty much the only way to use this mech, stay behind your mates, pop out and back again acting as fire support, this relies a lot on your team though. Is cumbersome for peaking in and out in to cover.

To summarise:

The chassis was originally made to sit back, well behind cover, and out of any firing line, and barrage LRM's.
Ok it's not all bad, it looks amazing, double AMS is nice, JJ's are handy but, simply put this mech does nothing another mech cannot do better. It has no niche, and the possible builds are so restrictive it isn't viable to set it up to try and fulfil any specific role.

Edited by BUDFORCE, 01 December 2014 - 04:03 AM.


#2 AdmiralKirov

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:09 AM

It has a huge engine cap, fit an XL355 and outrun pretty much any enemy, the weapon loadout is pilot-dependent.

It has a huge engine cap, fit an XL355 and outrun pretty much any enemy, the weapon loadout is pilot-dependent.

#3 Tarogato

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:27 AM

Since you mentioned you haven't tried a pulse build yet, try this. Might be the same as your PPC build, might not.

JESTER

1. maximise your front CT armour - you're not going to get hit in the back very much (if you are, you should change your playstyle to minimise that problem)
2. Pulses run cooler than PPCS and do more damage. And the range is actually quite good. 500m alpha is more than a tickle.
3. take advantage of the fact that your guns are far out on the sides - expose half your mech, shoot with that half. When you start taking too many hits, change cover and shoot using the other side of your mech.
4. have a group for just the arms so you can ridge peak.
5. chainfire is your friend, ghost heat is not. That said, when I know I'm in a safe position, I'd probably lay on the alphas, cool to zero, then alphas again.
6. Disclaimer: I don't actually own a Jester, but I run an analogous build on my Cicada and in my Banshee. Large wubs can hurt. and if I don't need stunning speed or jumpjets for either of those mechs, I don't really see why the Jester would need them. Heatsinks are a better investment.

#4 ImperialKnight

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:28 AM

The problem with the Jester is that it was designed with agility in mind. Unfortunately, it came out at a time when 2 JJs = huge jump capability. They didn't adjust for this with the JJ nerf. So now the Jester has lost half of its strengths.

I haven't ran my Jester since the JJ nerf. But you could try this build for fun. The arms are higher than the cockpit, so you could actually hit things you can't see. Just jump and release the moment you have sights on the enemy, when you fire, the enemy will drop out of sight but the PPCs will still hit. With UAVs or even friendly targeted enemies, you can actually hide behind cover and only expose your arms to hit the enemy, if you know how to do it.

#5 Tarogato

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:31 AM

View Postknightsljx, on 01 December 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Wrong link, mate. :P

#6 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 04:40 AM

Its a good laserboat,though Quickdraw 5K and the coming Grasshopper are better hitboxwise(humanoid shape allows shielding with arms better).That massive nose needs lots of armor.

with 6 medium pulse lasers,21 DHS and XL350 it is really potent.

#7 Sky Hawk

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 05:00 AM

Jester is a Hit-and-Run / High Alpha Finisher Mech.. It can't take any damage.. specially not in Clan Times.. You have only one possibility in any 1 vs.1 fight, against any not-even-yellow Mech... If you can hit a Headshot EVERY TIME, when you fire your weapons.. other case you are surely dead..

So.. hide and wait, till your Team cored a Red and go, to steal the Kill, or move with your team (behind some meat-shield), and peak some damage/kills for yourself in a battle..

Ok.. It exists one other way.. but, it is for the real skilled or fools (me).. Sneak behind the enemy lines, using you high speed and mobility, hide and wait, till the battle begins, and then, go for the rears and/or legs.. you mostly fails, but some times it works..

PS. Of course you need to have a low ping, for the hit-registration too...

Edited by Sky Hawk, 01 December 2014 - 05:06 AM.


#8 levitas

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 05:15 AM

With quirks, 4llas or 3 llas and 3 mlas seems to work best for me. I tend to use an xl325.

Not much to say, as even without the hitboxes, this build is categorically worse than clan vomit builds.

It was my first hero mech and I have a soft spot for it, but the Jester doesn't deliver like the stormcrow (for instance) does.

#9 BUDFORCE

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 06:05 AM

View Postsolar levitas, on 01 December 2014 - 05:15 AM, said:

With quirks, 4llas or 3 llas and 3 mlas seems to work best for me. I tend to use an xl325.

Not much to say, as even without the hitboxes, this build is categorically worse than clan vomit builds.

It was my first hero mech and I have a soft spot for it, but the Jester doesn't deliver like the stormcrow (for instance) does.


This is exactly my point, kinda gets out classed in every way by most other mechs, shame it was also my first hero mech.

#10 MechWarrior679696

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 08:48 AM

Crazily enough, the Jester now seems to be far more effective as a defensive mech. I play it kinda like a "linebacker" to contrast my otherwise extremely offensive Arrow, and it seems to do well, particularly against Heavies and Mediums. 4xLL will give you all the concentrated firepower you need to take out valuables such as weapon arms and legs at medium range, while the 2xAMS lets you protect your lance while you swing around the back and shift between flanks. Even if the jump jets don't work nearly as well anymore, 90+ kph and jump capability still lets you get around. You just have to remember not to go on the offensive, but use the combination of hitscan and precision on the lasers to exploit the target opportunities you're given.

#11 Blackwolf 1 1

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 09:04 AM

Lots of good points have been brought up in this thread. Does the Jester have problems? Absolutely, I'll admit that. But I loved it from the first video they released for it, and bought mine within the week haha.

Two jump jets, two ams, and no ammo dependency make give this mech the ability to be effective later in a match than some other builds. Yes, the jump jet nerf hurt the Jester and I hope they do something to help it out, but they are still very useful for traversing terrain. Throw on dual ams, ams overload, and the ams range modules and laugh as you watch clouds of missles explode before they reach you.

The high engine cap means that it has the speed to dictate the range of an engagement. Want to hit the enemy early on in a match? Bolt across the smaller maps and find some unlucky assault to core out from the back in the first two minutes, then get back to your team.

This mech doesn't have the armor or hitboxes to get stuck in an extended brawl, but it makes a great skirmisher. I run 6 MPL on mine with 2 ams and 2 jumpjets and do well more often than not. The key is to stay patient. Wait a few minutes, let the battle start to settle, then hit from a flank to upset the other team. Get in, drop a few alphas and get out. Go for the legs if you can. Even just distracting a few of them can help immensely. About the only times I really get killed quick is from gauss snipers, or getting stuck in a longer fight than I expect to.

And there's one other thing. It's fun! The Jester isn't the best chassis, but man is it a blast to play :) Definitely one of my favorites! Hope you can figure something out that suites your playstyle with it.

Edited by Blackwolf 1 1, 01 December 2014 - 09:05 AM.


#12 Dez Telinov

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 09:35 AM

Yes, the Jester sucks! It will suck the fun out of the enemy. It makes a great lazor boat. Load up with JJ, XL engine and the lazors of your choice. Do not forget the AMS. Also has the best paint job.

#13 RedlineHunter

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Posted 01 December 2014 - 01:56 PM

Like all the Catapults this is a support mech. It is not meant to stand in front of that Atlas. I really like the cats and can carry my weight well in them but with all the changes to this game, they do need a little love from the devs. I would have to say the Jester and K2 are some of my most played mechs.

#14 BUDFORCE

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Posted 02 December 2014 - 11:39 PM

Yeah I tried a pulse Jester now also, probably even worse then PPC's or lasers.

The only thing that remains of course, is to try a really slow 3 or 4 ER PPC build for a one shot overheat madness. It will be terrible, but at least you wont be dissapointed when you die only having done 120dmg.

Common, you know you want to try it :)

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1161b96b8718316

#15 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 05:04 AM

Posted Image

yes it is bad,you can ONLY murder 3/4 of the enemy team with it.

the XBOX-huge nose is not that bad,hit and run.

strike the first strike,flank,outflank,survive,not that hard,mostly you will fail,but when it succeeds,oh boy,massive lulz will be had.

#16 BUDFORCE

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 12:23 PM

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

#17 Revis Volek

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:08 PM

Its a hero mech...they are all Lackluster. If they were too strong you would have rivers of tears from the P2W agenda pushers.

#18 SunshineActual

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:10 PM

Max engine...
6 mp laz
2 aims 2tons of ammo to support grp or team

Tons of dh.

All that is left is playing to its strengths. Harrassment recon picking smart fights and you can easily pull people away from the fight with this mech. Your damage is pin point too... easily taking off parts. Its not meant to be in your face alphaing. But its still a blast!

Love my Jester.

#19 xeromynd

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 01:29 PM

View PostSunshineActual, on 03 December 2014 - 01:10 PM, said:

Max engine...
6 mp laz
2 aims 2tons of ammo to support grp or team

Tons of dh.

All that is left is playing to its strengths. Harrassment recon picking smart fights and you can easily pull people away from the fight with this mech. Your damage is pin point too... easily taking off parts. Its not meant to be in your face alphaing. But its still a blast!

Love my Jester.


To the OP:

1. Seconding the post above. This build is FUN. Short ranged, but now with the quirks helping a bit more, it's a fun pop & shoot mech with great agility. Slap on the AMS Range and Overload modules and you've got yourself a very nice LRM-killer. Personally I'd go for the weapon modules instead though
  • 6x Medium Pulse Lasers
  • 1 JJ (A little extra mobility)
  • 2x AMS
  • 2.5T AMS Ammo
  • iirc an XL350
2. I got bored of the above build though, so I started running the following, which I've had great success with.
  • 2x Large Pulse Lasers (Torsos)
  • 2x Medium Lasers (Torso)
  • 2x Medium Lasers (Arms)
  • At least 1 JJ
  • Not sure what engine, sorry, but it's plenty fast for a heavy and The Large Pulse is more damage and significantly less heat than the run-of-the-mill PPC+ML setup most players use. Placed the heavy hitting LPLs in the torsos instead of the arms so you've a lesser change of them getting blown off. This means you can skimp on some Arm Armor. You can alpha about 4 times in this build before overheating.

Edited by xeromynd, 03 December 2014 - 01:31 PM.


#20 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 03 December 2014 - 04:19 PM

AMS just exposes your position when flanking,never ever use it on a fast mech





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