140 replies to this topic

[Nightshade24]

AxZul Torbin, on 09 December 2014 - 07:00 PM, said:

Nightshade your not understanding. You cant. Its the only option.default, polygon or the faction camo. the other camos options that where purchasable with MC are now gone.

Like all other packages earlier they will introduce the other skins eventually.

It was same for the phoenix, for the wave 1, and most likely the same for the resistance and wave 2.

They often come with the C-bill release I think (or was it MC release)

Edited by Nightshade24, 09 December 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[AxZul Torbin]

Dont get me wrong I love the new faction specific camos. Just was disapointed when I was forced to lock in on my Mad Dog. My Timberwolf looks really sharp using Jade Falcon colors on a camo of my choice. Just think it should have been an additional camo choice not a lock in. There probably could have been a better choice when it came to forcing it for CW. I have no solution and understand why thay did it and suppoort them but for a public match I would like to be able to paint my mech how I like using the new faction colors.

[Lagster]

Yeah, I was initially contemplating buying the pack just for the camo because I thought ghost bear camo could be tweaked to look like lava...

[Sir Roland MXIII]

Denis, I agree about tact and decorum but this was a bad, ugly surprise and I hope you are understanding as well that a negative reaction will be felt passionately, and therefore there should be some leeway to speak passionately because of it.

[AWOL 01]

First, I would like to say thank you to PGI for releasing the patch early, it's great to see you're all working hard at improving this great game and making the players' experience better. There were a few problems (the Gargoyle Polygon Camo not showing up, some of the camo names were wrong, having to pay for Mad Dog camos, etc.), but it's better to get these worked out before CW is released. In the future I would be fine with waiting longer for patches and having them be completed though, there's no need to rush.

I can see where everyone is a little frustrated about the camos. I just checked in and immediately patched so I could play with my brand new camos. Customizing my mechs is one of my favorite things to do, so I was very disappointed to see there was very little I could do to change it. I can see your reasoning, but I felt very misled by what I had seen before the content was released. First, this hasn't been done with camos before, so it was completely unexpected. Second, when choosing, there were 3 colors included with each pattern, so naturally I assumed I could use these for each of the 3 color options on each pattern. Again, I realize this was done for the sake of uniformity for the factions. However, some players aren't going to be as involved in CW as others or don't care as much about using faction appropriate colors. Some just play for enjoyment, and part of that is being able to customize your mech. If a player wants to run "Battletech Universe appropriate colors" then they can run the patterns as they are. But by locking them, you're taking away the customization factor for others. I understand you are all busy with CW at the moment, but please give us the ability to change the colors sometime in the near future. You have all been doing an amazing job with this game, and I know you'll do what's best for the community.

Edited by AWOL 01, 11 December 2014 - 09:25 AM.

[Cimarb]

Dennis de Koning, on 09 December 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Alaric,
Having a tantrum will get you no where.
Claiming my response was bullshit is a little out of line don'tcha think?
I explained our reasoning behind the decision clearly and honestly; if you don't agree, that's ok, you have a right to your opinion.
But you have to admit, we've tried our best to expeditiously address concerns and consider requests you all may have.

I am completely open to modifying the option to customize the colours if the majority of users desire it.
Stating your point clearly, with tact, decorum and well thought-out reasoning will receive a better response than that of poor etiquette.

Considering yours (and others) concerns though, our schedule is quite full so any meaningful changes, if they are to be made, would have to wait until early next year.

I understand what you are saying, and agree about the tantrum comment, but you do realize you skipped over all of the "tact, decorum and well thought-out reasoning" posts and responded to the tantrum, right?...

I also understand that you feel like you are being attacked for your position on the camo and are heavily invested in it as an artist. I, and everyone I have talked to, are extremely happy with the CGB camo. All we want is to be able to use the specific colors that represent our CGB unit specifically. Changing the colors does not change that it is the CGB camo, or how beautiful it looks, but it DOES allow us to enjoy using it as Ghost Bears.

[Frost Lord]

Alaric Wolf Kerensky, on 09 December 2014 - 05:26 PM, said:

Oh man, now I am annoyed. I am sorry, but that is some incredible bullshit for a response.

Do the IS Houses have distinct colors used to identify them?
- Yes, of course (Where is Marik without Purple, for example.)

Now, are there colors to identify with an entire Clan?
- Not really.
Every Clan Galaxy has a different color profile and pattern.

I am going to list sources here, and unless if you can counter with better sources, the argument you just provided is 100% irrelevant. Also, what is stopping a Ghost Bear from sporting the Falcon pattern as it is anyway?

To use Clan Wolf as an example:
The color most identifiable with Wolf is gray, the default color to use when not using a designated scheme. Brown, tan, and silver are colors also usually attributed to them.

Alpha Galaxy: Forest green, Tan/gold trimming, http://camospecs.com/Unit.asp?ID=575
Beta: Tan over gray http://camospecs.com/Unit.asp?ID=576
Gamma: Green over brown
Delta: Brown over gray, with black accents
Theta: Various browns with white arms
Iota: Gray with red accents
Kappa: Light gray, accents tan and dark gray
Tau: Khaki, accents gray and red
Omega: Flat Gray
Golden Keshik: Gray, blue-gray trim and gold accents
In the case of my unit, which is a fictional piece of Clan Wolf, our colors are deep gray, black, with red and gold highlights.

Please tell me, how you identified green as a representative color for Wolf? Green paint is used in two of the Wolf Galaxies. How does that represent the entire Clan? In the case of Jade Falcon, obviously green fits exceptionally well. Not in Wolf. This same trend can be said for IS Houses. How many Marik units have combat paint in their iconic purple? Almost exclusively their militia units, and not many others: http://camospecs.com/Faction.asp?ID=13
As most of the players here are identifying with particular units (many of which have schemes far from the iconic colors of said faction), and not the faction itself, this is going to be problematic. The colors you selected are NOT going to help players identify with their faction. In fact, it will cause alienation.

Can the majority of Clan Wolf units get attached to the pattern you created? Some may choose to use it, but likely ONLY if they can change the colors to represent their particular unit.

Lastly, but most importantly. NOWHERE on the order page did it mention that the patterns would be locked to the set colors. Considering in previous packs the bonus camo content has been customizable, how were your customers supposed to know that they would not be able to take these patterns and make them their own? The answer: they were not. This is essentially false advertising. As a customer who has sunk $580 into this game because of how much I love Mechwarrior, I feel cheated for the $120 I put into this pack. I literally only bought the Man 'o war Package because I wanted the bonus patterns and colors to use on the Mad Dog and Hellbringer. But now, in order to bring them into the color scheme of my unit, I cannot use the patterns intended to unify units for CW, or else sacrifice the color identities of the Black Wolves.

Edit: I have now heard that the Prime variants were also supposed to be able to accept the clan patterns? Not sure if that is correct or not.
Also, the Wolf Green is EXACTLY the same as the Default (green) color. That is... a little underwhelming... at best.

the problem i see is it looks like it will backfire since i don't like the Paton for wolf so i will probably just use jade falcon or ghost bear with the colors rather then the wolf colors I would have made them, when I fight for wolf, also its not going to help unless they now lock everyone to faction colors.

Edited by Frost Lord, 09 December 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[PraetorGix]

What it doesn't say is whether the color bug has been corrected or not. I am frankly afraid of trying to put faction colors on my mech again after this.

[Alaric Wolf Kerensky]

Dennis de Koning, on 09 December 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Alaric,
Having a tantrum will get you no where.
Claiming my response was bullshit is a little out of line don'tcha think?
I explained our reasoning behind the decision clearly and honestly; if you don't agree, that's ok, you have a right to your opinion.
But you have to admit, we've tried our best to expeditiously address concerns and consider requests you all may have.

I am completely open to modifying the option to customize the colours if the majority of users desire it.
Stating your point clearly, with tact, decorum and well thought-out reasoning will receive a better response than that of poor etiquette.

Considering yours (and others) concerns though, our schedule is quite full so any meaningful changes, if they are to be made, would have to wait until early next year.

To be fair, that was not a tantrum. It was an annoyed response to what was portrayed as a set-in-stone policy. Apologies if you took offense at the use of "bullshit," but personally I took the first response as a kick in the face.

I am 100% satisfied as long as it is open to discussion. I made my points, as have several others in favor of having the ability to change the patterns. As for the members of my unit, so far we love the patterns, we just really want them to reflect our unit.

Of course it will take time to open up customization of these patterns, I think we all understand that will take time. As long as it is acknowledged that players really want these cool patterns to reflect their unit identities, that would be awesome!

[Frost Lord]

Nightshade24, on 09 December 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

I find no problem having a faction colour for faction skins. It is a free skin. Don't like it then go buy yourself a different one with MC. You will always have your Faction insignias/ logo/ icons and other decals that are coming soon to make your mech feel more at home with your specific galaxy/ faction/ corps / what have you.

except it wast free it was an incentive to spend more money on the package rather then just getting one or two
the phoenix flame Patton was a free camo because we got it as a stretch reward

Edited by Frost Lord, 09 December 2014 - 08:59 PM.

[Uklistan]

Dennis de Koning, on 09 December 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

Alaric, Having a tantrum will get you no where. Claiming my response was bullshit is a little out of line don'tcha think? I explained our reasoning behind the decision clearly and honestly; if you don't agree, that's ok, you have a right to your opinion. But you have to admit, we've tried our best to expeditiously address concerns and consider requests you all may have. I am completely open to modifying the option to customize the colours if the majority of users desire it. Stating your point clearly, with tact, decorum and well thought-out reasoning will receive a better response than that of poor etiquette. Considering yours (and others) concerns though, our schedule is quite full so any meaningful changes, if they are to be made, would have to wait until early next year.

Dennis/PGI;

I ask that you do more then just consider it. I will be going IS for CW but I will still be playing my CLAN mechs in the group.solo queue. I for one, would like to be able to change the camo patterns to my units colors on those mechs - as not to confuse solo pilots of my affiliation. Yes, I am aware my faction tag does that, but most hardly look at that - we look at unit tag & mech camo/paint. I agree that temporarily they should be sort of locked, or at least the opening of CW-beta, but they should NOT be perm locked.

Also, thank you for the great work you all have been doing lately. The early release of the King Crab and Gargoyle is cool {even if it messed up my birthday plans}.

[MuFasa]

I want to see the ability to open and modify the colors across the board on the paint schemes, but I am stoked that there is an ongoing and open discussion with opposite points of view of customers and PGI staff.

I have waited EONS for that. Kudos.


And I think there would be less butt hurt had this been clear well before people were forced to make their choices.

[Verkhne]

Dennis de Koning, on 09 December 2014 - 04:35 PM, said:

Regarding the non-customizable colours for the Faction Camo Specs.
These colours are locked because they are specific to the corresponding house.
Every Faction has very specific colours that represent it. To make them changeable would allow say Ghost Bear, for example, to sport Jade Falcon colours.
Not only would this be confusing, but it would be a misrepresentation of ones Faction and allegiance.
We did include one colour channel (albeit small) that can be modified for the purpose of indicating ones unit.

The colours are, by design, meant to be static and represent your Faction as much as the pattern does.
Once owned, they can also be used to tint other camo specs, unifying them with your Faction as well.

I hope this clears up our reasoning behind this decision.

The time and date of this information speaks volumes to this issue. People cannot be expected to even have an inkling of this restriction.

[Duncan1dah0]

Nightshade24, on 09 December 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

I find no problem having a faction colour for faction skins. It is a free skin. Don't like it then go buy yourself a different one with MC. You will always have your Faction insignias/ logo/ icons and other decals that are coming soon to make your mech feel more at home with your specific galaxy/ faction/ corps / what have you.

I agree that locking the skin to the faction color is proper. As long as I can use the colors on other mechs/standard skins I am cool with it. Makes sense to me.

[I_AM_ZUUL]

Peoples response to everything every time

Edited by I_AM_ZUUL, 10 December 2014 - 01:03 PM.

[Threat Doc]

Dennis de Koning, on 09 December 2014 - 06:45 PM, said:

I am completely open to modifying the option to customize the colours if the majority of users desire it.

Considering yours (and others) concerns though, our schedule is quite full so any meaningful changes, if they are to be made, would have to wait until early next year.

What about making the patterns as channels, instead, and then having in the paint box schemes like you have for the hot rod colors and the blues and the colors we own, where you put in colors more befitting the Clan, and then allow players to purchase the colors with MCs. I think it might have been a mistake trying to nail colors in-place for the Clan 'Mechs, whether the pattern is good or not. However, not knowing how you delineate colors in the palette, I think it might be a better or easier fix to have Clan-specific colors that can be applied to the pattern you've chosen for each Clan.

Moreover, I hope you fix this soon, before House and Merc patterns are made available. Also, will you make it possible for individual elements to submit their own patterns?

[Alexi Davion]

Maybe Im just reading this wrong but...
When exactly do we get our IS Faction Warhorns and Camo patterns? I thought it was gonna be with this Patch. and I see the Nice Camo Pattern on the King Crab. (Davion) ..Was this supposed to be available now to the Guys that Got the Resistance package? Oh Im Loving the King Crab its as I had hoped it would be. Sad that You Nerfed my Thunderbolt tho Cries.

[Nightshade24]

Frost Lord, on 09 December 2014 - 08:57 PM, said:

except it wast free it was an incentive to spend more money on the package rather then just getting one or two
the phoenix flame Patton was a free camo because we got it as a stretch reward

It is free when you compare the content with other packages.

[HARDKOR]

So I bought the other two crabs and I can't change the camo. Is that a bug?

[Hayato1983]

MMM gotta try this,its a bit confusing when being on paper XD.