44 replies to this topic

[Tallnob]

solid reasoning. plus you could get bored plodding along at 54km/h

[Doomliger]

Ravenshield, on 27 June 2012 - 07:14 AM, said:

Really, the Elite founder's pack is not fair??? Let's see you get a free mech, you get access to the open beta, you get $80 worth of in-game money... I would say anything more than $60 in-game money is a bonus. Quit with the feeling of entitlement! Stop with, this and that is not fair! I'm sick of people thinking they should be entitled to anything. You knew what you were getting into when you put down your $60. Quit your whining!

What house are you aligning yourself with? I just want to know which house to avoid!

Purchasing my elite founder's pack tomorrow on payday! Taking the Catapult for it's utility. Can be configured for both long range bombardment as well as medium range damage dealer. Can't wait for this game to come out! Can't wait to destroy people like you. That will make me smile

I was comparing fairness between different ELITE founder packs, because I noticed that the free mech you get would actually cost differently c-bills wise. If my assumptions was incorrect, I'd glady take some constructive replies.

And just to add in, I was comparing a Catapult built for close range (assuming you can replace LRMs with SRMs), not a utility catapult.

Please tell me which house you will be aligned in so I can fully avoid it. I simply do not want to deal with one such as yourself. Who posts insulting invalid replies before reading and understanding the original post. I would be most disappointed to play with someone of your intelligence level.

[Pax Noctis]

Hunchbacks are for close-quarters fighting. If it can get close to the Catapult it can and will destroy or drive it off. Catapults are fire support, for standing way the hell away and dropping 30 missiles onto the heads of things your lancemates are spotting for you. You could kill a Hunchback without him ever seeing you, as long as you're far enough away and have a spotter.

Basically, either one could crush the other one, depending on the circumstances. If you like being a city brawler, the Hunchback is a good choice. If you like "sniping", at least in how you position yourself, go for the 'pult.

[Bluten]

Actually a Catapult likely wouldn't fare well all vs a Hunchback 1vs1. You say the speeds are the same but a Medium is in fact much faster than a Heavy. Also, an AC20 is FAR better for fighting at close range than LRMs. So what is a Catapult going to do vs a Hunchback that runs up to his face and starts slamming him with AC20 slugs? Well he can't run away, he's slower; and he can't win a 1vs1, because LRMs suck face to face. Your Hunchback that you selected would actually stomp a Catapult's face. The Catapult is a long range fire support Mech, not a close range face to face fighter like the Hunchback. It's the Atlases you should be worried about, as they have the superior armor to tank you, and superior firepower to beat you with.(Which includes an AC20 of their own)

So you want to switch out LRMs for SRMs? You'd fare better as the Catapult then... but guess what... an AC20 is still going to put out more damage.

Edited by Bluten, 27 June 2012 - 04:04 PM.

[Basilisk51]

like many have said different hardpoints and less of a wide center torso and cockpit. Also the hunchback has more armor if im not mistaken as it is a close range brawler and the catapult is originally designed for missile support. srm's are nice but i think a hunch would wreck a cat if it got close enough without taking damage.

[Jakob Knight]

Mostly, it is a question of combat preferences. Hunchback has a large Ballistic hardpoint while Catapult has two Missile hardpoints. That means the Catapult is limited to LRMs and SRMs (that we know of). The Hunchback could mount an AC, Guass Rifle, LBX Cannon, or Anti-missile System. Hunchback is lighter, and will probably turn slightly faster. This means the Hunchback will have slightly more options in weapon type loadout, and an advantage in close fighting. Note also (depending on how it is implemented in the game), ballistic weapons have the highest concentrated damage in the game, while missiles tend to do damage across the entire target. Also, the long ranged ballistic weapons can be used in-close, whereas the long ranged missiles are completely useless in-close.

So why pick the Hunchback? Because you want a Gun instead of a Missile Launcher, because you want to have slightly better handling, and because you like the design. Might also be because you like the upgrade options of the HBK over those for a CPLT as well.

[BlackAbbot]

There seem to be quite a few of these threads popping up and they all basically boil down to the same thing:
"A bloo bloo bloo, somebody might be getting more than me."
It's pretty simple really. If you think one option is 'the best' and that matters to you, buy it. If you don't think any of the packages are good value, don't buy them. Nobody is forcing you to buy one package over another or select one specific mech or even spend any of your money at all.

[Flinch]

So in a nutshell: Each mech has its own role to play in a battle. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. One will probably be more fun to play than the other based on your own personal playing style.

That about right?

[Belorion]

Congrats... you have now rounded out the complaining about how X level of the founders package is unfair. Since they are now all deemed unfair (in some thread or another) it must mean that in fact, all levels are fair. Buy the one you like, then you don't have to QQ about the others.

[Inmora]

Also dont forget, Hunchback has a Nissan 200 engine where the Cat has Magna 260, so even with a high rated engine more weight still could keep up.

[ScrapIron Prime]

Weight and weapon load out are only part of the puzzle. There's also the mech's role and your play preferences to take into account. The

Catapult is a missile barrage mech, you can mod it to be either long or short range, and you have good secondary laser armament to back it up. You use a catapult if you want to do most of your fighting from the horizon and then charge in.

Hunchback is a ballistic killer. While you could mod it to be a laser boat with machine guns as secondaries, it seems strongest with a large AC or Gauss as primary and lasers as backups. You use a hunchback if you want to be a lynchpin and frontal combatant OR a sniper.

I may very well experiment with my Hunchback to make it a Gauss sniper. Go scout skill tree for the 7x zoom and HUD details, plus add an ECM unit to the mech. After applying ample ammo to the Gauss, I figure the Hunchback would have anywhere from 2 to 5 medium lasers as secondary weapons depending on availability of EndoSteel and Double Heat sinks.

For a catapult, an effective blitzing technique would be to replace the heavy LRM launchers with lighter SRM launchers (even streak launchers, which would in theory be very ammo efficient) and replace the 4 medium lasers with 2 large lasers instead. It takes the mech from a long range fighter to a blitz mech for direct LOS firefights. Effectiveness would depend on availability of double heat sinks. Endosteel optional, but would allow for more armor to be carried.

Edited by ScrapIron Prime, 27 June 2012 - 05:49 PM.

[TheBlackKnight]

00dlez, on 27 June 2012 - 07:08 AM, said:

Well, they are 2 different wieght classes, so it will likely (nothing has been confirmed on this yet as far as I know) factor into the matchmaker.

So if the matchmaker wants to make a 2 light, 5 medium, 3 Heavy, and 2 Assault match there might be advantages to taking a hunchback over a Catapult.

Another factor to keep in mind is upkeep/repair costs. Again, I've not seen anything official, but One might assume that Lights are cheaper than mediums are cheaper than heavies are cheaper than assaults to repair after a fight.

The XP aspect will also be important. If the modules/XP boosts for thecatapult tend to focus on better speed and optics to help its sniping role, and the hunchback gets boosts to short range scanners, torso and leg turning radius, etc, then one will gain advantage over the other in certain aspects of combat.

Also, just to nit-pick the specific example, the SRM ammo needed to equal the short range power of an AC20 is going to take up more critical slots, have a greater chance of ammo explosion, etc etc.

Referencing back to design specs, the AC20 is a single hit for 20 damage, all missile classes have a spread, ie they have practically no penetration compared to the AC20. The Hunch back has always been considered a great urban mech, where the missile mechs are much better in the open...

[ScientificMethod]

No offense but loading up even just four srm 4's would outdamage the ac-20 in the hands of a skilled pilot.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM_4
2 damage a missile


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AC-20
20 damage

Both have equivalent range. I really think it comes down to who can aim better. Both have ammo explosions to worry about.

Edited by ScientificMethod, 27 June 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

ScientificMethod, on 27 June 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

No offense but loading up even just four srm 4's would outdamage the ac-20 in the hands of a skilled pilot.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM_4
2 damage a missile


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AC-20
20 damage

You're overlooking one thing. All those missiles will be hitting over an area, they won't all be applied to the same armor location. That AC-20 does all it's damage to one spot.

Now the COMBINATION of these systems is even more deadly. A couple shots with an AC-20 to make a hole in someone's armor and then spam missiles over him to seek multiple crits down the hole...

[ScientificMethod]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 June 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

You're overlooking one thing. All those missiles will be hitting over an area, they won't all be applied to the same armor location. That AC-20 does all it's damage to one spot.

Now the COMBINATION of these systems is even more deadly. A couple shots with an AC-20 to make a hole in someone's armor and then spam missiles over him to seek multiple crits down the hole...

Srms are far easier to aim than lrm's. An experienced pilot will be able to target the ac-20 just fine.


I agree that the cat is at a disadvantage though. The missile pods have less armor and if the ammo is stored there as well... ouch

Edited by ScientificMethod, 27 June 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[ScrapIron Prime]

ScientificMethod, on 27 June 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Srms are far easier to aim than lrm's. An experienced pilot will be able to target the ac-20 just fine.

You know this from the current game engine?

[ScientificMethod]

ScrapIron Prime, on 27 June 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

You know this from the current game engine?

You can't "aim" lrm's at a specific spot. Just watching gameplay video you can tell about the srm's. They're far more focused (shorter stream of missiles in flight) than in MW4

[Jakob Knight]

ScientificMethod, on 27 June 2012 - 06:09 PM, said:

No offense but loading up even just four srm 4's would outdamage the ac-20 in the hands of a skilled pilot.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/SRM_4
2 damage a missile


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/AC-20
20 damage

Both have equivalent range. I really think it comes down to who can aim better. Both have ammo explosions to worry about.

Something you have to factor in as well....heat. Taking the tabletop rules as an example, firing an AC/20 generates 7 heat points while firing 4 SRM6s generates 16 heat. There is also the need for more ammo slots with multiple SRM launchers, and also the possibility the target will have an AMS system.

[Wolftrap]

I think it boils down to do you want to do random spread damage with either srms or lrms or do you want to do large damage to single location....knowing theres a chance you'll miss and have done nothing to mech. LRMs lock on and with narc beacon its easier...unless your using streak srms(streak srm 2s only one available to IS players at start) than srms can miss just as easy as anything else you shot and still spreads the damage around. So no matter what it depends on personal choice.......my choice was the Catapult and my friends was the Hunchback....I'll soften'em up and he can weather the storm to finish them off.

[sillybee]

THX Wolftrap - "So no matter what it depends on personal choice.......my choice was the Catapult and my friends was the Hunchback....I'll soften'em up and he can weather the storm to finish them off."


Its all about tactics and teamplay - no one on one shootout at midday - so have fun with your hunchback

Edited by sillybee, 28 June 2012 - 03:44 AM.