38 replies to this topic

[luxebo]

Soultraxx, on 16 December 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

When Im in my Mist Lynx or Locust Im still only getting damage around one hundred/ one hundred and fifty, but that's twice or thrice my class weight or more which seems ok for a newb.

The only heavy Ive tried is the Hellbringer and the Assaults are Dires and Crabs.
The wep load outs I use are UAC5 based.

The only Mech Im reasonably good in besides my lights is my Stormcrow.

Since you have at least up to the Adder, I'd suggest you go try just that; Kit Fox too. Try all the light trials, maybe you'd scrape a ton out of them, as Locusts and Mist Lynxs are the cheapest lights in the game (well Dasher and Urbies too but they ain't in game yet).

On average how much are you doing in a Stormcrow? Those things hit like trucks no matter what loadout, although a lot of guys want laser boats and similar.

For the Hellbringer, do you know how to use ECM well enough? Remember, stock layout is J for countering (which you will be using a ton due to how well other ECM/BAP works against you). Push back J to disrupt once again. Also, a lot of guys like asymmetric builds on the Loki, as it is strong. Relying on ECM is key for this guy, and ambushing enemies (getting the first hits off) is key, even back in MW4 days.

For KGC and DW, did you try anything but UACs? I'm assuming UAC5 for DW, but either way, UACs make both assaults face the enemy way too long. You end up staring at the enemy and your CT getting shot off before doing your job, or at least I think this is happening. That means try some other loadouts, like gauss and AC20 (recommending AC20 for KGC), so you can fire once, turn, fire again, turn and repeat. This will allow some spreading of damage and you won't die so quickly.

Last note, I will say that damage is not a standard of your skill. You might end up spreading damage across every body part of all mechs and not aiming well. If you are killing and destroying a lot but doing low damage, don't fret, you are doing the good thing by finishing people off! Sometimes in some of my mechs (ahem AC20 Raven) I pull off less than 100 damage yet score 2-3 kills because I aim to kill (CT rear is awesome). And don't count of headshots, that just never happens (until later when you are skilled). It's best to aim off certain body parts that you know will hurt (XL engine aim sides, big guns on one arm aim there, etc).

[Soultraxx]

Hello.

Im the OP.

Thank you all for the information - plenty for me to read and absorb. Its nice to have such a supportive community to help new players.

So, lots of information for me to read and learn from plus some questions for me to answer.
Because I am posting from my phone in work I cant do the "quote" thing easily so Ill just make a few one line statements instead. If Ive missed out an answer for your question by mistake then my apologies.

•I dont think I have a lag problem as my ping is always around 90

•My FPS is always ok (i dont know exactly but its always smooth)

•I have lowered my mouse sensitivity

•I am currently PuGging 100% of the time.

•I was in a Group but I left as I felt I couldn't commit enough time to them as a casual player. A pity as the ones I grouped with were very knowlegable and helpful (a salute to the Windbourne Highlanders) Edit added...I was with the WBH on my IS account - Ryan220

•I always use spectator mode to see how others are doing things - an excellent way to learn

•I am aware of the importance of situational awareness but oft' find myself getting tunnel vision and suffering for it

•I know the ECM modes

•My Stormcrow damage is usually 200 - 350 (of course I have plenty of bad scores as well)

•To those that have PM'd me - Thank you, I will read your messages as soon as Ive written this post.

I think its all down to experience (or lack of it). I am perhaps expecting too much too soon. This is not helped by the fact that Im also jumping around the different Mech classes quite frequently instead of specialising in just one - the bane of a new player I guess? Im like a dog in a field full of people throwing sticks :-)

I think I need to formulate a plan as to how Im going to progress in MWO so that I can become more of an asset rather than a liabilty.

I do have a question regarding ECM - if someone is countering me, are my only options to hunt them down or move out of range?

Many thanks

Edited by Soultraxx, 17 December 2014 - 03:18 AM.

[JC Daxion]

Shar Wolf, on 16 December 2014 - 10:53 PM, said:

70 ton Cataphract.

75 Ton Orion
75 Ton Timberwolf

70 ton Cataphract.

oops... Fixed thanks.. it has been a while since i loaded one up




OP: yea, jumping around can be hard.. it always takes a few matches to get into the groove. Though when i jump into a new mech... I swear it typically takes me to at least elites most of the time before i find a build that really works for me on many mechs. I rarely run meta builds, and like to think outside the box.. Though with quirks i have found myself using less totally outside the box builds, it is just the nature of them.. get a 40% recharge decrease on an LBX-10 cent.. why the heck not use an LBX-10! Check out the quirks list on mechs you think you might like, then go from there.. picking a mech that leans towards what you like is always a good thing.


So outside of fast mechs, what kind of weapons do you enjoy? that can really help you choose your next mech as well.

Edited by JC Daxion, 17 December 2014 - 03:30 AM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Soultraxx, on 17 December 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

I think I need to formulate a plan as to how Im going to progress in MWO so that I can become more of an asset rather than a liabilty.

Just remember that no plan survives contact with the enemy! The best thing is to have fun as you learn.

The Learning Curve is steep right now, but you can get there to where you are an asset, and no worries anyway in the solo queue. If other players complain, let them, just shrug it off and drop in another match.

So one thing to focus on as you learn more about MWO is to develop contingencies as to where you can position yourself in a match. That's often the most important detail for a slow assault so that they can contribute, and it's not easy if other players are jumping into your firing lanes, just roll with the punches and keep trying. Also have contingencies ready for some matches where you can get left behind, so you'd need to develop strategies for those times as to where you can use cover to regroup or wait to see where the enemy is so that you could flank or engage an enemy on the edge.

I forgot about this earlier, but one tactic to practice when dealing with a faster circling mech is to counter-turn. Basically if an enemy is circling clockwise wait for them to fire then turn counter-clockwise as you slow down and throttle forward and reverse as you turn. You will be able to get aim back on target faster and can redirect the enemy or get to lay in some damage. Once an Assault is fully elited with 2x Basic this can be very easy once you have a feel for how it works.

Another long-term focus would be to, be able to anticipate where the enemy can go based on where your team is and if any targets have been spotted yet or not, so such contingencies vary from map to map and can evolve over time too, but you'll pick up such things up as you keep dropping in matches.

Also set a goal to earn GXP and C-Bills for modules such as Seismic Sensor. This one module can benefit you greatly in moving around, there are others, but I recommend going for that one first.

---

And I regularly switch back and forth between my mechs. I have a bunch and I play every class, just that I tend to play Heavies the least in the solo que due to wait times.

So it is not slowing you down much switching mechs since it allows you different perspectives over time. As you learn the nuances of the mechs you are piloting you can take advantage of that later when you face those mechs in matches.

Quote

I do have a question regarding ECM - if someone is countering me, are my only options to hunt them down or move out of range?

You can try to move out of range or if you are also being blocked, sometimes it can be the Clan / Beagle Active Probe blocking, so I'd try switching my own ECM to Counter mode to see if there is an enemy ECM out there.

[Soultraxx]

Thank you again for the replies (I seem to be saying that more and more - although the increase in frequency doesn't decrease the sincerity)

@JC Daxion.

I shall check out the quirks list as you suggest.

The weapons I favour are UACs and Pulse lasers. The range just "feels" right for me and the ability to "spread" the shots helps make up for aiming inaccuracies.

I have one of my Stormcrows set up as a LRM boat (it wasnt by choice as the variant was part of the Maskari package) It has an Active Probe, Narc, LRM15, 10 and 5 and a SRM (I forget which). I've found intermittent success with it - sometimes I do well and other times not so well. I both like and dislike LRMs, but once Ive mastered the Stormcrow I doubt Ill be LRM boating very much.

@Praetor Knight.

Thanks for the advice and for answering my ECM question. The recurring theme is experience and quite rightly so. It took me years to get some of my DDO characters to a level where they could solo Epic Elite content. Im suprised I thought that MWO would've any different - ANS Arrogant Noob Syndrome lol

[AaronWolf]

Aside from the amazing information here. A quick explanation as to why you may be having more trouble is:

Heavy mechs (And Assaults), lack the capability to move out of rough situations as easily as lighter mechs. You have to becareful of your positioning at all times. And compensate for your lack of speed, with knowing how to use cover effectively and torso-rolling. Spreading damage over your armor is one of the best defenses after being behind cover.

Thankfully, if you are forced into a slug-fest in a heavier mech, you can more commonly survive it than you would in a light/medium.

That is the trade off. Speed for armor + size + weapons. As you well know.

Coordination with your team is also a huge huge thing when piloting larger mechs. Hell, it applies to all mech phenotypes! But a big thing for larger mechs. You can't get out of dodge like the smaller guys as easy.

[Jody Von Jedi]

JC Daxion, on 16 December 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

You also could go with a 55 ton mech like the wolverine to help bring you into larger weight classes. while still quick, they pack more armor and firepower.

I second this suggestion. If you like SRMs, the GRF is a great mech too. Much taller than the WVR though and a little more balanced hardpoint locations.

JC Daxion, on 16 December 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

T-bolts are an odd duck, but the pulse boat is a lot of fun, especially when you drop a pair of ER-ll's or LL's in them as they lost the MPL quirk, but kept the generic heat reduction. It also has a JJ model which is wonderful.

When did this happen?!? I hope not, this is one of my favorite quirks.

Smurfy still shows the MPL quirk on the 5SS.

Edit: Ah man, I see the difference. They removed the MPL -12.5% heat gen. It was too good to last I guess?

Edited by Jody Von Jedi, 17 December 2014 - 10:17 AM.

[lsp]

Voivode, on 16 December 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Inexperience, my friend. Lucky for you, all it takes is time in cockpit shooting robots to fix that.

Personally, maneuverability is my style, so I feel you. The further you move up the weight classes, the more difficult it is to get out of a situation that's gone sour. In a light, you can book it out before the hammer drops. You probably do well in the Stormcrow because that mech is fast enough to escape quite a few fights that aren't working in your favor.

The skill you'll need to work on is "situational awareness", and more specifically, learning when to (and when not to) commit to a fight. Heavies and assaults are in a fight to the end once you commit. So if you commit to the wrong fight, you don't get to come away alive like a light or fast medium will. How do you learn which fights to commit to? By dying, horribly, over and over until a small voice builds in your mind that says "I've died like this before, maybe I shouldn't do this thing"

Pretty much this. Torso twisting and being able to control your mech is invaluable also. Memorizing the maps is also beneficial, which will happen naturally after playing them hundreds of times. And using the right builds and knowing how to play them. This is a good place to start http://metamechs.com/

Edited by lsp, 17 December 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Clownwarlord]

OK two things that medium and light players have adjusting to when piloting heavies and assault. Like I said two things:

1 - Adjusting to the fact that you are slower and harder to move. This everyone knows and it is also easy to adjust because the more you play the weight class the better.

2 - The second is hard to realize. It is the fact that yes you have more armor and more weapons but you can still die. A lot of players get self empowered when piloting a heavier mech and they let their judgement get the best of them. It is more sub-conscience then something you notice. The best way to counter this is to force your self to play slower, think it out how is the enemy setup and how you can best eliminate return fire when you go to shoot the enemy.

If you can counter those when switching from a lighter weight class to a heavier the better you will do otherwise it is consistency of playing that weight class that makes you better at playing such weight class.

Edited by clownwarlord, 17 December 2014 - 10:46 AM.

[TripleEhBeef]

Some mediums, like the Hunchback 4G, can be played as "poor man heavies" with a fairly low cost to set up. The main difference is that the lighter armour forces you to use cover more often and torso twist to spread damage and protect more vital components (IE, your Big Frakking Gun).

However, these are good skills to learn for heavies and assaults. I rarely see Atlases twisting damage onto their arms to protect their AC20 and SRMs, which is where their main brawling damage comes from. The ones that do though stay effective a lot longer and dish out some pretty mean damage numbers.

[jper4]

my biggest problem in assaults has always been watching assaults play timid and hide behind the lighter mechs when i'm in my mediums, so when i use one of my rare assaults i try to avoid that and push when i think the time is right with my assault hoping for the team to support. in PUGs you've got about a 30% chance of that happening so i tend to get focus fired down because i commit and am too slow to get away (of course the team is probably crowded right behind me giving me no room to retreat anyway)

heavies aren;t as much an issue for me because they can reach the bottom end of the medium speeds i'm used to but do seem a bit sluggish and are seen as higher targeting priorities than my usual mechs. but you do need to play more group centric rather than doing all the fun flanking in the mediums and lights until the team push starts.

ideally you might have better luck working your way up the weight classes instead of jumping from light to assault. shadowhawks to me have similar playstyle to heavies but due to JJs are more manuverable than the average heavy. once you have them down going to a heavy isn;t as bad, centurions and hunchbacks are good for working on your torso twisting and damage scattering that'd you'll need on the bigger mechs. see a hunchy or cent running around in zombie mode under 25% health and they're doing it right. may help you save your big guns on the big mechs one day when you get that down.

[KodiakGW]

Practice, practice, practice.

You do know about Testing Grounds? Choice on the Home tab. Perfect to test loadouts for heat management, ammo amounts, set weapon groupings, test skill with various weapons, and ability to keep duration weapons on target while moving.

I wish they had Solaris respawn arena mode. It's how I went from playing MW4:Mercs with a joystick to a keypad/mouse, and never looked back.

[luxebo]

Soultraxx, on 17 December 2014 - 02:53 AM, said:

•I dont think I have a lag problem as my ping is always around 90
•My FPS is always ok (i dont know exactly but its always smooth)
•I have lowered my mouse sensitivity
•I am currently PuGging 100% of the time.
•I was in a Group but I left as I felt I couldn't commit enough time to them as a casual player. A pity as the ones I grouped with were very knowlegable and helpful (a salute to the Windbourne Highlanders) Edit added...I was with the WBH on my IS account - Ryan220
•I always use spectator mode to see how others are doing things - an excellent way to learn
•I am aware of the importance of situational awareness but oft' find myself getting tunnel vision and suffering for it
•I know the ECM modes
•My Stormcrow damage is usually 200 - 350 (of course I have plenty of bad scores as well)
I do have a question regarding ECM - if someone is countering me, are my only options to hunt them down or move out of range?

You prob want to find a team (prob a Ghost Bear group) to join and group que. Think of CW too, you will be relying on your Stormcrows, maybe your Hellbringers too. Dire Wolf/Kit Fox at the last moments. (IS mechs for IS factions, Clan mechs for Clan factions).

In a group just join as a casual guy, which is sorta what I do. It doesn't matter how much time you spend with the group, just play to your leisure.

Stormcrow relies on speed and raiding. The Hellbringer should play similarly to the Stormcrow, so it should provide you with practically the same damage/score wise.

Getting countered with ECM means to move out of range in a faster mech (yeah right moving out of range in my DDC) but in a Hellbringer, as long as you have support move in and kill the ECM user. Or get out of range if you are narced/tagged/BAPed. You have to get people to notify you if you are narced or tagged though (maybe you can spot yourself getting tagged).

Try your KGCs and DW with different loadouts, I'm guessing you were using UACs and that isn't the best idea without skill in twisting and turning.

Edit: f9 gives you FPS and coordinates. shift + f11 if I recall correctly gives the invisible hud (but don't use it seriously or you are screwing yourself over).

Edited by luxebo, 17 December 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[mailin]

When your ECM is countered, it largely depends on the circumstance about what to do. But, essentially your choices are to either run away, or find out who is countering and engage. When I'm in my lights I will usually try to find out who is countering, unless I'm trying to be stealthy, then I run away. In the Hellbringer the situation should be much different because you should never be alone and they aren't as fast as a Spider or Raven (my usual rides).

As far as increasing your damage one thing that I haven't seen posted yet is that ballistics require you to lead your target and they also drop off with range. For these reasons I really suck at ballistics.

One suggestion that you may want to try on your Stormcrow is to replace all of your missiles with streaks. Clan mechs can mount streak 6s, which are devastating. I have 5 streak 4s and a medium laser on my Stormcrow and I consistently do 400-700 damage and will often get a least 1 or 2 kills.

Good luck and hope to see you on the battlefield.

Edited by mailin, 18 December 2014 - 07:20 PM.

[M X Striker]

If you're looking for a solid Unit to join, you can click on my signature below, and check out the Templar Mercenary Company. We're currently allied with Davion for CW. We're a mature group, with no drama, a training program, and the commitment to get the job done. We can provide builds, guidance, and most of all the teamwork to help you out.

Thanks,

[Karamarka]

Cuz lights had lag shield that protected them making them last forever.

[ThisOneDiesALot]

Fajther, on 16 December 2014 - 05:03 PM, said:

Good for you!!! If you like lights keep playing them! There is no reason to play assualts if you don't want to. If you are capable of hitting higher then your weight, then you will be an asset to your team. If a firestarter of a jeenner can take down an assualt, you may be the person that wins it for your team. Just keep working on being the best light piolt you can be.

woooooord! i manage 4 to 6 kills and around 600 dmg per match in embers and huginns. you just need to know how to do it. also, the "best" light pilots out there get out of matches with 1000+ dmg. however, i think it's kinda poor effectiveness ("you need THAT much dmg to finally kill your targets???").

but nothing wrong with trying other chassis. so far i'm also very confident in my erppc erLL jester and working on orions. (spoiler alert: ON1-M literally *pukes* the LB10-X as if it is a machine gun! very funny to play with!!)

btw, being a light pilot seems to be kind of an elite. the queue is below 10% for them most of the time. everyone is playing heavies. so stick to light if you like it. MWO really needs more light pilots. (esp. good ones)

[Kahadras]

I admit that I prefer lights and mediums over assaults. I've spent time playing with the heavier classes but I quickly drift back to my mechs which weigh 55 tons or less. I think I like mobility far too much and assault mechs just feel horribly sluggish. I respect people who pilot heavier mechs but I'm happiest when I'm in my Raven or Wolverine.

[Marcel Bekker]

I see a lot of people in this thread prefer the agility of lights and mediums over heavys and assaults (like myself too). For everyone of those, I suggest trying out the Summoner. After it got the acceleration/deceleration and speed quirks, it behaves much more like a medium than a heavy in terms of handling, only the Jump jets are still a bit sluggish. One Alt. Config that I think is really effective in regular matches would be the C, which is not in MWO as a stock version but can be built easily from the Prime. Primary Weapon is the UAC20, supported by a Streak 6 and an ER Large Laser to have at least some way to deal damage at range when there is no good opportunity to close and smash someones face in.
Some skill in juggling with different weapon types is needed to make this work though, but for people lacking this there is always the Summoner B.