38 replies to this topic

[Soultraxx]

Hello all.

Ive read that that lights are the hardest class to start in, yet I do so much better in Lights.

In Assaults and heavies Im barely scraping my weight in damage.

When Im in my Mist Lynx or Locust Im still only getting damage around one hundred/ one hundred and fifty, but that's twice or thrice my class weight or more which seems ok for a newb.

The only heavy Ive tried is the Hellbringer and the Assaults are Dires and Crabs.

Im not charging head on, Im watching my flanks, Im in range and Ive read the guides I can find, yet Im always taking wads of damage despite trying roll it.
The wep load outs I use are UAC5 based.

The only Mech Im reasonably good in besides my lights is my Stormcrow.


I think its possible Ive become too reliant on maneuovrabilty(sp?) without realising it.

Its frustrating that I cant fathom out what Im doing wrong.

Any thoughts to help pinpoint the issue would be appreciated.

Many thanks

[Scout Derek]

Okay, first up, look up some meta builds, they can help you put out WAY more damage than that, say 3-4 times more damage if you can really get into it . Second, If you haven't already, find a unit to join up with, or find some units that can help you get better. Lastly, If you feel that the meta builds aren't your style, then that's okay, being you when you play is much better than doing what others have posted. Any more questions? Post them here and I'll try and answer them. ~Scout Derek.

[Voivode]

Inexperience, my friend. Lucky for you, all it takes is time in cockpit shooting robots to fix that.

Personally, maneuverability is my style, so I feel you. The further you move up the weight classes, the more difficult it is to get out of a situation that's gone sour. In a light, you can book it out before the hammer drops. You probably do well in the Stormcrow because that mech is fast enough to escape quite a few fights that aren't working in your favor.

The skill you'll need to work on is "situational awareness", and more specifically, learning when to (and when not to) commit to a fight. Heavies and assaults are in a fight to the end once you commit. So if you commit to the wrong fight, you don't get to come away alive like a light or fast medium will. How do you learn which fights to commit to? By dying, horribly, over and over until a small voice builds in your mind that says "I've died like this before, maybe I shouldn't do this thing"

Edited by Voivode, 16 December 2014 - 11:58 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Voivode, on 16 December 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

Inexperience, my friend. Lucky for you, all it takes is time in cockpit shooting robots to fix that.

Personally, maneuverability is my style, so I feel you. The further you move up the weight classes, the more difficult it is to get out of a situation that's gone sour. In a light, you can book it out before the hammer drops. You probably do well in the Stormcrow because that mech is fast enough to escape quite a few fights that aren't working in your favor.

The skill you'll need to work on is "situational awareness", and more specifically, learning when to (and when not to) commit to a fight. Heavies and assaults are in a fight to the end once you commit. So if you commit to the wrong fight, you don't get to come away alive like a light or fast medium will. How do you learn which fights to commit to? By dying, horribly, over and over until a small voice builds in your mind that says "I've died like this before, maybe I shouldn't do this thing"

Also frame rate, it used to kill my mood when I had a fresh computer with no good internals... 20 fps at the time D: , but now it's 60 at medium quality

[Lanceafer]

Each class have a very different feel too them. Don't worry if you are not as good in one as the other. I find that the slower mechs need to be played more defensive vs lights and med that are fast, can strike quick and break off and come back again. Heavy and assault are the ones taking that hit. With that in mind you want to watch your position on the battlefield. You don't need to have your back to the wall or stick to narrow firing lines, just know where the enemy is and where your team is. This is called situational awareness. I know that is not all that helpful but let me try to explain how I use my King Crab.

My King Crab is the 000(L). I have 4 UAC/5s and two med lasers. I only move at 48 kph and most people when I tell them that say that's way too slow. What I do though is not charge into combat guns blazing (or a slow walk), I give the team about 15 seconds to start moving. This clears the lights from under my feet and I can see where the team is headed. Watch on the map how people spread out and you will quickly see a general direction and start slowly making your way there. Stay out of tight spaces when able and try to keep good sigh lines as you move. As a light pilot you will hug walls and duck between close buildings for cover. In a crab you are the cover and the tight spaces will only hamper your movement, block shots, and cause you problems.

When you start to see where the enemy are coming from try to take note of what they are. Is it a light mech popping for a look or a direwolf establishing a firing position. In a light you wanted it to be something small and just taking a peek. In the Crab you want the direwolf. The reason is you know where he is now and hopefully he is not looking at you quite yet. This gives you a few seconds to position yourself. Get him in view and don't worry so much about if you are in front of him or not. your perfect spot that I have found is at about a 45* angle to his facing not the direction he is looking.

As soon as you see him show him why they call you the King and not just a crab. 4 UAC/5s cause damage and terror, do not underestimate the fear. As tempting as it is to just mash the alpha again and again (and there is a time for that believe me) chain fire into his hide. He will first think what is this little plinking to my left. When he starts to turn hit him with all 4 and move away from your cover. Aim for his face, not for a headshot, but because you will shake the crap out of him and he suddenly cant see you though all the fire. If he stays calm he will try to return fire, if not he will start to back away and twist. Because you were moving as you started to shoot when he tries to alpha your already on the go. Don't get blood thirsty and chase him. If he wants to leave, let him. This is especially important when facing heavy and med mechs. By the time you get to where you last saw them they are re-positioned and ready for you. Check for your next target. Don't forget about who you just hit because you just gave him a bloody nose and he will be back. Get back to cover or catch up with the rest of your team. Watch your mini map for blips behind you and be ready to turn to face one. Its ok to stand a little exposed for the next time your target breaks cover, just don't stand in a field.

Quick edit for a couple other points (man that was a long post as it is)
UAC/5s have 600m range by default use it.

Aim for legs on lights and alpha to take them down fast.

If you see any point on your target that has no armor hit it. It will come off fast and cause panic and reduce his effectiveness.

If you are falling back twist all the way to one side to show them a big arm. Better loose two cannons than pop your core.

Hope that helps.

Edited by Lanceafer, 16 December 2014 - 12:31 PM.

[Gauvan]

In addition to the good points already provided, the two assaults you are piloting are the slowest, least maneuverable mechs in the game. They are very focused on what they can do and require a specific play style. I think if you tried something like a Stalker or a Victor (I think there are trials) it would give you a more well rounded mech to experiment with. Also, assuming you've skilled up in your lights, going into a new chassis with no skill unlocks will also impact the ease of play.

You didn't mention what game mode you play in. If it's the solo queue then piloting an assault can be weird. Most of the time you cannot push forward to attack because lighter mechs tend to fade when shot at. You can't stay in the back because then you aren't contributing damage. I think playing the Hellbringer is actually great practice because the place you want to be to provide ECM cover is a good place for solo queue assaults--somewhere between the front and the middle of the engagement.

[Fajther]

Good for you!!! If you like lights keep playing them! There is no reason to play assualts if you don't want to. If you are capable of hitting higher then your weight, then you will be an asset to your team. If a firestarter of a jeenner can take down an assualt, you may be the person that wins it for your team. Just keep working on being the best light piolt you can be.

[Void Angel]

In order to be the best light pilot you can be, you need to know how the other classes behave - which means piloting them. Keep working at it, Soul; you'll get it down eventually.

[Bulletsponge0]

Soultraxx, on 16 December 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Hello all.

Ive read that that lights are the hardest class to start in, yet I do so much better in Lights.

In Assaults and heavies Im barely scraping my weight in damage.

When Im in my Mist Lynx or Locust Im still only getting damage around one hundred/ one hundred and fifty, but that's twice or thrice my class weight or more which seems ok for a newb.

The only heavy Ive tried is the Hellbringer and the Assaults are Dires and Crabs.

Im not charging head on, Im watching my flanks, Im in range and Ive read the guides I can find, yet Im always taking wads of damage despite trying roll it.
The wep load outs I use are UAC5 based.

The only Mech Im reasonably good in besides my lights is my Stormcrow.


I think its possible Ive become too reliant on maneuovrabilty(sp?) without realising it.

Its frustrating that I cant fathom out what Im doing wrong.

Any thoughts to help pinpoint the issue would be appreciated.

Many thanks

I was like you when I started.


I atarted out in assaults....trying to be the big boy on the block, and was terible at them

then, after being repeatedly shredded by lights, I decided to join them and started piloting lights. and I had an amazing amount of fun and success. Slowly, I started moving up weight classes, in attempt to better learn how to kill them, as well as trying to make myself a more well rounded mech warrior. Now, I absolutely love heavies. They are a very different playstyle than lights. Cover is more important because they lack the sheer speed to get out of trouble. I suggest, in matches where you die early, to spectate other pilots on your team that are in heavies. Se what they do that gives them success, and also look for mistakes they make so you can avoid doing the same.

[InspectorG]

Soultraxx, on 16 December 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Hello all.

Ive read that that lights are the hardest class to start in, yet I do so much better in Lights.

In Assaults and heavies Im barely scraping my weight in damage.

When Im in my Mist Lynx or Locust Im still only getting damage around one hundred/ one hundred and fifty, but that's twice or thrice my class weight or more which seems ok for a newb.

The only heavy Ive tried is the Hellbringer and the Assaults are Dires and Crabs.

Im not charging head on, Im watching my flanks, Im in range and Ive read the guides I can find, yet Im always taking wads of damage despite trying roll it.
The wep load outs I use are UAC5 based.

The only Mech Im reasonably good in besides my lights is my Stormcrow.


I think its possible Ive become too reliant on maneuovrabilty(sp?) without realising it.

Its frustrating that I cant fathom out what Im doing wrong.

Any thoughts to help pinpoint the issue would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Im in the same boat.
Started light and (fast) medium, suck at Assaults.

Banshee is a good starting place. XL400 Wubshee handles like a slightly drunk Hunchback...to me at least.

[Ano]

Like the others have said, don't feel bad about it.

I'm cursed with really lousy navigation ability -- in games and IRL -- and it takes me AGES to remember routes on maps. I still almost always have to check big map to work out where I've spawned.

In the small/fast mechs, not knowing the map isn't so much of a drawback as you can run away quickly. The bigger/slower mechs can't do that, so for best results you need to know stuff like
* where do the snipers hang out on this map
* where do the brawls happen on this map
* where does the other team group up on this map
* is what looks like a route from A>B passable in a slow mech? Are there steep hills which will bring your mech to a near standstill while you climb it, and will you be exposed while this happens? Will you have to walk all the way around the canyon/mountain base to get to the other side, leaving you exposed?
* Where are YOUR team likely to go -- so you don't wander off on your own and get torn up by a light lance

Also, VoiVode made the commitment point very well -- you can't back out once you're "in" in the heavier, slower mechs, so learning when to commit is essential -- and that just takes time.

Also, if you're using UACs in Clan mechs, then the burst-first nature of Clan ACs (where they fire multiple bullets per trigger pull, vs. the one click=1 bullet of IS ACs) means if you don't keep your target focused during the fire, some of the bullets may miss. It also means you're directly facing your target, which can be bad for your health if they're firing back at you!

[Ano]

Also, try moving up more slowly. I don't know if you're playing trials or buying mechs, but try some of the mediums. I can't check to see which are available at the moment, but maybe look at the speed of the trial mediums and try the fastest that isn't a Cicada (which by all accounts plays a lot like a light).

One more thing: if you haven't already, check the in-game mouse sensitivity. If you find that you're spraying ordinance everywhere when trying to move and keep your reticle locked on target, dropping this down can be a big help.

Edited by Ano, 16 December 2014 - 06:14 PM.

[Koniving]

Some assault mech play. Perhaps it will give you some ideas.

Spoiler

Playing with Shar Wolf.


Kon playing seriously.


This Atlas uses Standard heatsinks.


Warhawk in group combat versus many Clan mechs.


King Crab inspired brawler (Warhawk; before King Crab in MWO)


Dire Wolf -- King of the Caldera.


Warhawk and Awesome versus Timber Wolf, Two Dire Wolves, Spider, Two Kitfoxes,

Description has the events in full detail.

Glass fire support (almost dying right off the bat, I manage to stay alive for a long time).


Atlas and Dire Wolf.


Banshee; 1,000+ damage


Banshee energy brawler


Highlanders:
Skip to 5 minutes in.

After you see the score skip to 6:40


For your heavy... Here.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Soultraxx, on 16 December 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Hello all.

Ive read that that lights are the hardest class to start in, yet I do so much better in Lights.

In Assaults and heavies Im barely scraping my weight in damage.

When Im in my Mist Lynx or Locust Im still only getting damage around one hundred/ one hundred and fifty, but that's twice or thrice my class weight or more which seems ok for a newb.

The only heavy Ive tried is the Hellbringer and the Assaults are Dires and Crabs.

Im not charging head on, Im watching my flanks, Im in range and Ive read the guides I can find, yet Im always taking wads of damage despite trying roll it.
The wep load outs I use are UAC5 based.

The only Mech Im reasonably good in besides my lights is my Stormcrow.


I think its possible Ive become too reliant on maneuovrabilty(sp?) without realising it.

Its frustrating that I cant fathom out what Im doing wrong.

Any thoughts to help pinpoint the issue would be appreciated.

Many thanks

Anybody know if they fixed the Hellbringers hit boxes yet, as that is the heavy the OP is piloting? At OP, they are supposed to be fixing the Hellbringer soon (if not already) because its center torso hit box is way to big. If you are piloting that mech and getting cored every match, that may be reduced soon depending on when that fix goes in.

I personally prefer mediums in MWO, just like the balance of agility, speed, and firepower over the other classes. As others have said, situational awareness is very important. Walk into a crossfire of several enemy mechs and you will be taken out surprisingly fast even in an assault. The slow speed of most heavies and assaults just compounds the issue of making a positioning error, as you don't have the speed to escape. Use cover whenever possible, and never expose more of your mech than you need to when facing the enemy.

Theres also a built in tutorial that many don't recognize, and thats spectator mode after you have been 'killed' in a match. Stick around after a match (if you aren't already) and watch what other players do. It can be very informational, both in what to do and what not to do, in both tactics and builds. In the end experience will come the more you play, and if you keep with it you might start surprising yourself in what you can accomplish .

[Tarl Cabot]

What amount of damage do you think you should be doing?

1. Heavy/Assault become primary targets.
2. Higher damage also includes ammo explosions. Remember how much damage each weapon, and it has to hit. For lasers that also means keeping the laser on a target for its duration, as the damage is done in increments. Without ammo explosions we would not see anything near 1k of damage.

[Jody Von Jedi]

The other issue with Heavies and Assaults, is once you round a corner, you're committed. You can't back up quick enough to avoid taking massive amounts of damage. You need to know what's around a corner, before you make the turn. Rely on your teammates. I know you probably don't have any modules, but Seismic sensor lets you "see" around corners if you're standing still and the enemy is around the corner moving around.

IMHO, An agile Medium is one of the best mechs to learn in. They have the speed of a light in some cases, and can alpha strike and have the speed to get away. Some SRM based builds can rival a heavy or even an assault in shear fire power.

Not to discourage you from playing heavier mechs, but you might be better served by getting a fast medium first.

Edited by Jody Von Jedi, 16 December 2014 - 10:20 PM.

[JC Daxion]

I hear ya.. when i first made the switch to assaults, i was really really really bad.. In fact i made this exact same post last summer

that said.. I have learned a lot, over that time.. To me the number one thing you need to do when starting out with assaults, is get some long range weapons. While they may not be the best builds, while you are leveling up skills, they will make your time a ton easier. Sticking in an LRM 15 rack, PPC's, or ER-ll's on top of a pair of Ac-10's or a single AC-20 depending on the mech is a really good idea. You pack a decent punch up close, but can do damage from afar, before you get your spead and maneuverability tweaks which help you far more than any other weight class, It also is not a bad idea to stick a larger engine in than normal before speed tweak to help it along.

But might i suggest going with heavies first.. the 65 ton heavies, Cat's t-bolts, Jags, are all great mechs.. and the 70 ton cataphract is just wonderful. Personally i will run XL's up to 65 tons, but after that i make the switch to STD's. the T-bolt is one you can still run an STD, but i prefer um with a 300XL.

since quirks Cat's have really started to pop again, even with the slight nerfs.. (though they were hardly to strong, so maybe it is just them trying out more quirks to see how they effect mech play.) **crosses fingers for my LRM 15 quirk!

T-bolts are an odd duck, but the pulse boat is a lot of fun, especially when you drop a pair of ER-ll's or LL's in them as they lost the MPL quirk, but kept the generic heat reduction. It also has a JJ model which is wonderful.

You also could go with a 55 ton mech like the wolverine to help bring you into larger weight classes. while still quick, they pack more armor and firepower.

Lastly, the number one thing you need to do is grab the Radar deprivation module, and stay close to cover, and learn to twist like "chubby checker" when you spread out 400 damage around your mech, that can be the difference between victory and death.

Edited by JC Daxion, 17 December 2014 - 03:10 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

JC Daxion, on 16 December 2014 - 10:20 PM, said:

.....75 ton cataphract ...

70 ton Cataphract.

75 Ton Orion
75 Ton Timberwolf

70 ton Cataphract.

[Vlad Striker]

Hellbrinner id an excellent mech. It's main role - to support heavy and assaults by flanking and concentrating fire. Forget about flying all battlefield, find some direwolf and consort him and care.
This mech not build for the first line, reconnaissance in force or draw fire.

You can use 2 AC5 + 4 CMLs for prime variant like Shadow Hawk.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Soultraxx, on 16 December 2014 - 11:43 AM, said:

Any thoughts to help pinpoint the issue would be appreciated.

I wonder if you have lowered your mouse sensitivity? Lowering that can make it easier to stay on target to deal more damage with weapons.

---

Heavies can have a good blend of mobility and firepower, but sometimes the enemy will simply focus down high priority targets.

Hellbringers are becoming a new High Priority Target due to its blend of ECM and high Torso hardpoints (I know that I try to take them out ASAP). One of the more annoying builds to face against is one that uses four C-ERMLs in their head and left torso. SInce I don't own one yet, I'm sure that there are better setups, but if I get one in the future I'd try this build. This way you have two to three weapon groups: the arms on one groups and then two for the torso MLs where one can be either chainfire or have just two to three so that you can still fire when running hot to be able to keep firing. And you can remove the Targeting Computer for more DHS or trade up on a weapon, such as use a C-LPL on a Left Torso hardpoint.

And when using this build you can sacrifice your right arm and torso to keep fighting with the weapons on the left side. And a rule of thumb if you notice that you regularly die with pristine rear torso armor, consider distributing more to the front, once you are able to move around well, you can protect your back and survive longer in shootouts. Hope that makes sense!

---

Direwolves have been High Priority Targets since their release, and it seems that King Crabs are earning a Higher Priority designation over time as well.

Also, on a slow Assault once you commit to an engagement, it's very hard to back out unless you have predetermined where you are intending to be and where you can move to for cover. That comes from knowing the maps and adapting to your team and the enemy, so it takes time and more experience in those mechs and on the maps.

To help out, watch more videos like the ones posted earlier, and if you die in a match, make sure to stay and spectate so that you can watch how others move around the maps if you are not staying to watch how matches play out.

Another thing that you've gotta practice is going unseen for as long as possible and using cover for concealment and protection from damage it works for any mech, but this is very important for slow Assaults. (Smufy has an excellent map resource here, so that you can get a sense of the layouts outside of using the Testing Grounds in game).

For Direwolves you can go cheese by using ERPPC and two Gauss with Front Loaded Armor (meaning ~10 or less armor on rear torsos, it depends on how low you are willing to go and able to still defend yourself). I haven't tried using that build with my Dires, but you can give it a shot. Also, do you know about Mech Specs?

My most consistent Dire build has been this UAC build. I use three groups, The Arm Ballistics, the Torso Ballistics and last the Laser. I don't chain fire and sometimes I try to double tap if I know that I can land those shots on target. I like Dakka so it suits me fine and I try to engage around ~300 M with this build most of the time.

The second Dire build I've stayed with though several matches has been this Splatter Build. Again I use three groups; one for the LB X, one for the Lasers, and the last for the SRMs. Inside of ~220 M, you can can sustain a barrage of LB X and SRMs with the Lasers sprinkled in based on heat level. And at range you can hit out to ~550 M with the MLs with enough damage to force enemies to twist or get to cover.

With my King Crab I've used this build, (which has plenty of room for improvement). With how wide it is I've split the ballistics into two groups one for left and the other for the right for now. WIth the MLs and SRMs you should stick them in separate groups.
An alternative is to scrap the SRMs, MLs, one DHS and Ammo to place two LL / ERLL (or even an ER/PPC!) since the energy mount is high on the mech.

---

Let us know what you think and if anything has helped. That way we can give you more detailed advice and tips to maximize your performance and allow you to enjoy your mechs more, especially when in slow Assaults!

Edited by Praetor Knight, 17 December 2014 - 12:23 AM.