194 replies to this topic

[Allen Ward]

Voivode, on 18 December 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

While I disagree that attackers "know" what they'll get (they totally don't) I do agree that they need an indication of what you'll be doing as far as attack/defend/counterattack up front so you can build the proper drop deck for it.

Yes, build a proper drop deck wull of laser and ppc boats and then get dropped on Sulfurous Rift. CW has no strategic or tactical planning element at all. It's all rolled up and no better than in the PUG queue. Only the major mission goals are different. Yes, you can communicate things like: all lights rush on 3rd wave...but what do you do on a lone wolf drop against Clans, where almost no one brought lights, or ECM or LRM boats... Clans laugh about IS being so uncoordinated, but the game doesn't allow for anything else.

[Allen Ward]

One question about attack/defense:

I thought it goes like this. Faction A attacks a planet from Faction B. They are considered Attackers. Faction B players gather to defend the planet, being Defenders sitting inside the gates. After the first battle Faction A has won and destroyed the generator. Now they sit within the base being "defenders of the map" for the next match. The planet still belongs to Faction B and they are still called "Defenders of that planet", but when they go into the next match here they are defending by doing a Counter-Attack. If they win, we revert back to the initial conditions.

Wrong? Is it rolled up who sits inside the base and who is outside? I see that many people get very confused by clicking "defend" and being thrown into a Counter-Attack, running against that gates. Maybe the wording could be changed a bit to make it clearer what we are doing on the level of a single macth and the level of planetary ownership.

What bugs me most is the easy wins when no defenders exist. That's stupid. Zero garrison units? On the other hand I don't know any way to handle this otherwise.

Edited by Allen Ward, 18 December 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

MWHawke, on 18 December 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

What type of balance in CW are you talking about? Do you know why base rush is needed as a tactic??!?

It is ridiculous to pit a team of similar capability, where one defends and one assaults a base with turrets and expect a BRAWL to ensue!!! The assaulting Mechs would be wiped out!!! The base carries God knows how many extra turrets with 2 LARGE LASERS!!! Added to that, incoming dropships get to pelt assaulting Mechs with more LARGE LASERS!!!

And you expect assaulting Mechs to brawl in that condition??!?

Wow.. just.. wow..

This is the other side of the coin, turrets and drop ship support on two teams that are even, while its an attempt to stop the dull crappy base rushes, and attacking will be much harder and most planets won't fall, most games will at least have combat in them, and then they can balance from there, though I do think its mostly the maps and the design of them thats at fault, the current way is so flawed i'm surprised it even made it out of alpha stage

[Dagadegatto]

Allen Ward, on 18 December 2014 - 11:47 AM, said:

...
What bugs me most is the easy wins when no defenders exist. That's stupid. Zero garrison units? On the other hand I don't know any way to handle this otherwise.

AI Mechs?

[pwnface]

I think the entire attack/defense mechanic is far too confusing and unnatural.

This is how they should simplify the system:

The faction with less than 50% control of the planet should always be attacking.
The faction with more than 50% control of the planet should always be defending.

Attacking a planet that has no defenders (after 10 minute wait) gives the attackers 1% control.
Defending a planet that has no attackers (after a 10 minute wait) gives the defenders 1% control.

Winning an attack against live opponents gives 5% control of planet to attacking team.
Defending an attack against live opponents gives 5% control of planet to defending team.

Simple system that is EASY for people to understand and allows a smaller faction to defend against a larger attacking force if they actually win their defense matches. Real matches against live opponents should be weighted more heavily than no attacker/defender freebie wins. Attackers and defenders should also be able to make progress on a planet if the opposing faction doesn't want to defend or continue attacking a planet.

[Kirkland Langue]

On the issue of "Counterattack vs Defend vs Attack vs Hold" - PGI shouldn't have offered us buttons that say "attack" or "defend" - it should simply have been a matter of choosing a planet to participate on, and then getting a "mission to hold a base" or a "mission to capture a base" - you don't know which it will be until you get the mission.

As it is, many players have false expectations based simply upon how those buttons are labeled.

[Gas Guzzler]

pwnface, on 18 December 2014 - 11:51 AM, said:

I think the entire attack/defense mechanic is far too confusing and unnatural.

This is how they should simplify the system:

The faction with less than 50% control of the planet should always be attacking.
The faction with more than 50% control of the planet should always be defending.

Attacking a planet that has no defenders (after 10 minute wait) gives the attackers 1% control.
Defending a planet that has no attackers (after a 10 minute wait) gives the defenders 1% control.

Winning an attack against live opponents gives 5% control of planet to attacking team.
Defending an attack against live opponents gives 5% control of planet to defending team.

Simple system that is EASY for people to understand and allows a smaller faction to defend against a larger attacking force if they actually win their defense matches. Real matches against live opponents should be weighted more heavily than no attacker/defender freebie wins. Attackers and defenders should also be able to make progress on a planet if the opposing faction doesn't want to defend or continue attacking a planet.

The only problem is, it would take at minimum 8 hours and 20 minutes to flip a planet with no defenders, which makes not defending a really good defense.

[Ridir Semii]

Reno Blade, on 18 December 2014 - 07:28 AM, said:

I'm not sure what you mean.
If you mean the old 32bit system:
The launcher has the option to "force 32bit" or autoselect depending on CPU/OS type, if you look at the picture in the 64bit-announcement-post:
http://mwomercs.com/...bit-mwo-client/

(image can't be quoted or linked...)

https://static.mwome...6f4e17e15088f97
link to image for ya

[Vlaitor]

I don't post often but this is a very good patch. Be proud of yourself guys, lots of works, lots of goodies.
Thanks again PGI.

[Dagadegatto]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 December 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

The only problem is, it would take at minimum 8 hours and 20 minutes to flip a planet with no defenders, which makes not defending a really good defense.

I don't see this as a problem. It would mean that people would concentrate on planets with defenders on them. And a populated match is what we all want...

[Gas Guzzler]

Dagadegatto, on 18 December 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

I don't see this as a problem. It would mean that people would concentrate on planets with defenders on them. And a populated match is what we all want...

Yeah, it would be nice if it worked out like that, but then if you spend a couple hours trying to take a planet and then all of a sudden you can't effectively attack it any more because the defenders decide to leave, that would be a bummer, and you would have effectively wasted the past 2 hours. Defenders could also say "Hey, if we all leave, then they won't be able to get enough wins before the ceasefire" which I think is also something we don't want.

[R E T I]

OK so 2 1/2 hrs behind schedule and up to 3 hrs to do patch. Looks like all my prime playing time will be gone before its done. I am happy you are doing it but a little saddened by the delay. Boy them new gifts sure are looking tempting. Once again the wife tells me I need to get out more often lol. Any idea on patch start time?

[Prussian Havoc]

Voivode, on 18 December 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

While I disagree that attackers "know" what they'll get (they totally don't) I do agree that they need an indication of what you'll be doing as far as attack/defend/counterattack up front so you can build the proper drop deck for it.

This just can't be allowed to happen.

A Dropship/Jumpship can't possibly contain all my 105 Mechs just waiting for me to cherry pick a specific Drop Deck before battling for a given world... and I am just one MechWarrior among the dozen on my team. We are talking 800-1000 Mechs for an average Team... all supposedly waiting up in the Dropship on the off chance they might be needed.

Let us not totally invalidate the fabric of a BattleTech-themed Attack/Defense.

The time for crafting a drop deck is just as they have it now. I can either "Accept Risk" and build as heavy and slow a Meta Lance for a defense. Or I could go fast medium with Lasers for Offensive strikes on the generator. But this decision and deck must be crafted in advance... not mere seconds before a drop.

And in all reality, local Holding Actions while on Attack and Counterattacks while on Defense are NOT always known nor at the discretion of the Warrior in Combat. Let High Command worry about details of an Operational and Strategic nature.

[Rhialto]

Wish they had time to correct a single bug out the the few I listed about 3D. In the lot, there must be one who does not require anymore time than any of the others that will be fixed within this incoming patch.

I'm just tired of waiting, it's always pushed back... but last update is that it should be looked at after CW so there is still hope. About time because after they pushed 3D, FWIK, they never looked at it again to fix problems that were reported in the following hours/days.

[James Montana]

I don't think the rushing aspect may be adequately addressed by adding additional generators. Maybe introducing a victory condition where the attackers also had to defeat a certain percentage of the defending forces would promote more brawling. After all, in order to occupy a planet you must also pacify the conventional armed resistance. Just a thought.

[R E T I]

Maybe next time just say their will be a patch we are just not sure when it will be. Ya kinda got everybody excited and know 4 hrs later still nothing. Guess i will have to play tomorrow as the patch and i am sure a long download will be eating up ll my playing time. But still Love what your doing just a little disappointed.

[AztecD]

any ETA on this patch? even if its on another day its all good just talk to us

[ImperialCrusader]

Night Fury76, on 17 December 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

RIP IGP may you never hold back PGI again

IGP is dead according to wikipedia

[Slater01]

AztecD, on 18 December 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

any ETA on this patch? even if its on another day its all good just talk to us

They must be aiming to get it before the end of day here. I'm guessing in another 3 hours or so they'll run the patch. And then get piss drunk tomorrow, and then we'll see who or how many staff lost there job come next year (from the Xmas party not the hard work).

[NullZeal]

AztecD, on 18 December 2014 - 01:55 PM, said:

any ETA on this patch? even if its on another day its all good just talk to us

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