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Ultimate Mech Discussion Thread

BattleMech Balance

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#3641 Yoseful Mallad

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:18 AM

View PostOdanan, on 13 May 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:


I don't think they will add another IS 100 tonner so soon (for game design reasons that if people are not capable to figure out by themselves, I will not spend my time trying to explain).

It is more likely they add another 80 tonner instead. There are plenty of options: Zeus, Victor, Hatamoto-Chi, and even the Charger. Cyclops (90 tons) is also a good candidate for #6 assault.

About the #20 mech, I see the Banshee incoming.
what I mean is after mech #20 the next 5 mechs could be light, medium, heavy, assault (another 100 tonner) and than another light. We still have the Blackjack, Orion and Flea coming before whatever mech #20 is that will be released. And the next 5 mechs after #20 should be ready to go. By the time we get that next Assault mech...There should be no issues on why we could not have another 100 ton IS mech fonw the line. On top of that... We will already be well into getting the Clans and their tech. The IS may need another 100 ton mech by then anyway lol

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 13 May 2013 - 08:25 AM.


#3642 Odanan

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:42 AM

Another 100 tonner won't save IS from the Clans. ;)

(even if it is a Devastator)

#3643 Sennin

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:34 AM

Unless of course that 100 tonner is a Thunder Hawk or a Fafnir. ;)

#3644 Yoseful Mallad

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 09:57 AM

View PostOdanan, on 13 May 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Another 100 tonner won't save IS from the Clans. ;)

(even if it is a Devastator)
but it won't hurt the IS any to have another 100 ton mech either :wacko:

#3645 Butane9000

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 10:28 AM

View PostOdanan, on 13 May 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Another 100 tonner won't save IS from the Clans. ;)

(even if it is a Devastator)


I dunno this guy NotEnoughDakkaDakka made this thread about IS v Clan mechs in MWO and it's a pretty good analysis.

SUPER EDIT!: I was just in a match with a member of PGI/IGP and asked about Battlemech #20. They replied "the 21st or 22nd I believe"

So huzzah! Soon©

Edited by Butane9000, 13 May 2013 - 11:18 AM.


#3646 Colddawg

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 12:06 PM

View PostSennin, on 13 May 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Unless of course that 100 tonner is a Thunder Hawk or a Fafnir. :D


(epic facepalm)
Seriously? Fafnir?
(3063)

Also, I highly doubt they would encourage gauss boating with a 'Mech designed around doing such a thing.

Edited by Colddawg, 13 May 2013 - 12:07 PM.


#3647 Belorion

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 02:54 PM

View PostSennin, on 13 May 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Unless of course that 100 tonner is a Thunder Hawk or a Fafnir. :D


Neither meet the requirements for inclusion at this time.

Thunder Hawk only one variant at this point, and Fafnir doesn't have any.

List of possible chassis: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2339581

#3648 Sennin

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:01 PM

View PostColddawg, on 13 May 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:


(epic facepalm)
Seriously? Fafnir?
(3063)

Also, I highly doubt they would encourage gauss boating with a 'Mech designed around doing such a thing.


I know what year it is from, I was joking in my suggestion of the Fafnir and Thunder Hawk but since you want to to go there...Have you thought how such a thing would actually suffer implementation in this game and that at some point this scenario will come to pass regardless? After 3055 there is a dozen Inner Sphere Assault 'Mechs released to combat the Clans and other factions that mount multiple Gauss Rifles for the simple fact it is the most effective weapon available. I really wouldn't mind seeing any of them implemented either because most use XL engines to achieve their configuration and Gauss Rifles in MWO are so frail they are a serious risk to run in many circumstances. A great example of this would be the Devastator, an amazing Battlemech which does fit the timeline and would more than likely suffer the same fate of the Awesome as a walking wall with the added detriment of explosive weaponry.

#3649 Sennin

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 03:14 PM

View PostBelorion, on 13 May 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:


Neither meet the requirements for inclusion at this time.

Thunder Hawk only one variant at this point, and Fafnir doesn't have any.

List of possible chassis: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2339581


As I have predicted in countless pages past of this thread I remain steadfast that the next assault will more than likely be the Banshee. Not everything I say here needs to be serious, does it? :D

#3650 Belorion

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 04:05 PM

View PostSennin, on 13 May 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:


As I have predicted in countless pages past of this thread I remain steadfast that the next assault will more than likely be the Banshee. Not everything I say here needs to be serious, does it? ;)


Nope not at all, its my personal belief that people should have a fair dose of humor everyday. Sometimes forums don't convey the humor though :D

At first I didn't like the idea of the Banshee next, but I am warming up to the idea.

#3651 Odanan

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostButane9000, on 13 May 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

SUPER EDIT!: I was just in a match with a member of PGI/IGP and asked about Battlemech #20. They replied "the 21st or 22nd I believe"

So huzzah! Soon©


That's good news! 22 is next week's Wednesday.

#3652 SgtMagor

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 05:24 PM

I'm to old to have any patience, really looking forward to whatever assault makes the cut Banshee or Banshee, um Devastator :D

#3653 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 06:01 PM

View PostYoseful Mallad, on 13 May 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

but it won't hurt the IS any to have another 100 ton mech either :D

Disagree.

We really don't need anything else promoting more Weight Creep in the matches. Another 100 tonner would just exacerbate the trend. (At least until weight matching returns)

The removal of RnR (broken or not) already largely nerfed the whole "Role" Warfare concept (the Role of Medium Mechs being affordable Jack of All Trades... affordability doesn't exactly matter now, does it?), I can't be the only one to notice the return of the "Bloat" with matches being Highlander/Stalker/Atlas predominant. A more mobile 80 Tonner, like the Victor, (as long as it has smaller hit boxes than the *%((&%!!!! Awesome), while still an Assault, might actually add a little diversity to the Assault category, and MAYBE the matches (probably not though, since pretty much every mechwarrior multiplayer has devolved to constant Poptarting, why should MWO be any different?)

#3654 Maverick01

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Posted 13 May 2013 - 08:37 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 13 May 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

The removal of RnR (broken or not) already largely nerfed the whole "Role" Warfare concept (the Role of Medium Mechs being affordable Jack of All Trades... affordability doesn't exactly matter now, does it?), I can't be the only one to notice the return of the "Bloat" with matches being Highlander/Stalker/Atlas predominant.


I hope they eventually bring back repair and rearm with the implementation of community warfare. This would also reinforce the idea of role warfare. Otherwise, what's the point of an economy? I'm hoping for the Zeus!

Edited by Maverick01, 13 May 2013 - 08:42 PM.


#3655 Adridos

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 03:53 AM

View PostMaverick01, on 13 May 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:

I hope they eventually bring back repair and rearm with the implementation of community warfare. This would also reinforce the idea of role warfare. Otherwise, what's the point of an economy? I'm hoping for the Zeus!


Repair and rearm doesn't help with the issue of mediums at all.

They need weight matching and broken system like that (the list of ways to go around it were endless: go premade - free pugstomps and infinite money, people who played for long and have huge accounts don't give any ***** about it, either) which basically gimps a bunch of people by forcing some to do the no repair zombie nonsense, nerfing ammo-based mechs and so on...

Weight matching is much superior of an option or some other system, but as far as R&R goes, it only has a place in gaming the system (viz. WoW rest buff switched from tired debuff... Blizzard changed 2 words and achieved miracles with it) and say at the end of the match something along the lines of: "Total earnings after you repaired and rearmed your mech." Nothing else needed, really.

#3656 Yoseful Mallad

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:25 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 13 May 2013 - 06:01 PM, said:

Disagree.

We really don't need anything else promoting more Weight Creep in the matches. Another 100 tonner would just exacerbate the trend. (At least until weight matching returns)

The removal of RnR (broken or not) already largely nerfed the whole "Role" Warfare concept (the Role of Medium Mechs being affordable Jack of All Trades... affordability doesn't exactly matter now, does it?), I can't be the only one to notice the return of the "Bloat" with matches being Highlander/Stalker/Atlas predominant. A more mobile 80 Tonner, like the Victor, (as long as it has smaller hit boxes than the *%((&%!!!! Awesome), while still an Assault, might actually add a little diversity to the Assault category, and MAYBE the matches (probably not though, since pretty much every mechwarrior multiplayer has devolved to constant Poptarting, why should MWO be any different?)
and again... I think you are misunderstanding me. We have the Blackjack this month, the Orion next month and the Flea following that. That leaves mech #20 (probably the Banshee) for an August release. If we don't have a proper working matchmaking system or weight class match system by that time with CW following in September, we have bigger problems.

Following Mech #20 in August we still have at least 5 more IS Mechs ready to go. With IS mech #21 (probably another light or medium) to be released in September along with CW. When we finally get around to another Assault mech (like I said... Probably another 100 ton Mech) it will most likely be around December when that happens. And I'll say it again and with more passion this time.

IF by December we don't have a proper working matchmaking system or weight class match system, getting a second 100 ton mech is by far not going to hurt the game much as by that time the game will have far greater issues to worry about than a new 100 ton mech lol.

I'm also going to add that I understand your point on a lighter more functional Assault mech like the Victor. Lets not forget.. While not exactly an Assault, the 75 ton Orion is no push over and will easily put up a fight with these larger Assault mechs. The Orion is outfitted like an Assault as is lol. And I personally would take an Orion over a Victor any day.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 14 May 2013 - 04:31 AM.


#3657 Thontor

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 04:47 AM

View PostYoseful Mallad, on 14 May 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

and again... I think you are misunderstanding me. We have the Blackjack this month, the Orion next month and the Flea following that. That leaves mech #20 (probably the Banshee) for an August release.
Spoiler


Small correction.


According to Bryan Ekman, here is the order with the delay on the Flea:

May: Blackjack
June: Orion
July: Unannounced assault
August: Flea

Edited by Thontor, 14 May 2013 - 04:48 AM.


#3658 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:21 AM

View PostYoseful Mallad, on 14 May 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

and again... I think you are misunderstanding me. We have the Blackjack this month, the Orion next month and the Flea following that. That leaves mech #20 (probably the Banshee) for an August release. If we don't have a proper working matchmaking system or weight class match system by that time with CW following in September, we have bigger problems.

Following Mech #20 in August we still have at least 5 more IS Mechs ready to go. With IS mech #21 (probably another light or medium) to be released in September along with CW. When we finally get around to another Assault mech (like I said... Probably another 100 ton Mech) it will most likely be around December when that happens. And I'll say it again and with more passion this time.

IF by December we don't have a proper working matchmaking system or weight class match system, getting a second 100 ton mech is by far not going to hurt the game much as by that time the game will have far greater issues to worry about than a new 100 ton mech lol.

I'm also going to add that I understand your point on a lighter more functional Assault mech like the Victor. Lets not forget.. While not exactly an Assault, the 75 ton Orion is no push over and will easily put up a fight with these larger Assault mechs. The Orion is outfitted like an Assault as is lol. And I personally would take an Orion over a Victor any day.



No, I understood you fine. And this game has plenty of other designs to delve without getting more top heavy. Put out more 100 tonners, more 100 tonners will be in every drop, even if with a weight matching system they have to wait and wait to get a drop (and QQ on the forums about it). Hence, since people will inevitably gravitate to Assaults, lets not salt the game with a dozen 100 tonners.

(At least not yet. Would much rather see the Cyclops, Zeus, Victor, Mauler, etc than another 100 tonner, ESPECIALLY since at this time pretty much ALL the 100 Tonners beside the Atlas are pretty unit or faction specific (King Crab is ComStar, Imp, Annihilator and Marauder II (Also unseen, but just sayin) are Dragoons only), Devastators are Davion Prototypes, and most of the rest (Thunderhawk, Pillager, etc) are years in the future.)

The last thing this game needs is to get the same power creep that the previous titles had, which was a rush to Assault Mech. (well that and more jumpers until they find a way to mitigate Poptarting... it's usually beatable... just bloody boring playing match after match with DDC. Hex Stalker. PopTart).

Weight matching, unless we end up with some drop formats that also LIMIT weight, will only be a partial fix.

Also, if we get BOTH the Orion AND the Victor? I hope you do choose the Orion... will make hunting you with my Victor (similar hardpoints, ability to carry better armor, AND the mobility boost of jumping) that much more fun!

#3659 Colddawg

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:46 AM

I know how much we all love discussing what #20 will be, but what about the long term? How many 'Mechs are we going to see? Does anyone have any hopes that they include all of our favorites since they plan to release about 2 a month (probably 1 IS and 1 clan with a hero 'Mech as well)? Looking at this game in the long term, and ASSUMING they keep their pace of 1 a month by this time next year we'll have another 12 IS 'Mechs and possibly up to 8 clan designs. A year after that, again assuming that they can focus more on design and don't need to pay as much attention to the game errors and balancing, we could see an addition 20 IS chassis and 16+ clan 'Mechs.

Meaning that by this time in 2015 there could be a total of 42 IS designs and 32 or so clan designs in the game. By late 2014 we should have more 'Mechs, at least designed, than MW4 Mercs.

#3660 Butane9000

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 07:49 AM

View PostMaverick01, on 13 May 2013 - 08:37 PM, said:


I hope they eventually bring back repair and rearm with the implementation of community warfare. This would also reinforce the idea of role warfare. Otherwise, what's the point of an economy? I'm hoping for the Zeus!


Last I heard someone said they officially killed off any chances of R&R.

View PostThontor, on 14 May 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Small correction.


According to Bryan Ekman, here is the order with the delay on the Flea:

May: Blackjack
June: Orion
July: Unannounced assault
August: Flea


Makes sense considering they want to give themselves as much time to properly implement MASC and fix the engine speed limitations as possible.

View PostColddawg, on 14 May 2013 - 06:46 AM, said:

I know how much we all love discussing what #20 will be, but what about the long term? How many 'Mechs are we going to see? Does anyone have any hopes that they include all of our favorites since they plan to release about 2 a month (probably 1 IS and 1 clan with a hero 'Mech as well)? Looking at this game in the long term, and ASSUMING they keep their pace of 1 a month by this time next year we'll have another 12 IS 'Mechs and possibly up to 8 clan designs. A year after that, again assuming that they can focus more on design and don't need to pay as much attention to the game errors and balancing, we could see an addition 20 IS chassis and 16+ clan 'Mechs.

Meaning that by this time in 2015 there could be a total of 42 IS designs and 32 or so clan designs in the game. By late 2014 we should have more 'Mechs, at least designed, than MW4 Mercs.


In the long term? Well PGI said they are aiming for 32 IS mechs and 16 Clan Omnimechs. Now the IIC variants will eventually make it into the game and shoot that clan number up to around 20-24 depending on if they add more IIC chassis. As of right now the only IIC chassis announced are the Jenner, Commando, Hunchback, Orion and Highlander.

The other thing to take into consideration is the uneven distribution of chassis within the 4 weight classes. PGI also stated they might not evenly distribute them (meaning instead of 8L, 8M, 8H and 8A) we could see (10L, 10M, 7H and 5A) or some goofy number.

Things not in game we could see? (based on 3 time wise variants between 3050-3061)
Lights
Mercury
Thorn
Mongoose
Firefly
Hermes
Hussar
Javelin
Urbanmech
Firestarter
Panther/Wolfhound (possibly)
Mediums
Assassin
Clint (Possible clan IIC variant)
Hermes II
Sentinel
Vulcan
Whitworth
Hatchetman (unlikely due to it using melee as a large part of it's armament)
Vindicator
Wyvern
Crab
Hoplite
Kintaro
Heavy
Champion
Grand Dragon (unlikely due to us already having the Dragon)
Lancelot
Quickdraw
Exterminator
Grasshopper
Guillotine (possible clan IIC version)
Black Knight
Assault
Charger
Hatamoto-Chi
Thug
Victor
Zeus
Katana/Crockett
Shogun
Cyclops
Banshee
Annihilator
Imp
King Crab

That's everything with 3 or more timeline variants between 2250-3061. Which means we could see some of them in the future (for those that don't have the variants currently).

So speculate away!

Edited by Butane9000, 14 May 2013 - 07:51 AM.






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