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Grinding ... It Is Time To Update The Xp System Please


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#61 Logan Hawke

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 08:21 AM

On paper the grind in MWO isn't that bad.

In practice it's worse than WoT and I've had a number of friends from there that I introduced to the game quit after a month at best. The difference is, while it's hard to get those top teir tanks, you can amass a large stable of lower tier tanks in a week or two and have tons of fun with them since they're competitive in their bracket. That variety lets you have the patience to grind up towards those bigger tanks. Sure, when you have a large stable of mechs already the grind is not too bad. For new players though it's godawful.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 22 December 2014 - 08:22 AM.


#62 DaZur

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:01 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 22 December 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Grinding= Playing MW:O

If playing the game is not fun its time to take a break.

Joseph... You and I know this but for some it's a difficult concept to grasp.

Honestly I wish I could understand where the disconnect happens... I mean I realize the grind is tedious and all but like you I simply accept it as part of the journey.

That said... When I find myself longing for something that I neither have the patience nor the inclination to wait for, I simply open my wallet and buy the damn thing.

Clearly I'm not connecting dots properly or something... ^_^

#63 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:07 AM

View PostDaZur, on 22 December 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Joseph... You and I know this but for some it's a difficult concept to grasp.

Honestly I wish I could understand where the disconnect happens... I mean I realize the grind is tedious and all but like you I simply accept it as part of the journey.

That said... When I find myself longing for something that I neither have the patience nor the inclination to wait for, I simply open my wallet and buy the damn thing.

Clearly I'm not connecting dots properly or something... ^_^

You seem to have connected them pretty well from where I'm sitting.

BattleTech is about constant warfare at some level or another be it boarder wars or all out interstellar war. So the grind (fighting) is the only thing that really matters. I played TT as the GM for the better part of 28 years. I literally gain NOTHING for those 3 decades, Unless the player controlling the the command gave my (in unit) characters equipment. I was almost always the loser, and I had a pretty damn good time playing the OpFor.

#64 Logan Hawke

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:19 AM

View PostDaZur, on 22 December 2014 - 10:01 AM, said:

Joseph... You and I know this but for some it's a difficult concept to grasp.

Honestly I wish I could understand where the disconnect happens... I mean I realize the grind is tedious and all but like you I simply accept it as part of the journey.

That said... When I find myself longing for something that I neither have the patience nor the inclination to wait for, I simply open my wallet and buy the damn thing.

Clearly I'm not connecting dots properly or something... ^_^




variety


[ vəˈrīətē ]


NOUN

noun: variety




  • the quality or state of being different or diverse; the absence of uniformity, sameness, or monotony:
    "it's the variety that makes my job so enjoyable"
    synonyms:variation· diversification · heterogeneity · multifariousness · choice difference
This is why the grind in MWO sucks. It has no variety. New players are going to be playing the same mech chassis trio for at the absolute least a couple weeks to a month or more with no other options (let's be honest, trial mechs aren't options because you're not earning XP rewards nor do they allow new players to tinker which is a major sticking point for the game) and that does not encourage anyone to continue playing.



For long time players the grind is fine because we have plenty of variety and options.

For new players it severely inhibits retention. You know things are bad when WoT offers more than 40 times the variety (All tier one and two tanks and a good number of teir threes at least can be obtained by the average player in this timeframe) for a new player within the space of a couple weeks than MWO.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 22 December 2014 - 10:22 AM.


#65 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:25 AM

View PostLogan Hawke, on 22 December 2014 - 10:19 AM, said:




variety


[ vəˈrīətē ]


NOUN

noun: variety


  • the quality or state of being different or diverse; the absence of uniformity, sameness, or monotony:
    [color=#737373]"it's the variety that makes my job so enjoyable"[/color]
    [color=#737373]synonyms: [/color][color=#1020d0]diversity[/color][color=#737373] · [/color][color=#1020d0]variation[/color][color=#737373] · diversification · [/color][color=#1020d0]heterogeneity[/color][color=#737373] · [/color]
    multifariousness · [color=#1020d0]change[/color] · [color=#1020d0]choice[/color] · [color=#1020d0]difference[/color]

    This is why the grind in MWO sucks. It has no variety. New players are going to be playing the same mech for at the absolute least a couple weeks to a month or more with no other options (let's be honest, trial mechs aren't options because you're not earning XP rewards nor do they allow new players to tinker which is a major sticking point for the game) and that does not encourage anyone to continue playing.

    For long time players the grind is fine because we have plenty of variety and options.

    For new players it severely inhibits retention. You know things are bad when WoT offers 40 times the variety (All tier one and two tanks and a good number of teir threes at least can be obtained by the average player in this timeframe) for a new player within the space of a couple weeks than MWO.

So you blame the limited use of player tactics as the reason we need more EXP? Players will use the tactics that get them success most often, the redundancy of that gets boring. When In Closed Beta, The Law was winning 80ish% of its battles it was because we were effective. We made more money and won more fights than we do now. And it was boring making 300+ more XP per match as it is now.

But the banter made it enjoyable.

#66 Logan Hawke

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:34 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 22 December 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

So you blame the limited use of player tactics as the reason we need more EXP? Players will use the tactics that get them success most often, the redundancy of that gets boring. When In Closed Beta, The Law was winning 80ish% of its battles it was because we were effective. We made more money and won more fights than we do now. And it was boring making 300+ more XP per match as it is now.

But the banter made it enjoyable.


How in the world did you get tactics out of what I said? Variety in tools, abilities, loadouts, options is what keeps people interested and playing games, not their personal playstyle. There are not many people in any age group that would be content to just play the same class/chassis/tank analogue over and over again.

In MMORPGs people have alts and a massive area to explore
In RPGs people make multiple characters, different weapons and powers, and different story choices
In CoD people have a good amount of weapons options right off the bat and a ton of maps
In strategy games you have a nice variety of units to pick from and a nice variety of campaigns, maps, etc
In WoT you have... butt-tons of tanks
In War Thunder you have the same thing (Butt-tons of tanks, this time with planes for even more variety)
In pretty much any long lasting game variety is what makes it last.

Remember Titanfall? That game was a ghost town more or less in a few months, despite its very tight and fun gameplay, because it had no variety to encourage retention. People burned out quick.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 22 December 2014 - 10:36 AM.


#67 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:44 AM

View PostLogan Hawke, on 22 December 2014 - 10:34 AM, said:

People burned out quick.
Some faster than others. I been here since Closed. Played hard for months. new stuff gets me to play for a day or 5 then it becomes the same non important fight for nothing really.

CW has to much complications in the game mechanics right now and frustrates my limited nerves from working way to many days/hours. Heck I can't even look at Dragon Age Inquisition cause I am on my 5th character start and repeating the same dialog is killing me! And I love Dragon Age! :unsure:

No amount of EXP increase can offset boredom!

#68 Logan Hawke

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:50 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 22 December 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

Some faster than others. I been here since Closed. Played hard for months. new stuff gets me to play for a day or 5 then it becomes the same non important fight for nothing really.

CW has to much complications in the game mechanics right now and frustrates my limited nerves from working way to many days/hours. Heck I can't even look at Dragon Age Inquisition cause I am on my 5th character start and repeating the same dialog is killing me! And I love Dragon Age! :unsure:

No amount of EXP increase can offset boredom!


It's not really EXP so much as Cbills, or the whole 'needing to level three mechs' thing. People need to be able to build a stable with some good variety in the first month so they have options for when they start to get bored on one chassis. It increases retention at the very least, gets the players to invest more of themselves into the game, and can quite often lead to the situation I'm in where you have the variety to continue playing relatively indefinitely without burning out for good. Sure, I take breaks here and there, but I can always come back and try something different for a breath of fresh air next time I log on.

It might not keep a player forever but it increases retention time by a large margin and increases the chance they buy into the game.

Edited by Logan Hawke, 22 December 2014 - 10:50 AM.


#69 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 10:52 AM

View PostLogan Hawke, on 22 December 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:


It's not really EXP so much as Cbills, or the whole 'needing to level three mechs' thing. People need to be able to build a stable with some good variety in the first month so they have options for when they start to get bored on one chassis. It increases retention at the very least, gets the players to invest more of themselves into the game, and can quite often lead to the situation I'm in where you have the variety to continue playing relatively indefinitely without burning out for good. Sure, I take breaks here and there, but I can always come back and try something different for a breath of fresh air next time I log on.

It might not keep a player forever but it increases retention time by a large margin and increases the chance they buy into the game.

C-Bills are another discussion you and I will not agree on. But needing to elite 3 chassis so I can master one is as stupid as it sounds.

#70 Gaius Cavadus

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 11:16 AM

As a new player I don't mind the grind on mechs I actually like. What irritates me is that I have to grind two others just get back to the one I actually care about.

#71 DaZur

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Posted 22 December 2014 - 11:30 AM

View PostCavadus, on 22 December 2014 - 11:16 AM, said:

As a new player I don't mind the grind on mechs I actually like. What irritates me is that I have to grind two others just get back to the one I actually care about.

I don't think you will find anyone around here who will disagree with your premise... It's an arbitrary and unimaginative progression mechanic at best.





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