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Grinding ... It Is Time To Update The Xp System Please


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#1 Mawai

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:37 AM

Hi All,

Grinding in MWO is something near and dear to everyone's heart ... at least if they have played this game for any length of time.

Grinding is boring and slow but required to obtain the c-bills needed for modules, modifications, and mechs.

Slow grinding encourages folks to spend money on premium time and hero mechs to reduce the grind a bit.

HOWEVER, if the grind is overwhelmingly boring (as it can be in MWO) then what happens? Folks don't spend money ... they quit ... maybe playing the occasional match for old times sake but not spending any money ... thus no revenue to PGI. This is because the grind is not interesting. There is no thinking required, nothing to look forward to except a few more XP and cbills at the end of the match ... aiming to unlock the same old abilities that are available on every single mech.

I am playing at the moment for the stocking stuffers ... I have lots of mastered mechs that I pull out from time to time for the fun of it ... Jenner-D, Catapult-J and Jager 6-S are amoung my favourites. But for the grind of the tournament and to pull in cbills ... I find that earning extra meaningless xp on one of mastered mechs is pretty useless ... at the moment I have pulled out my Thunderbolts and am working on mastering them as something to do while grinding.

BUT ... it is boring ... same old skills ... the only challenge is trying to find a build that works for me.

So ... for player retention and to likely increase revenues ... I think it is time that PGI looks at updating the closed beta place holder skills and xp system with something that is:

1) Interesting ... requires some thought and some optimization
2) Create general sets of skill trees and limit the number of skills that can be selected by a player for each mech variant at each level
3) Allow different skill selections for each mech variant so that the player can specialize the skills to the role they want a variant to use (this actually justifies and motivates the requirement of 3 variants since they can all be skilled differently).

4) Make sure every skill does something ... the 2nd tier "convergence" skill hasn't done ANYTHING since closed beta or shortly after ... it is just an xp sink.

Anyway, folks have been dis-satisfied with the skills system since closed beta ... maybe it is finally time to look at scheduling some resources for an update.

#2 Pjwned

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:52 AM

I've complained at length about the crappy grind in this game, and the mech tree in particular is the worst aspect of it by far. Literally every other part of the grind wouldn't be as bad if you weren't forced to grind unwanted variant mechs in order to get essential efficiencies unlocked, although that would still leave high costs for equipment and upgrades and modules as well as extremely slow GXP earning rates for unlocking said expensive modules.

#3 Levi Porphyrogenitus

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 08:57 AM

People, PGI included, have wanted a rework of the XP system for a very long time. That said, PGI is focused on the CW rollout, and will likely remain so for a while.

#4 cSand

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:26 AM

Maybe just play the game, and the points will come in

there is no grind

#5 hashinshin

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:29 AM

this is what happened to everyone I know.

Grind -> Grind -> Grind -> buy a mech I guess -> more grind -> quit.

When you buy a mech you find a week's worth of grinding thrown away just to buy the upgrades and weapons/etc. for that mech and then... back to grinding.

#6 Burktross

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:31 AM

View PostcSand, on 20 December 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

Maybe just play the game, and the points will come in

there is no grind

Then the game becomes boring after playing the same mechs over and over.

#7 Pjwned

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:31 AM

View PostcSand, on 20 December 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

Maybe just play the game, and the points will come in

there is no grind


Yep let's just see how fresh stock mechs perform in pug matches without needing to grind--

Oh, right.

#8 cSand

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:49 AM

Takes no time to master a mech if you don't suck

Even easier if you have premium time going


sorry fellas, truth hurts


I do agree it would be nice for the XP tree to be mixed up a little, or have some more options

#9 C E Dwyer

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:50 AM

no no no, its fine as is, all that needs to be changed is have the two second tier skills that are inactive changed for something useful

Edited by Cathy, 20 December 2014 - 09:53 AM.


#10 cSand

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:55 AM

View PostCathy, on 20 December 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

no no no, its fine as is, all that needs to be changed is have the two second tier skills that are inactive changed for something useful



Amen!


It would be cool to have a bunch of extra upgrades in each class but you can only choose a set amount, ie: 8 elite skills but you can still only choose to unlock 4, or 2 or 3 master skills but you can only have 1

#11 El Bandito

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:55 AM

View PostPjwned, on 20 December 2014 - 08:52 AM, said:

I've complained at length about the crappy grind in this game, and the mech tree in particular is the worst aspect of it by far. Literally every other part of the grind wouldn't be as bad if you weren't forced to grind unwanted variant mechs in order to get essential efficiencies unlocked, although that would still leave high costs for equipment and upgrades and modules as well as extremely slow GXP earning rates for unlocking said expensive modules.



THIS, times 10. The current skill tree really needs more work. It is uninspiring, unimaginative, and unfun.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 December 2014 - 10:07 AM.


#12 C E Dwyer

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:57 AM

View PostPjwned, on 20 December 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:


Yep let's just see how fresh stock mechs perform in pug matches without needing to grind--

Oh, right.


Nothing wrong with stock mechs out the box, you can kill with them, and do ok, did it plenty of times with assaults highlanders come to mind, didn't change a single thing until they paid for each update, in combat..

people need to stop putting the hand out asking for easy street and look at it as a challenge to conquer

#13 LordKnightFandragon

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 09:59 AM

Yeah, we should get paid like we do in CW.

Standard battles we deal 800dmg and get paid 80K...

CW you deal 600 dmg and get paid close to 200K.....

Ive made between 190-almost 300K in CW dealing between 600-1000dmg.

I wish pug Q saw that kind of payday just as standard. Yesterday I made like 240K in a CW loss after dealing 1000+dmg, while in a Skirmish pug loss, I deal 910 dmg and made like 70K....if im lucky.

#14 cSand

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 10:02 AM

View PostCathy, on 20 December 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:



people need to stop putting the hand out asking for easy street and look at it as a challenge to conquer



This right here.

People need easy mode, in fact you can see it all the "nerf this" or "change this" threads. People just want easy mode.
Standing up to a challenge is too much for a lot of gamers, hell, people in general.

I for one am glad PGI doesn't tend to cater to the lowest common denominator. In all areas of life, this is a bad decision

View PostLordKnightFandragon, on 20 December 2014 - 09:59 AM, said:

Yeah, we should get paid like we do in CW.

Standard battles we deal 800dmg and get paid 80K...

CW you deal 600 dmg and get paid close to 200K.....

Ive made between 190-almost 300K in CW dealing between 600-1000dmg.

I wish pug Q saw that kind of payday just as standard. Yesterday I made like 240K in a CW loss after dealing 1000+dmg, while in a Skirmish pug loss, I deal 910 dmg and made like 70K....if im lucky.



So in a match with 4x as many mechs, and probably 2-3 times as long, you earned more cbills?

You don't say!

#15 Alienized

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 10:03 AM

it would be much better if PGI would remove the fkin elo **** system.

its hardly playable when you try to skill up mediocre mechs with teams that have no fkin idea what its all about and you have to carry assault idiots that cant even aim or backup the team and end up doing 70 damage.

you cant carry it all with unskilled mechs.
but thats what is supposed to happen with that elo crap.

it makes this game unplayable at times.

#16 Pjwned

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 10:11 AM

View PostcSand, on 20 December 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Takes no time to master a mech if you don't suck

Even easier if you have premium time going


sorry fellas, truth hurts


I do agree it would be nice for the XP tree to be mixed up a little, or have some more options


Don't mind me moving these goalposts.

View PostCathy, on 20 December 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

no no no, its fine as is, all that needs to be changed is have the two second tier skills that are inactive changed for something useful


That does nothing to address the grind.

View PostCathy, on 20 December 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:


Nothing wrong with stock mechs out the box, you can kill with them, and do ok, did it plenty of times with assaults highlanders come to mind, didn't change a single thing until they paid for each update, in combat..

people need to stop putting the hand out asking for easy street and look at it as a challenge to conquer


You can struggle to do somewhat decently with a fresh stock mech against people with customized, elited mechs, or you can be on even ground (after a nice healthy dose of grind) with a far superior mech; that doesn't mean there's nothing wrong with fresh stock mechs.

Also, grind is not a challenge.

View PostcSand, on 20 December 2014 - 10:02 AM, said:



This right here.

People need easy mode, in fact you can see it all the "nerf this" or "change this" threads. People just want easy mode.
Standing up to a challenge is too much for a lot of gamers, hell, people in general.

I for one am glad PGI doesn't tend to cater to the lowest common denominator. In all areas of life, this is a bad decision


Excellent false equivalence there bub.

#17 InspectorG

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 11:21 AM

The grind isnt too bad.

Phantasy Star online required WEEKS to grind one character up to lvl 200. You often needed 3 teammates to help.

Thats WEEKS of the same 3 quests OVER AND OVER AND OVER....

But people did it for alts and for new time trial chars where they could maybe just have a stat diffrence between 800ATK and 805 ATK.

MWO aint bad.

SKILL TREE could be better though. Some skills do nothing. They should be expanded to give the mechs more performance based customization.

#18 lsp

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 11:22 AM

View PostcSand, on 20 December 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

Takes no time to master a mech if you don't suck

Even easier if you have premium time going


sorry fellas, truth hurts


I do agree it would be nice for the XP tree to be mixed up a little, or have some more options

It took me 3 days to master two Wolverines, and that was playing all day. Literally probably 16 hours each day, maybe less, I have no Premium time, and I did it all in pug games. The grind is painful, even more so since cbills have been nerfed. And I by no means "suck" although I'm not as good as I used to be. 2.30 kdr in the 7k.
EDIT
I have 19hours total for Wolverines, plus the time on my other mechs grinding cbills to buy them.

Edited by lsp, 20 December 2014 - 12:45 PM.


#19 Spawnsalot

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 11:25 AM

Inb4 Sandpit and Joseph Mallen arrive and tell everyone they're wrong because those two don't need to grind :D. But yes the grind at the moment can be charitably described as torturous if you're trying to but and skill up three variants of a chassis, the xp I don't mind so much because it gives me time to work up cash I need for upgrades and new mechs... sigh.

#20 LordBraxton

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Posted 20 December 2014 - 11:34 AM

The grind is terrible. People who think the grind is OK have just invested too many hours to see the truth.

Get real.

This is the kind of grind that turns casual players away minutes after the cadet bonus ends.





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