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Clans In Cw Are Too Op


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#1 qwerty

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 05:38 AM

i have been playing on average 6 day a week since closed beta minus a few holidays now this is getting to be a big joke i dropped into a few CW games tonight *(Had to drop against clans no other games) and was attacking /counter attacking.

now i know that clan tech is better in all aspects but some thing has to be done to balance the game when you get half your armor and possibly arm or torso even before you see your enemy
*(now i know i am going to get ah your a **** player and you should use blah blah and i know i am an average player i never said otherwise) but none the less clans are OP when they can hit you with a Large Laser at a greater distance that you can shoot LRM's hell med laser almost have as much range as IS LL and with the only advantage IS ever had was the honor that the clans had (not in this game anyways ) and greater numbers (again not in this game) the only advantage IS have is the speed of it's Lights and PGI nulled that by making you have to destroy all the Generators and for what i can see is only to benefit the clan players and remove the last advantage IS had

well that is my rant and is my opinion

Qwerty

Edited by qwerty, 21 December 2014 - 05:38 AM.


#2 w00tzor

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 05:42 AM

Lol.

#3 Strikeshadow

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 05:48 AM

It's true, when defending the clans have a huge advantage becasue of their greater range and speed. They run a bit hotter, but all they need to do is drop one laser and presto they are better mechs. When defending, they can fire and retreat to cool down (because they are so much faster). On CW they have a huge map to retreat. By the time you have closed to engage, they have a 50% armor advantage.

Or they could just run 6 uac 5s on a Dire and cooly shoot your butt off even if you do close to engage. Getting rocked by uac 5s at the rate of a machine gun is just sick.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 21 December 2014 - 05:52 AM.


#4 Tarogato

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 05:49 AM

Somebody didn't read the novels... or play the tabletop game.

Clans are supposed to be OP.

The FRR is getting it's as̩s kicked by Bears and that's the way it's supposed to be. If the Innersphere can start holding territory or pushing back the clans, then that means they've embraced their strengths better than the clans have. It's an uphill battle and nearly insurmountable challenge - I welcome it.

#5 Willard Phule

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 05:58 AM

I agree with the OP.

Current tactical doctrine states that an army on the defensive has an advantage over an army on the offensive.

PGI needs to fix that.

Not only do we need to give Paul free reign to just beat the living crap out of anything Clan until it can't be used anymore, we need to give Russ a magic wand so he can change the physics of warfare.

We HAVE to get this under control. The Clans MUST be nerfed until noone can use them again......after that, Hanse Davion can marry Melissa Steiner and we can have the 4th Succession War. Not to mention that the Lyran Commonwealth and the Federated Suns can become what they're SUPPOSED to be....the largest house in the Inner Sphere, the Federated Commonwealth.

After that, the Clans can come invade again....and everything will be back to canon. Unless, of course, we continue to have Elmer Fudd as our Ilkhan.....then we'll spend 80% of the time fighting each other, like we have been, instead of pushing toward Terra.

Edited by Willard Phule, 21 December 2014 - 06:01 AM.


#6 Strikeshadow

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:25 AM

All sacrasm aside, Willard has a point. The IS should always be on the defensive in this game mode - at least until they have stolen some clan tech and can mount clan equipment on their mechs or attack with a 3-1 numbers advantage. This game mode asks people to attack with equal numbers as the defenders and miltary scholars (or just the average joe) have known for 1000s of years that is a bad idea for the attackers unless they have a huge training or technology advantage.

Edited by Strikeshadow, 21 December 2014 - 06:26 AM.


#7 Strikeshadow

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:35 AM

View PostTarogato, on 21 December 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Somebody didn't read the novels... or play the tabletop game.

Clans are supposed to be OP.

The FRR is getting it's as̩s kicked by Bears and that's the way it's supposed to be. If the Innersphere can start holding territory or pushing back the clans, then that means they've embraced their strengths better than the clans have. It's an uphill battle and nearly insurmountable challenge - I welcome it.


So you haven't played in a single clan mech ever, right......

#8 Robin Wolf

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:42 AM

A few ago I've been part of a counterattack on New Bergen.

Mixed IS group vs. mixed Ghost Bear group.

We won by killing all of the Clan mechs.

It doesn't always go that way. This is a war where you meet the 12 men premade, a mixed group made up by small groups with or without lone wolves.

My idea so far, is that IS and Clans are fairly balanced.

#9 Badm0jo

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 06:59 AM

View PostTarogato, on 21 December 2014 - 05:49 AM, said:

Somebody didn't read the novels... or play the tabletop game.

Clans are supposed to be OP.

The FRR is getting it's as̩s kicked by Bears and that's the way it's supposed to be. If the Innersphere can start holding territory or pushing back the clans, then that means they've embraced their strengths better than the clans have. It's an uphill battle and nearly insurmountable challenge - I welcome it.


Oh so what you are saying is that IS should field a few more 'mechs per CW match to make it more fair, you know, to be more like the lore?

#10 Angel of Annihilation

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:01 AM

This is ridiculous.

Posted it elsewhere but let me post it again for those that missed it. Here is my record as a Clanner while pugging CW.

21 Total Drops
8 Wins, 13 Losses

As Defender:
9 total Drops
6 Wins, 3 Losses

Self explanatory. Defender always has the advantage and will almost always win in a PUG vs PUG. The 3 loses were against premades.


As Attacker:
12 Total Drops
2 Wins, 10 Losses

1 Win no defenders showed up so that doesn't count. The other was a fluke. PUG vs PUG and we managed to pull a very slim attrition win where we ended up killing all the enemy mechs while only ending the match with about 4 of our own left alive.

So honestly as a Clanner I could technically claim IS is way too OP in the defense as it is OBVIOUSLY almost impossible to win an attack against them, Pugging at least. So sorry you IS jokers need to get off your high horse and start realizing that it isn't just you who is suffering from poor design on PGIs part.

Also I don't see you mentioning anything about being part of a Unit so I take it your a Pugger right? That being the case, join a damn unit if you want to win. PGI even flat out said that solo players would have a hard time in CW as it was designed with Units in mind.

When dropping with my strongly coordinated unit, things change dramatically to the tune of 19 wins, 5 losses. This is simply because PUGs cannot beat a 12 man, not if they are taking the game even remotely serious. End of the day, if you PUG, expect to lose and lose alot. This is by design, a game feature if you will because Community Warfare is about "Community" so join a unit and quit crying.

#11 hashinshin

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:01 AM

View PostRobin Wolf, on 21 December 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

A few ago I've been part of a counterattack on New Bergen.

Mixed IS group vs. mixed Ghost Bear group.

We won by killing all of the Clan mechs.

It doesn't always go that way. This is a war where you meet the 12 men premade, a mixed group made up by small groups with or without lone wolves.

My idea so far, is that IS and Clans are fairly balanced.

You know the most factual way to decide anything is anecdotal evidence. Especially by a single report.

Edited by hashinshin, 21 December 2014 - 07:01 AM.


#12 Kdogg788

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 07:37 AM

I'm just going by the CW time lapse thread. Clans have taken quite a bit of territory in less than two weeks. Lore or 20 year old novels are just fluff. This is a competitive pvp game and the goal should be balance not just attack vs defense but clan vs is.

-k

#13 Robin Wolf

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 08:15 AM

View Posthashinshin, on 21 December 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

You know the most factual way to decide anything is anecdotal evidence. Especially by a single report.


I only posted about a fresh battle. And I did what every average Joe is doing here, about any subject.

Seriously, I won more battles than I lost to the clans. And when I lost, was more due to below than average IS teams than anything else.

#14 Kdogg788

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 08:32 AM

If the clan team decides to take all Timberwolves on the decisive push, there isn't much you can do against that.

-k

#15 Linkin

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:18 AM

Attacking, especially as a PUG has become more difficult. Most attacks for me are losses, defense, mainly wins.

I haven't tried IS in CW, but from much seat time in IS mechs prior to that, and now piloting Clan mechs, imo they are close to balanced now- definitely better than before. Pre quirkening, yes, I would say clans were more powerful. Post quirkening, no, much more balanced, though that does start to lead to power creep, but that's a different argument.

The only real big advantage Clan has is the XL engines. I would be in favor of heavier penalties for losing a torso (not same as IS, as that would ruin the uniqueness) but something like a huge speed/maneuverability decrease, a bigger heat penalty, auto shutting the mech down for X number of seconds, something like that. Perhaps even figuring a way to buff the IS XL engine somehow.

Weapons? IS ballistics- one projectile, Clans- burst, seems even. IS lasers- shorter burn times, Clan lasers- long burn times, seems even. IS missiles- grouped together, Clan missiles- more streaming, also seems a fair trade off. There are trade offs for each side, less damage but more focused, more damage/range but harder to focus. Main point circles back to the XL thing, mechs and weapons seems pretty even in general imo. Fix the XL and you will have pretty darn good balance in my experience.

I have seen the IS do some pretty good stuff in CW. Either way, enjoying it, wins, losses, and all :D

#16 R Razor

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:23 AM

Clan players only want lore as long as it gives them advantages...........lore is ignored when it's pointed out that they should not be fighting vs equal numbers and not focus firing targets.

#17 redlance

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:32 AM

View PostR Razor, on 21 December 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

and not focus firing targets.


what.

#18 Reitmeier

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:37 AM

So let me summarise the latest threads...
Buhu...Clan LaserVomit...Timberwolfs...Stormcrows,...
and
Buhu...IS Quirks, Thunderbolt 9S and 5SS, Dragon, faster Lights,...

Looks like a good balance for me. ;)

Edited by Reitmeier, 21 December 2014 - 09:37 AM.


#19 R Razor

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:39 AM

View Postredlance, on 21 December 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:


what.



In lore, clans found it dishonorable to fire on a target that a fellow clanner was fighting...........

#20 Linkin

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Posted 21 December 2014 - 09:42 AM

View PostR Razor, on 21 December 2014 - 09:23 AM, said:

Clan players only want lore as long as it gives them advantages...........lore is ignored when it's pointed out that they should not be fighting vs equal numbers and not focus firing targets.


10v12 would be pretty cool actually. Just remember, the IS has to also honor 1v1. Breaking that frees the Clan pilot from Zelbrigen. I'd be game.





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