1236 replies to this topic

[InspectorG]

Save the Summoner !!!!!!!

mobility quirks - should be mobile and quick for a heavy due to diminished damage output.

side torso omni pods with high energy mounts - Summoner is big and wide-ish. Losing arms sucks. And a Torso Gauss is kinda a powder keg.

leg structure boost - Summoner has ham hocks for legs. I do like nice thick legs...just not on my mech.

ERPPC quirks ala, Thud S9 for the Prime. Get that DPS and Cooling up

Wub quirks for the Laser variant, ala Thud %S/SS. Because: WUB. MAXIMUM WUB.

Generic Missile quirks for the Missile variant. (yuck but, hey...it needs them)

[Bishop Steiner]

Xythius, on 22 December 2014 - 06:19 AM, said:

I think the biggest thing I would like to see (aside from letting clan 'mechs swap for endo), would be quirks to the JJs. Something like a +10-15% to turn rate while jumping. And/or +10% to boost, maybe -15% heat gen too. Make those JJs actually mean something. The Summoner was a cool running, highly maneurveable 'mech. Neither of which are represented by the one we have in game. Extreme quirks for the PPC would be welcome as well, definitely on par with the ones the Tbolt recieved.

Next to the TBR, the SMN is my favorite 'mech from TT, but the 'mech I loved, isn't the one we have.

True, though one has to balance it with giving the Poptarters back an ezmode Pogostick. (Again, not an issue had PGI jsut fixed JJ reticle shake).

InspectorG, on 22 December 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Save the Summoner !!!!!!!

mobility quirks - should be mobile and quick for a heavy due to diminished damage output.

side torso omni pods with high energy mounts - Summoner is big and wide-ish. Losing arms sucks. And a Torso Gauss is kinda a powder keg.

leg structure boost - Summoner has ham hocks for legs. I do like nice thick legs...just not on my mech.

ERPPC quirks ala, Thud S9 for the Prime. Get that DPS and Cooling up

Wub quirks for the Laser variant, ala Thud %S/SS. Because: WUB. MAXIMUM WUB.

Generic Missile quirks for the Missile variant. (yuck but, hey...it needs them)

Well, remember, the idea, mostly is to tie the quirk to the pods, not so much the chassis. But otherwise, yeah.

[mogs01gt]

John80sk, on 21 December 2014 - 11:11 PM, said:

My point is you stated that the Summoner couldn't perform against good players. I'm disagreeing on the basis of Hybrid being a good player with a good group player's ELO, and therefor ELO matching him against good players. I'm also basing this on me taking this mech against Lord, SJR, and other such premades and having it perform quite well.

Well higher ELO matches typically last longer than other matches. Since mobility is highly used in those type of battles, the Summoner probably would perform better. Its a mech that doesnt want to rush or get rushed. Its like how the Maddog wants to keep moving and away from the other team. Both do not do well in a all out brawl; one due to poor hitboxes and the other due to low damage potential(or using "sniper" weapons).

[Bishop Steiner]

mogs01gt, on 22 December 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

[/size]
Well higher ELO matches typically last longer than other matches. Since mobility is highly used in those type of battles, the Summoner probably would perform better. Its a mech that doesnt want to rush or get rushed. Its like how the Maddog wants to keep moving and away from the other team. Both do not do well in a all out brawl; one due to poor hitboxes and the other due to low damage potential(or using "sniper" weapons).

and I've never seen (even during the height of clan poptarting) LORDs, SJR or any of the true top tier teams seem to favor the Summoner. (despite running into them in various group sizes, almost nightly)

That tells me right there that while a Top Tier pilot can do well in a Summoner, it's rarely going to be when going against other top tier pilots. And since outside of 12 v 12, the Elo is an average of the players on both sides, I have seem comp teams drop with total noobs.

Or comp ten mans vs multiple disorganized smaller units. In those cases, the Summoner will do OK, even good. Against an equal team of LORDs, etc?

Bring a Timby.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 22 December 2014 - 08:29 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

and I've never seen (even during the height of clan poptarting) LORDs, SJR or any of the true top tier teams seem to favor the Summoner. (despite running into them in various group sizes, almost nightly)
That tells me right there that while a Top Tier pilot can do well in a Summoner, it's rarely going to be when going against other top tier pilots. And since outside of 12 v 12, the Elo is an average of the players on both sides, I have seem comp teams drop with total noobs.
Or comp ten mans vs multiple disorganized smaller units. In those cases, the Summoner will do OK, even good. Against an equal team of LORDs, etc?
Bring a Timby.

That is because fan boys would bring the Thor but there is flat out no reason to. There are couple of mechs that can pop tart better and perform better than the Thor.

Just thinking off hand:
Victor
TBR
3D

Edited by mogs01gt, 22 December 2014 - 08:32 AM.

[Xythius]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

True, though one has to balance it with giving the Poptarters back an ezmode Pogostick. (Again, not an issue had PGI jsut fixed JJ reticle shake)

That is a valid concern, however, I would hope that, along with your idea of the reticle shake fix/change, the falling damage mechanic would help to deter that. A few good jumps without cushion will quickly see the leg armor drastically reduced, making further non-cushioned jumps dangerous, if not deadly. It would also be a perfect opener for any opponent to simply move in & finish off the legs entirely.

I could be wrong and I suppose for some players, the tradeoffs may be worth it, but I would like to think that a smart player would realize that poptarting will soon leave him rather vulnerable on the legs. An arty strike or a well made ambush/flank attack could remove a leg and it would pretty much be over for that pilot. A legged 'mech is -usually- a dead/soon to be dead 'mech.

[Wintersdark]

FupDup, on 21 December 2014 - 08:41 PM, said:

For the Hellbie, cooling is indeed its biggest issue but I find that it's still an amazing robot in spite of it. With Endo and FF it might very well rival the Timber because it already has amazing hardpoints (arguably better hardpoints than the TBR itself, because high mounted torso guns and asymmetry).

This isn't a problem. There should be competitiveness between the mechs. This leads into further Clan XL penalties to balance IS vs. Clan overall once the mechs are reasonably equal.

Quote

For the others, it would help but I don't like that it would make Omnimechs be built more similar to Battlemechs than they are currently. Locked internal stuff adds a degree of "flavor" between them and makes customizing them feel at least somewhat different.

The locked ES/FF doesn't really impact flavor at all. Sure, it makes things in the Mechlab a little more similar, but it doesn't impact the feel of the mech. Clan mechs feel very different: This is primarily due to locked engines, and clan weaponry. The only impact ES/FF have is (rarely) omnipod space limitations and overall tonnage availability.

Which do you feel would reduce the differentiation more in practice between IS and Clan (I mean, how they feel different, not balance): ES (feel exactly the same while piloting), or having Clan mechs be heavily quirked and thus specialized like IS mechs? Right now, generally speaking a Clan ER Medium Laser is pretty much exactly the same on every Clan mech. This is entirely untrue on IS mechs, where specific mechs handle given weapon loads very differently.

Quote

Heck, for the lights, they already have both so they would stay sub-par anyways, because their weakness is based on their engines... Does that mean we should allow Clan engine swapping too? Because that's effectively the same logic as is being used to suggest the unlocking of Endo and FF, just applied to a different piece of hardware.

But then if we let them change their engines, that would unleash an even greater crapstorm with the other Clan mechs.

No. We're not comparing IS vs Clan to come to the conclusion that Endo (and/or FF) should be unlocked. The rationale to unlock them is entirely within the Clans: Mechs without either are simply junk comparitively, and will remain junk unless they are heavily quirked.

In short: There is no "slippery slope" here, no push to unlock Clan engines. ALL clan mechs have locked engines. And larger/smaller engines are not always advantageous.

Can you see the difference? I'm sure you can. Having Endo Steel equipped has essentially no cost at all because, like even with IS mechs, you lack the tonnage to use those slots in almost every instance. It's simply a flat tonnage bonus. Thus, all Clan mechs with ES (leaving potentially DWF's aside) are simply better than those without. This isn't flavour, it's just random balance fuckery. There's no tradeoff for that.

Given that, lets disregard the rest relating to unlocking engines, which simply shouldn't happen.

Quote

I think in the end, quirks are the way to avoid opening cans of worms when it comes to equalizing the Clan lineup. Khobai's idea of giving bonus quirks for mechs lacking Endo/FF is a good idea too. Some people say that quirks make them more similar to the IS, and to a degree that's true...opening up their customization also makes them similar to the IS, so it can't really be escaped either way.

Both make them more similar to IS. But Quirks make them FEEL more similar to IS in actual usage, while ES simply buffs weaker chassis but doesn't alter how they feel in play.

Quirks, on IS mechs, actually limit customization. They make Battlemechs more focussed in a certain way, makes them more "stockesque". Adding ES (well, the option to add it, but that's functionally identical to just given them ES locked on) makes those poor clan Omnimechs more customizable in practice. It makes the Omnimechs more... Omnimech.

Quote

The way to somewhat differentiate their quirks would be to have all them assigned on a per-omnipod basis, and not have any "general" weapon quirks (i.e. don't reduce heat on all energy weapons, just a specific type, etc.). If people wanted to get quirks for multiple weapon types they would have to mix-and-match their pods to find that "just right" combination. Or they could just hyperspecialize if they felt like it, too.

But right here, you're doing exactly what the IS quirks do, but even more. You're increasing specialization on Omnimechs and as such reducing customization. If anything, Omnimechs should feel more customizable. Not in terms of which buttons you can click (adding/removing ES really doesn't impact customization, as people would just click it on and leave it on) while having no/general quirks allows players to equip whichever weapons they want.

If you made a Ballistic Arm, for example, have a UAC20 specific bonus, that arm would be a UAC20 arm, not a Ballistic Arm anymore. Less variety in builds.

I argue that less variety in builds works for IS battlemechs, but wouldn't work so well for omnimechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Xythius, on 22 December 2014 - 08:37 AM, said:

That is a valid concern, however, I would hope that, along with your idea of the reticle shake fix/change, the falling damage mechanic would help to deter that. A few good jumps without cushion will quickly see the leg armor drastically reduced, making further non-cushioned jumps dangerous, if not deadly. It would also be a perfect opener for any opponent to simply move in & finish off the legs entirely.

I could be wrong and I suppose for some players, the tradeoffs may be worth it, but I would like to think that a smart player would realize that poptarting will soon leave him rather vulnerable on the legs. An arty strike or a well made ambush/flank attack could remove a leg and it would pretty much be over for that pilot. A legged 'mech is -usually- a dead/soon to be dead 'mech.

agreed, just tough to depend on getting PGI to see the merit of "mixed ideas", they seem to like to make most balance changes in individual vacuums for some reason. So one would need them to acknowledge the need for reticle shake, which under their current usage, they won't see, until after it starts getting abused again....at which point they will probably just repeal JJs to their previous state.

Russ and Paul have gotten a lot better at a lot of things, lately, but in the JJ/Poptart area, they seem highly myopic, still.

[Redshift2k5]

Having trouble getting my Summoners to perform, even with the quirks. More torso twist speed/leg turn speed is needed, I think.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

Hope you are wrong. I find those builds excessively boring to run. And we need reasons to run mechs that are not laservomit. (Of course, part of that, is we need to make Clan ACs better. Not IS good, since they are lighter, but better)

All of the current lights, mediums and heavies (and the Gargoyle as well) that the Clans have are locked into some variety of Laser Vomit or Missile Splat builds.

If CUAC 5s weren't so bad on spread a few of the heavies could run 2x UAC5s or similar, but they are still going to fill the build with lasers.


The tonnage just isn't there for much else, due to the size of their engines and the locked DHS you might as well use.



Broadly speaking every over-engined clan mech that gets released will be judged on how many CERMLAS it can fit on the build.

[SgtMagor]

laser boats have a use but there boring, monotonous to use, I always liked a mixed loadout of missile, ballistic, energy weapons. there are some mechs that only carry 2 of the 3 but that seems way more fun and interesting, than an all energy mech. but the way Clan mechs are set up, I guess the best bang for the buck, are lasers...

[Ultimax]

Redshift2k5, on 22 December 2014 - 08:42 AM, said:

Having trouble getting my Summoners to perform, even with the quirks. More torso twist speed/leg turn speed is needed, I think.

What's wrong with it's Torso Twist Speed & turning?

It has faster arm yaw speed, faster twist speed and faster torso yaw speed than any practical Thunderbolt or Cataphract build.

[Bishop Steiner]

Wintersdark, on 22 December 2014 - 08:38 AM, said:

This isn't a problem. There should be competitiveness between the mechs. This leads into further Clan XL penalties to balance IS vs. Clan overall once the mechs are reasonably equal.

The locked ES/FF doesn't really impact flavor at all. Sure, it makes things in the Mechlab a little more similar, but it doesn't impact the feel of the mech. Clan mechs feel very different: This is primarily due to locked engines, and clan weaponry. The only impact ES/FF have is (rarely) omnipod space limitations and overall tonnage availability.

Which do you feel would reduce the differentiation more in practice between IS and Clan (I mean, how they feel different, not balance): ES (feel exactly the same while piloting), or having Clan mechs be heavily quirked and thus specialized like IS mechs? Right now, generally speaking a Clan ER Medium Laser is pretty much exactly the same on every Clan mech. This is entirely untrue on IS mechs, where specific mechs handle given weapon loads very differently.

No. We're not comparing IS vs Clan to come to the conclusion that Endo (and/or FF) should be unlocked. The rationale to unlock them is entirely within the Clans: Mechs without either are simply junk comparitively, and will remain junk unless they are heavily quirked.

In short: There is no "slippery slope" here, no push to unlock Clan engines. ALL clan mechs have locked engines. And larger/smaller engines are not always advantageous.

Can you see the difference? I'm sure you can. Having Endo Steel equipped has essentially no cost at all because, like even with IS mechs, you lack the tonnage to use those slots in almost every instance. It's simply a flat tonnage bonus. Thus, all Clan mechs with ES (leaving potentially DWF's aside) are simply better than those without. This isn't flavour, it's just random balance fuckery. There's no tradeoff for that.

Given that, lets disregard the rest relating to unlocking engines, which simply shouldn't happen.

Both make them more similar to IS. But Quirks make them FEEL more similar to IS in actual usage, while ES simply buffs weaker chassis but doesn't alter how they feel in play.

Quirks, on IS mechs, actually limit customization. They make Battlemechs more focussed in a certain way, makes them more "stockesque". Adding ES (well, the option to add it, but that's functionally identical to just given them ES locked on) makes those poor clan Omnimechs more customizable in practice. It makes the Omnimechs more... Omnimech.


But right here, you're doing exactly what the IS quirks do, but even more. You're increasing specialization on Omnimechs and as such reducing customization. If anything, Omnimechs should feel more customizable. Not in terms of which buttons you can click (adding/removing ES really doesn't impact customization, as people would just click it on and leave it on) while having no/general quirks allows players to equip whichever weapons they want.

If you made a Ballistic Arm, for example, have a UAC20 specific bonus, that arm would be a UAC20 arm, not a Ballistic Arm anymore. Less variety in builds.

I argue that less variety in builds works for IS battlemechs, but wouldn't work so well for omnimechs.

It's a frustrating issue for me.

I'm a Battletech guy, a lore guy, first. It's why I play this franchise over any other game (save MarioKart, lol).

So, I get where the difference lies, supposedly. Clan Mechs are produced for rapid battlefield deployment and weapon diversity. (They are generally less capable as specialists, in lore, but far more versatile because of this). They are part of a very spartan military mindset, and not owned by the pilot. (except in the absolute rarest of instances) That a significant modification to the internals or armor would not be allowed, and would screw logistics (an omni slot built around a stock standard skeleton might not interface properly with a bulkier, jury rigged endo steel one...if there was even a way for a clan warrior to get a pimp my mech custom chassis).


And that mix of not being owned, having no Mech customizing support structure, along with the technical and logistical hurdles, are why no clan omni (and tbh, in lore, no clan Battlemech) gets swappable endo, ferro, or engines. That customization actually jeopardizes the Clan's logistics, and is thus, wasteful.

But then again, outside of Solaris Customization shops, no IS mechs swapped Internal Structures in lore, either, as that is the bloody skeleton of the mech. The time and cost involved to engineer a custom one off, simply is not a worthwhile tradeoff. It would cost as much as a whole new mech.

So that's the lore side.

BUT........

​Much as I wish it were otherwise, we are talking a FPS version of the game that has already had to take significantliberties with "lore" to work. And atm, as you say, the Clan Omnis not only are just a straight downgrade, that even ridiculous quirks would just bandaid over the real issue.....

But it makes balancing the clans near impossible, as Clan Omnis are pure "feast or famine". You have Upper tier, the Unholy Trinity, and you get the Lower Tier, everything else. There really is no true middle tier.

So currently, blance buffs just keep the Rich that much richer, and Nerfs just make the poor, poorer. And quirks are really just (for the most part) Mech Welfare, covering up the real issues. Limited "stock" quirks to make a mostly balanced tech level, like IS Battlemechs, make some sense as it gives flavor. But the instances where they have used it to try to cover for horrible hit boxes, hardpoints, etc, tend to give those very narrow, very cheezy builds like the 3 ER PPC Thunderbolts.

That ain't balance. That ain't chassis diversity. And in the world of clan omnis, where the gap between haves and have not sis even wider, and more stringently segregated, it will be even worse.

Omni customization, in the end, their balancer, is their swappable pods. Endo and Ferro really have no impact on that. There locked engines, and locked "stock" articles already still keep them far more balanced than a couple extra tons.

And once all Omnis are on a relatively even playing field, actually balancing the CLANS, on not the individual chassis, will be a lot more doable.

[KuroNyra]

The Boz, on 22 December 2014 - 04:22 AM, said:

...and this is hardpoint inflation?
Are you kidding me?

Considering your previous post I return the question to you.

The Summoner is at the moment far from being a viable choice, it's a chassis you will use only because "it's a Summoner and I love Summoner", but you won't be efficient with it unless you are skilled and got a lucky game.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 22 December 2014 - 08:46 AM, said:

All of the current lights, mediums and heavies (and the Gargoyle as well) that the Clans have are locked into some variety of Laser Vomit or Missile Splat builds.

If CUAC 5s weren't so bad on spread a few of the heavies could run 2x UAC5s or similar, but they are still going to fill the build with lasers.


The tonnage just isn't there for much else, due to the size of their engines and the locked DHS you might as well use.



Broadly speaking every over-engined clan mech that gets released will be judged on how many CERMLAS it can fit on the build.

and yet there is no reason to maintain that status quo.

I can get the stock Summoner to work decent, using the least meta of loadouts. Going against those meta builds, even.

We need to look at Clan Balance, and Quirks as a means to break the meta, not reinforce it.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 22 December 2014 - 08:58 AM, said:

What's wrong with it's Torso Twist Speed & turning?

It has faster arm yaw speed, faster twist speed and faster torso yaw speed than any practical Thunderbolt or Cataphract build.

and the ctf doesn't lose it's arm yaw for mounting ballistics or PPCs, and gets IS PP-FLD ballistics to boot...along with not needing to be mandatorily over engineered, and can pick and choose how many JJs it mounts.

If you think a few degrees of twist, make us for that, my friend, you need to rethink that. Especially since if you run anything but lasers in the arms, that 120 is ALL you get. And all those other mechs can mount whatever in their arms and get to 128º, whereas if the SMN uses those ballistics or PPCs, it's actually getting less, being locked to 120º.

Right now, even with quirks, the Summoner is inferior to the CTF-3D, (or the the two build limited Thunderbolts), let alone being remotely as good as the other Clan Heavies.

And it ain't even worthy of holding the TWolfs jock.

KuroNyra, on 22 December 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

Considering your previous post I return the question to you.

The Summoner is at the moment far from being a viable choice, it's a chassis you will use only because "it's a Summoner and I love Summoner", but you won't be efficient with it unless you are skilled and got a lucky game.

Yeah, I already touched on that. Even if you ignore the hardpoint "re-assignment" like the Centy..... which Centurion has 2-3 Autocannons in their arm? Yet most have 2-3 ballistics slots there..... Which has multiple missile racks in the LT? Yet all have 2-3 missile hardpoints there.......

[Tribesmen]

Out of all the Clan mechs the Summoner is my best. 2 ER PPC/ 2 machine guns/ 2 Medium lasers, always high damage with it. (500-1000+)

Edited by dama9e, 22 December 2014 - 09:19 AM.

[Aethon]

FupDup, on 21 December 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

The problem with unlocking the "core" of an Omni means that people will inevitably ask for the logic to carry over to other Omnimechs.

I don't think you want to see what kind of things I could do with a Hellbringer that has Endo Steel. I would do horrible, unspeakable things...

I was looking at it last night; rather than open up the option to change the chassis, what about simply converting it to Endo-Steel out of the box? It would do wonders for this chassis. As a canon nerd, I normally would not recommend this, but the pre-nerfed version of the CERPPC we have, combined with doubled armor, are going to require other balancing changes to compensate. The original Summoner kind of relied on its CERPPC to punch the holes that its cluster munitions could exploit, and one CERPPC simply is not enough for that in this game, especially with a heavy.

The other option I like is giving its omnipods more hardpoints, although it kind of needs a bit more available tonnage to make use of them, unless you want to just spam small/med lasers and mg's on all your configs.

[Ultimax]

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 09:00 AM, said:

and yet there is no reason to maintain that status quo.

I can get the stock Summoner to work decent, using the least meta of loadouts. Going against those meta builds, even.

We need to look at Clan Balance, and Quirks as a means to break the meta, not reinforce it.

I'm OK with breaking the status quo, and IS quirks for "cheesy" builds did exactly that.

Super quirks for ER PPCs is why we can now find a Thunderbolt 9S on the field, or a 5SS.

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

and the ctf doesn't lose it's arm yaw for mounting ballistics or PPCs, and gets IS PP-FLD ballistics to boot...along with not needing to be mandatorily over engineered, and can pick and choose how many JJs it mounts.

If you think a few degrees of twist, make us for that, my friend, you need to rethink that.

A few degrees of twist? No.

But the point is that those two mechs are both less maneuverable than the Summoner, with the poster I was responding to saying it's not maneuverable enough. After a week in 300 STD engine Thunderbolts the Summoner feels like a ballerina.



The ability to not die when the SMN loses a side torso? Yes.

Typically I'd say the ability to customize Omni-pods as well, but that's where I think the Summoner is most lacking (choice of omni-pods) and I'd like to see more options added to the Summoner.


Some other points:

• You can keep limited arm yaw as long as you don't slot PPCs/Ballistics in both arms.
  
• I've argued, against you ironically, that the Summoner should be allowed to remove some JJs.

Bishop Steiner, on 22 December 2014 - 09:05 AM, said:

Especially since if you run anything but lasers in the arms, that 120 is ALL you get. And all those other mechs can mount whatever in their arms and get to 128º, whereas if the SMN uses those ballistics or PPCs, it's actually getting less, being locked to 120º.

As I said above, you can maintain limited yaw if you keep the lower arm actuator on one of the arms by not slotting PPC/Ballistics there.



If you want to be fair, once you actually compare it to Cataphracts with multiple PPCs and/or Ballistics, they are dropping down to 300 or even 280 engines (AC10x2 + PPC build for example).

Edited by Ultimatum X, 22 December 2014 - 09:26 AM.

[1453 R]

If - I say IF - at any point the player base manages to push through unlocking Endo/Ferro options for Clan 'Mechs, there's only one way it will be acceptable. Neither upgrade is dynamic. Assign Endo or Ferro? the upgrade goes to the "Structure Upgrade 1" slots and takes up fixed and specified critical slots in the 'Mech. Assign both Endo and Ferro? Then you fill up both "Structure Upgrade 1" slots and "structure Upgrade 2" slots, with either set of slots to be determined by PGI if necessary but with both aimed to do the same thing. Clans distribute their Endo/FF equally throughout the 'Mech and typically do so taking up 'valuable' crits such as the CT, head, and legs.

Piranha does the same with self-assigned Endo/FF upgrades, and uses them to selectively bother people and maintain the spirit of the fixed base chassis without inflicting crippling penalties on 'Mechs that weren't gifted by the tabletop gods with the top choice of MWO upgrades. IS structure upgrades have the advantage of being dynamic and thus allowing for shield-side combat or symmetric combat as the pilot/chassis prefer, while Clan structure upgrades have the advantage of not eating every single crit slot the g'damned 'Mech has. If, and I say IF, you really, truly canot live without breaking the hardlocked base chassis rules, that right up there is your only conceivable shot of not opening up a tremendous fiery Shatnerstorm of hatred and recrimination that will last throughout the ages.