19 replies to this topic

[Big Tin Man]

In my quest to progressively update my computer, I have hit the final stage, and the i7 930 is soon to go out. So far I have the following:

Case
Lots o'fans (no liquid cooling)
6 x 2 MB DDR3 1833 (current MB can only handle 1600)
240 GB SSD
1 TB 7200 RPM HD
EVGA GTX 750 1 GB

Looking to play MWO, Starcraft, and StarCitizen. I have a history of running with Intel, but I'm not married to it. I know many games don't seem to optimize for AMD, so there's that. What can be recommended out there? Preference is given for a plug and play solution vs. manually o/c'ing and spending a lot of trial and error time building a system.

[Diznitch]

What are you asking? BTW I have an i7 960 w/ GTX760 and it's 60fps at 1920x1200... (max graphics settings in MWO)

[Lord Letto]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($299.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z97X-UD3H-BK ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($149.98 @ OutletPC)
Total: $449.97
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-22 20:15 EST-0500

[cSand]

If you're not bothered with overclocking....

Go with a Xeon 1231 or 1241.

All the power and goodness of an i7, bout 100$ cheaper (no integrated graphics though)

I have the same Mobo as the fella above mentioned and it's a good one! Don;t bother with the extra price of the black edition though.... it's just marketing jazz, and gets tested for longer than the normal version (does look more badass though)

Edited by cSand, 22 December 2014 - 05:18 PM.

[Lord Letto]

cSand, on 22 December 2014 - 05:17 PM, said:

If you're not bothered with overclocking....

Go with a Xeon 1231 or 1241.

All the power and goodness of an i7, bout 100$ cheaper (no integrated graphics though)

I have the same Mobo as the fella above mentioned and it's a good one! Don;t bother with the extra price of the black edition though.... it's just marketing jazz, and gets tested for longer than the normal version (does look more badass though)

I think the i7 4790K would be better, even if it's just stock, when it comes to GHz that MWO Loves the i7 4790K is 4.0GHz Stock for $300 while the Fastest Xeons I could find on PCpartpicker.com is the E5-1620 V2, 1630 V3 & 1660 V2@3.7GHz, cheapest of those 3 is the 1620 V2 @ $289, that's only $11 Less than the 4790K.

Edited by Lord Letto, 22 December 2014 - 07:11 PM.

[Smokeyjedi]

Lord Letto, on 22 December 2014 - 07:08 PM, said:

I think the i7 4790K would be better, even if it's just stock, when it comes to GHz that MWO Loves the i7 4790K is 4.0GHz Stock for $300 while the Fastest Xeons I could find on PCpartpicker.com is the E5-1620 V2, 1630 V3 & 1660 V2@3.7GHz, cheapest of those 3 is the 1620 V2 @ $289, that's only $11 Less than the 4790K.

But Xeons have the highest IPC per core that intel makes IIRC? correct me if I am wrong....but they are server chips?

[Lord Letto]

Smokeyjedi, on 23 December 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

But Xeons have the highest IPC per core that intel makes IIRC? correct me if I am wrong....but they are server chips?

Not sure about IPC per core? but when I googled i7 4790K Vs Xeon E5-1620 v2, the Xeon had 2MB More L3 Cache, Supports More RAM and was cheaper, i7 had Lower TDP, Faster Base and Turbo Clock Speed, i7 is Unlocked therefore could be Overclocked, Built in GPU, Slightly Higher Max Temp, 9 Months Newer and have more instructions.

and Yes, Xeons are Server Grade CPUs, Not Gaming Grade Unless Server>Gaming in that case, maybe find a Server with Dual Xeons or something and see how MWO Can handle 2x the CPU.

Edited by Lord Letto, 23 December 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[cSand]

The E3 line of Xeons, for most of the models, (1231, 1241 etc) are basically i7 processors (except the 1220/25 I believe is more like an i5, no hyperthreading). View my comparison on Intel's site below and you will see.

Main difference is that there is no iGPU, and slightly different clock speeds. Also no overclocking. What makes them "server" processors is ECC memory support which has no impact otherwise on performance. As far as gaming is concnerned, MHz for MHz they will give exactly the same performance as an i7. The 4790K is 4GHz stock though which is nice.

http://ark.intel.com...122,80910,80909

Don't compare the E5 line, they are completely different (2011 LGA I believe) and way more expensive! V2 series was equivalent 3rd gen i series... V3 series is 4th gen.

I have the 1231 v3 in my PC and paired with my R9 290 it runs MWO like a dream (especially after the latest AMD drivers )

For a plug and play, no hassle processor they are a good choice... especialyll if you want to save 100$!
and with some Mobos (ASRock makes som I know of) they have "multicore enhancement" which will allow the Xeon (or i7, or any processor with Turbo) to run at max turbo speeds on all cores. (usually Turbo scales back the more cores are utilized. For instance, i7 4790 will go 4Ghz turbo on 1 core, 3.9 on 2, 3.8 on 3 or 4 I believe)

Edited by cSand, 23 December 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

You are not going to game well with a GTX750

[Lord Letto]

i7-3820 vs Xeon E3-1271 V3 Vs Xenon E3-1276 V3 Vs i7 4790: http://pcpartpicker....-bx80646i74790/

in that example, Xeons appear to have minimal diffrences while costing more then the i7 of same base clock speed

in the 3.5GHz Range where there are numerous more Options though, Xeon seams better in the lower numbers
i7 3770K Vs 4770K Vs E3-1241 Vs 1246: http://pcpartpicker....bx80646i74770k/
That seams to be more of what your talking about except it's more $50-60 Less, not $100

Down to 3.4GHz, i7 2600K Vs 3770 vs 4770 vs E3-1231: http://pcpartpicker....-bx80646i74770/

To end it off, Fastest GHz i7 Vs Fastest Ghz Xeon E3, i7 4790K vs i7 4820K vs E3 1271 vs 1276: http://pcpartpicker....bx80646i74790k/

Edited by Lord Letto, 23 December 2014 - 09:55 PM.

[Flapdrol]

If it's mainly about games I wouldn't bother with the i7, just get an i5 and overclock that.

The only interesting i7 imo is the 5820K, but that's only for expensive X99 boards and needs ddr4, so doesn't fit in the budget.

Also, a gtx750 isn't exactly a powerhouse, if you're looking to play more than this game I'd advise to upgrade the gpu instead of the cpu, overclock the 930 to 4.0 or something.

Edited by Flapdrol, 24 December 2014 - 04:55 AM.

[cSand]

Lord Letto, on 23 December 2014 - 09:49 PM, said:

i7-3820 vs Xeon E3-1271 V3 Vs Xenon E3-1276 V3 Vs i7 4790: http://pcpartpicker....-bx80646i74790/

in that example, Xeons appear to have minimal diffrences while costing more then the i7 of same base clock speed

in the 3.5GHz Range where there are numerous more Options though, Xeon seams better in the lower numbers
i7 3770K Vs 4770K Vs E3-1241 Vs 1246: http://pcpartpicker....bx80646i74770k/
That seams to be more of what your talking about except it's more $50-60 Less, not $100

Down to 3.4GHz, i7 2600K Vs 3770 vs 4770 vs E3-1231: http://pcpartpicker....-bx80646i74770/

To end it off, Fastest GHz i7 Vs Fastest Ghz Xeon E3, i7 4790K vs i7 4820K vs E3 1271 vs 1276: http://pcpartpicker....bx80646i74790k/

You;re right, I'm talking about the i5-i7 pricepoint here

PLus, a 3820 is more in line with the E5 offerings.

Anyways, all I was saying is that if you're gonna get an i5, and you don;t care about OCing, you may as well get a Xeon for a similar price.

Edited by cSand, 24 December 2014 - 08:53 AM.

[Big Tin Man]

Interesting. I was just operating on intuition that my 4.5 year old CPU was the last bottleneck in the system to push out. I run MWO at max settings in the 30-40's, but SC is, well, painful.

A couple of you have mentioned that I'd be better off upgrading (again) the GPU and O/C'ing the 930. I know my MB is very o/c friendly and my 930 is unlocked, I've just never taken the time to mess with it. It's not something that I have any understanding of other than less volts = faster and for gods sake get a big liquid cooler. What do I have to lose if I o/c and burn it up? How modular are water coolers, and by o/c'ing, is it possible to fry the GPU (doesn't seem likely). I have a little bit of time between now and new years to tinker with it.

[Goose]

The time I though about overclocking my i7-920, I kept getting the vibe that you really needed DDR3-1600 "to go with a 200mHz frontside bus," and my c0 stepping was "too early." I instead spring for an i7-990x … And about a year later, I up'd the RAM speed to DDR3-1866.

Through all this, I've kept my Noctua NH-U12P, but I've replaced the push-pull NF-P12 pair of fans with a single iPPC-3000 PWM; Nice and quite when not being beaten upon …

Do understand that Nehalem doesn't have all the IPC advantage that Sandy Bridge, and latter architects, have: Depending upon what your oc turns out to be, you may be stuck with lowered "graphic" settings, the ones known to be CPU-centric …

[ApolloKaras]

That link you posted Lord has the 4790k@ $328. I second the notion that if you are trying to save money the e3-1231 is the way to go. Retail wise you are looking at almost a 100 bucks less that would allow you to spend to other areas. That is if you aren't overclocking. If you want to overclock then get the 4790k - no doubt. MWO LOVES cpu cycles so the more the merrier.

[Lord Letto]

Saxie, on 24 December 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

That link you posted Lord has the 4790k@ $328. I second the notion that if you are trying to save money the e3-1231 is the way to go. Retail wise you are looking at almost a 100 bucks less that would allow you to spend to other areas. That is if you aren't overclocking. If you want to overclock then get the 4790k - no doubt. MWO LOVES cpu cycles so the more the merrier.

Prices must have Changed, was listed @ $300, if you check Retailers though it's listed for $250 @ Microcenter, in store pickup only though. also, the $329 is before the $10 MIR that would make it $319

Microcenter Link: http://www.microcent...Boxed_Processor

Edited by Lord Letto, 24 December 2014 - 10:02 AM.

[cSand]

Well, I got my E3 1231 for 270 CDN... I'm sure there are even better prices around these days.

The price savings, for a couple hundred MHz less difference, is more than worth it. Plus, I'm playing MWO maxed out at 60FPS most of the time (drops a bit at certian moments)

[Lord Letto]

cSand, on 24 December 2014 - 10:07 AM, said:

Well, I got my E3 1231 for 270 CDN... I'm sure there are even better prices around these days.

The price savings, for a couple hundred MHz less difference, is more than worth it. Plus, I'm playing MWO maxed out at 60FPS most of the time (drops a bit at certian moments)

V3? Looking at Canadian PcPartPicker the E3-1231 V3 is $307 @ Newegg while the i7 4790K is $330 @ Memory Express
the E3 1230 V3 is like $1.50 Less than the 1231 V3, the 1230 V2 is like $60 Less then the V3 Models:
http://ca.pcpartpick...bx80646i74790k/

Quick question, Passmark (Single Core) Benchmarks, is that what should be looked at for MWO (For Single Core Performance/IPC)? if so than a i5 4790K>Xeon E3-1231 V3 with the i7 4790K Having best Passmark (Single Core) Result:
http://pcpartpicker....bx80646i54690k/
http://cpuboss.com/c...l-Core-i5-4690K
http://tinyurl.com/l8z2cfq
http://tinyurl.com/ayopfjt
https://www.cpubench...ngleThread.html

Edited by Lord Letto, 24 December 2014 - 11:33 AM.

[cSand]

Yep V3. 1230 is 100MHz slower than the 1231.

RE: Passmark scores, obviously the 4GHz clock i5 will be higher on single core

You can throw numbers at me all day, all I'm saying is that if you want i7 level features (including hyperthreading), and a CPU that will perform solidly at gaming and also better at more productive things, a Xeon is the way to go for cost effectiveness.

If you're just gaming and OCing, the K-SKU i5 4GHz is obviously the best choice. The mininmal performance gain (gaming) with the K-SKU 4GHz i7 for the amount of extra $$ it costs you is not really worth it.

BUT if you want a good balance of the 2; i7 multithread performance at lower cost; then it's Xeon, hands down.

Trouble with gamers is they tend to think more $$ / higher numbers = better system. That's all great but results in a lot of wasted money.

Will the user be able to tell the difference between 3.7GHz and 4GHz? Not unless you're looking at numbers on benchmark site.. in a real world applications the difference is barely noticable if at all. If numbers and arbitrary scores are your thing than go ahead and drop the cash on the best LGA 2011 money can buy, to squeak out a few extra points in Passmark. Will that translate to noicable real-world gains? Enough to be worth the hundreds of extra $$? Not really. Most games these days can hardly fully utilize an i5, let alone an 8 core 16 thread beast.


End of the day, the value is at the 1231 and 1241 Xeons. Especially if you get a mobo with Enhanced Turbo, so that Xeon can run @ max turbo clock on all cores

.... all this assuming that overclocking holds no value to you of course. I mean, if you're gonna get a non-K i7 @ 3.5-3.9 GHz, why not save yourself 70-100$ and get a 3.4 - 3.8GHz Xeon? Put that cash towards an SSD or a better GPU!

Edited by cSand, 24 December 2014 - 01:38 PM.

[Lord Letto]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1241 V3 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($263.95 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 750 Ti 2GB Video Card ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $491.92
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-24 16:42 EST-0500


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1231 V3 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($242.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: HIS Radeon R9 270 2GB IceQ X² Video Card ($111.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $482.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-24 16:45 EST-0500


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($187.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon R9 280 3GB WINDFORCE Video Card ($179.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $495.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-24 16:47 EST-0500

Z97 Chipset and PSU is for Future CPU or GPU (Or Both) Upgrades

FYI, MWO <3 CPU Single Core Performance, not Multi Core Performance, not sure about SC Though?

also, I think you mean 4GHz i7 when you say 4GHz i5, there's no 4GHz i5 unless OCed.

If there's a Micro Center Nearby to get the $250 i7 4790K:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i7-4790K 4.0GHz Quad-Core Processor ($249.99 @ Micro Center)
Motherboard: MSI Z97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard ($77.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: HIS Radeon R9 270 2GB IceQ X² Video Card ($111.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: EVGA 750W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Total: $489.96
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-12-24 17:01 EST-0500

Edited by Lord Letto, 24 December 2014 - 02:01 PM.