38 replies to this topic

[Brew E]

Remember Guys Factions that don't boarder clan space have no choice but defend where the action is. Hence Liao, Davion and Marik currently have no clan boarders so all they can do is defend not attack.

Edited by Brew E, 05 January 2015 - 09:46 AM.

[Karpundir]

Generally, I find that attacking a planet with no defenders is what is required to get the ball rolling. It has to start somewhere. Why would defenders sit on a planet with no attackers?

It is for this reason why the coordinated factions have had success (look at how both FRR and Steiner went from being on Defense to Attack in the past few days). The first drop or two will be ghost drops most likely, but then the floodgates open as more players drop in to that planet.

If the IS factions with no Clan border want to help those that have a Clan border, then watch for those few planets that get attacked by 12s all of a sudden (hint: Wolf and CGB attacks against FRR are happening daily).

The key is to monitor the planetary numbers after every CW match and see what the trends are.

[Asyres]

Kjudoon, on 04 January 2015 - 06:50 AM, said:

That is what the Public Queues are for. CW is for campaign thinking and strategy and that isn't always 'fun'.

Roadbeer, on 03 January 2015 - 08:18 AM, said:

Then they should stay in the PUB queue

I'm sorry I'm having fun in a game incorrectly. Please forgive me for behaving like a mercenary in a game where I play as a mercenary. [/sarcasm]

[chaas]

I mean there's basically no excuse for Rasalhague, Lyran or DC players to defend on the clan front. You guys have three other houses to do the defending; Marik, Davion and Liao can't attack for you.

[AlmightyAeng]

chaas, on 05 January 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

I mean there's basically no excuse for Rasalhague, Lyran or DC players to defend on the clan front. You guys have three other houses to do the defending; Marik, Davion and Liao can't attack for you.

This is true...but why would they when it's more fun to play with IS and they have plenty of avenues of attack? So, we end up defending our own space because it's so much easier to find a match. Ghost-capping isn't much fun.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 05 January 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[xX PUG Xx]

The thing is "someone" has to start an attack, yes you may have a wait to begin with but once the call to arms goes out the Clan players will start to swap from attack to defend. As has been said, this is the only way to expand the factions territory and the best way to maintain the territory it already has. By stripping Clan attackers from their offensive stance and forcing them to defend.

[Crockdaddy]

Alexander Steel, on 04 January 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

Horrible idea. If Ghost Drops don't count the best way to defend a planet would be to never defend it.

Think about it. Ghost Drops punish a faction for not defending by giving attackers a way to score victories on systems where nobody defends or the other side weakly defends against a strong attack. If Ghost Drops ((or some other punishing mechanic)) don't exist, then if Faction X invades a Planet from FAction Y with 60 people, and Faction Y chooses not to defend... then Faction X can't take the planet.

That's stupid.

Truth is ghost drops and pugs defense is the reason why you hit IS space so hard. HK wasn't set to defend against Davion but to attack clans. Your welcome for all the freebie planets. My only regret is that we hadn't recruited heavy enough prior to CW. I hope we learn the cold lesson of Davion betrayal in Beta. (Some role play melodrama for fun!) :-)

Edited by CrockdaddyAoD, 06 January 2015 - 12:59 AM.

[Alexander Steel]

The Federated Suns attacking the Draconis Combine isn't a betrayal, it's freaking expected at this time because of their 250 years of bitter hatred towards each other.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 06 January 2015 - 07:54 AM.

[Abivard]

Alexander Steel, on 06 January 2015 - 07:54 AM, said:

The Federated Suns attacking the Draconis Combine isn't a betrayal, it's freaking expected at this time because of their 250 years of bitter hatred towards each other.

sorry but CW has only been out for 3 weeks not 250 years, next excuse.

[Voivode]

Perhaps planets need a maximum number of attackers & defenders (perhaps flexible count based on planets importance in lore) or a reward system where piling into the planet everyone is fighting over causes drops in earnings while going into planets with fewer people causes an increase in earnings.

Or even a big reward for being the first unit/solopug to attack or defend a given planet (provided you stick around for the drop)

Edited by Voivode, 06 January 2015 - 11:53 AM.

[Idealsuspect]

Slepnir, on 03 January 2015 - 04:17 AM, said:

Put the clans on the defensive, if you see a few people, in a lobby you can join, to attack a clan world get in there and make it a 12.

Maybe IS people prefer defend than attack and thoses peoples cry when they are in counter-attack mode anyway you made my day with this topic.

[Voivode]

Idealsuspect, on 06 January 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Maybe IS people prefer defend than attack and thoses peoples cry when they are in counter-attack mode anyway you made my day with this topic.

Clans get a big advantage attacking over IS. What does it is the clan XL engines. For an IS heavy or medium to go the speeds of the clan mediums and heavies requires an XL, which is significantly higher risk for inner sphere. Since attacking is about bum rushing the generators, that difference in XL engines confers a significant advantage to clans.

Now, I don't think this is a big deal as long as they expand CW to include more than the attack and defend game mode. If it remains only attack and defend then it does become a problem and I think they'll have to make changes to the game mode. Personally, I'd rather they direct their efforts at expanding CW to include many different situations rather than spend all their time trying to "perfect" attack and defend.

[Alexander Steel]

Abivard, on 06 January 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

sorry but CW has only been out for 3 weeks not 250 years, next excuse.

In that case there is no difference between the DC or the Clans for a FS player. If you want to ignore the lore, that's fine... but don't try to ignore part of it then suggest that the part you want IS vs Clans! is valid because you like that lore better.

Edited by Alexander Steel, 08 January 2015 - 08:46 AM.

[Idealsuspect]

Voivode, on 08 January 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Clans get a big advantage attacking over IS. What does it is the clan XL engines. For an IS heavy or medium to go the speeds of the clan mediums and heavies requires an XL, which is significantly higher risk for inner sphere. Since attacking is about bum rushing the generators, that difference in XL engines confers a significant advantage to clans.

Now, I don't think this is a big deal as long as they expand CW to include more than the attack and defend game mode. If it remains only attack and defend then it does become a problem and I think they'll have to make changes to the game mode. Personally, I'd rather they direct their efforts at expanding CW to include many different situations rather than spend all their time trying to "perfect" attack and defend.

Ok so now we know why IS people only defend and why you lose many territory ...

Well i don't play CW also i don't really care i wait they end this beta, fix most of bugs and reset the invasion map ( incoming in may )

[Alexander Steel]

If things keep going the way they have the last couple of days they won't need to reset anything because the clans will be back to their starting invasion points.

[Liam Salem]

What if PGI did something along the lines of what some other games do? Used A.I. for worlds with 12 attackers but no defenders. Or 12 defenders but no attackers.

Also, grousing about how all clan mechs have XL engines is irrelevant. Clan mechs, if anything, are definitely underpowered for what they should have been. Clan ER PPC's should be doing 15 damage and omnipods should NOT have hardpoints period. Also, clanners destroyed any mech that developed quirks.

If anything Clanners should be the ones grousing about how PGI has screwed up their mechs. An Atlas should never be afraid of anything under 75 tons and yet time and time again, I see them hiding from cataphracts or dragons or centurions or worse yet, spiders. Also, Awesomes should have had special in built PPC's for them from the get go, like Yen-lo-Wang had a special AC20. Yet they gave the Awesome quirks, quite recently, to fix the overheating problems.

Battlemasters suck in comparison to what the lore had them at. I bought one, then stripped it and scrapped it. Also, they haven't implemented DFA which, some mechs were known for, I.E. The Highlander.

There's a lot of inconsitencies with the mechs that quite honestly, it's just a bunch of fanboys making the mechs perform how they want them too. A Jager mech is not supposed to be dangerous. If anything, IS mechs should have their weapon loadouts locked OR there should be a fee for not only buying the parts, but custom modifying the mech. IS mechs were not easy to change load outs without custom built weapons and parts for new loadouts.

Inner Sphere blew themselves back in technology because they were more concerned about controlling territory and such. The Clan's focused on warfare and such. The clans never lost their technological curve from the Star League. The Innersphere did and it's not until after 3065 that they gain back a good portion of it due to the Grey Death corp.

Also a heads up: Clan mechs aren't as scary as they should be. Just wait for the Blakist mechs to arrive. Then call the clan mechs overpowered after you see laser heatsinks, 150 ton mechs, oh and light gauss rifles. Yeah. 8 damage for range that will exceed all LRM ranges. Enjoy.

[Voivode]

Liam Salem, on 08 January 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

What if PGI did something along the lines of what some other games do? Used A.I. for worlds with 12 attackers but no defenders. Or 12 defenders but no attackers.

Also, grousing about how all clan mechs have XL engines is irrelevant.

The difference in engines is quite relevant to the attack and defend game mode. To the rest of the game the difference is marginal. As long as CW includes more than the game mode where the engine difference has a large impact, there isn't really an issue, as far as I'm concerned. I say let the clans have their advantage in that arena and then give the IS an advantage in another. It will be a challenge for both sides in different ways, which makes for more interesting and deeper gameplay.

[Alexander Steel]

Quote

Clan mechs, if anything, are definitely underpowered for what they should have been.

They are different from what the Table Top had them, but for a game where each team has the same number and weight they have to be the same power as an equal IS weighted mech.

[Shimmering Sword]

"But I only want to drop where the fight is". Enjoying your grade school dance movie "I wont get on the dance floor until someone else does first" logic?
You see that big battle on your defensive planet? Do you think that battle was always magically there? No, it wasn't. Someone with some brains chose to take the initiative and attack it. They didn't go there because "muh fight", they went there to take your planet. They don't want you to attack back, that's why you see Bears and Green Burds constantly posting "people should just go for a fight" and "attacking wouldn't work anyway" propaganda, they love seeing you sit back and take their beating.

I regularly form up a group to ATTACK an empty enemy planet, within one or two ghost drops the enemy will show up to fight. We take the initiative, we get to fight, we take the planet. That's a win win win.
Down in Marik Liao Davion space we play the map, hard, and it's fun. Many of us have stopped assisting the northern IS factions with the clans because you guys refuse to utilize our help. Why waste our time on you when you brush off our help for "muh fight".

If all you care about is getting a fight, go to the regular queue. Why are you even on CW at all when the wait times are often longer, and the odds of you fighting a non ELO matched 12man are drastically raised. This is an "I like losing" outcome on all fronts, unless you're in it just for the 2 new maps, then enjoy.