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Why You Want The Viper (A Study And A Plea To Piranha)


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#1 1453 R

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 11:27 AM

Read these, or at least keep tabs open to each while we're discussing:

The Viper on Sarna (overview/history/fluff)

The Viper on Solaris 7 (hardpoint/equipment layouts)

Got it? Excellent. Now to get into the nitty-gritty of why we were completely and utterly robbed when we received the Ice Ferret instead of the Viper in the Wave II pack, and why Piranha should totes be awesome guys, correct that grave oversight, and give us the Viper, too.

Back when the Wave II pack was first announced, and before Piranha had told us what was in it, the forum in general knew we were going to be getting either the Ferret or the Viper. The Clans were in absolutely desperate need of speed, and with the Fire Moth off the table due to MASC issues and the Arctic Cheetah off the table for being the Arctic Cheetah (come on, be realistic. We all know Piranha will never dare release this thing, ever), the two scout mediums (i.e. the Ferret and the Viper, for those not paying any attention whatsoever) were about all we had. The smart folks were praying for the Viper, though nobody knew until it released just how incredibly lackluster the Ferret was going to be. Now that we have it though, even the hardest-core of speed freaks and old-school Cicada pilots (of which I count myself among both, most the time) have to admit: the Ferret is not a great platform. Plagued by some of the worst hardpoint options among all OmniMechs and cursed with a miserly nine tons of pod space after max armoring, the Ferret suffers the same issues the Summoner does – it doesn't have the profusion of hardpoints it needs to boat tiny guns, and it doesn't have the weight capacity it needs to carry heavy weaponry effectively. It lacks jump jets, and its profile and hitboxes tend to shed its arms, and thus the majority of its firepower, very quickly.

I love fast 'Mechs and I prefer to play in the 40-60 ton range when I can, and the Ferret is still really difficult for me to enjoy. The Viper, though...ohh, the Viper.

First of all, though the Viper weighs five less tons than the Ferret, it comes hard-loaded with eight jump jets. Eight jump jets. That is more jump jets than any other 'Mech in MWO, on a platform small enough to make effective use of them. If anything in this game is going to cosplay a LAM, it would be the Viper. Combined with 142kph Tweaked speed, and the Viper would have all but unparalleled battlefield mobility. This doesn't come at much of a cost to its pod space compared to the Ferret – the Viper comes with effectively maxed armor stock and has eight and a half tons of pod space to play with when it's done. Forty tons gets up to 142 klicks much more easily than 45 tons does.

Now, the reason that this eight and a half-ton limit isn't a bum deal? Alternate Configuration C.

As you can see from the Solaris 7 TRO link, the Viper C carries two C-Flamers (2E) in the right arm, two C-ERML (2E) in the left arm, and two CMGs (2B) in each of the left and right torsos, as well as a C-Flamer (1E) in the center torso. This hardpoint configuration should look very, very familiar to players...since it is almost exactly identical to the Ember, also known as the best light 'Mech in the game. That's right, folks – the Viper C matches the armament of the Ember with the addition of two extra jump jets and a center torso-mounted energy hardpoint to boot, just for kicks. 5E/4B is more than enough hardpoints to turn eight and a half tons of weapon space into a living Hell for your enemies. Don't believe me? Based on the C configuration hardpoints alone:

5x C-ERML, 4x C-MG (1.5t ammo), 1x DHS: the inevitable Galactic Standard Viper Fit simply bolts an extra CT C-ERML onto the same weapons mix as the Ember, granting a 35-point laser alpha to four hundred meters with the C-MGs to fall back in in close when heat overwhelms. Recall that this mother trucker has eight jump jets with which to find awkward positions to hammer you from, and that it's easily faster than anything but an optimized IS light. Or a Ferret, which this thing outfights so hard it isn't even funny.

5x C-SPL, 4x C-MG (1.5t ammo), 1x DHS: Trading out the C-ERML for C-SPL removes the range from the 'Mech and trades it for devastating power as a close-range dagger fighter. You're down to a 30-point laser alpha rather than a 35-point one...but your lasers generate half the heat and have a 3-second cycle time even before you add C-SPL cooldown modules and Fast Fire. Add those? You're looking at 30 damage every 2.6-odd seconds (including burn time), on top of machine gun fire. G'head. Tell me you can't saw legs off like a champ with that kind of output, even if you have to get inside a hundred and sixty-five meters to do it.

5x C-ERSL, 4x C-MG (2t ammo), 2x DHS, 1x TC Mk. I): Split the difference between the range of the C-ERML version and the heat-efficient destruction of the C-SPL, with some extra machine gun rounds just because, and recreate the Ember's combat profile almost exactly except with the advantages of the Clan XL engine. Boost the C-ERSL with range module and TC Mk. I and you can start approaching the same damage/range profile as an IS ML, for the same heat, at half the tonnage, with less cycle time. My favorite theoretical sub-variant of this fit trades out the extra half-ton of MG rounds again in order to upgrade the CT laser to a medium, regaining the ability to hit out to eight hundred meters and thus annoy snipers without any real loss in close-range savagery.

Want more reasons why the Viper is your friend? Let's add in the pods from the Prime and Alpha fits as well, just to see what happens. This gives us a left-torso AMS system, a left-arm missile hardpoint, and also offers pods which replace the LT and RT ballistic mounts with a pair of energy mounts per torso. Now we can do:

9x C-ERSL, 3x DHS, 1x TC Mk. I): Hi there! NINE LASERS! Four in the arms and five in the torso, for forty-five damage moving 142 klicks with eight jump jets to get around with. And that's the practical version. With the combination of Charlie arms and CT and Alpha side torsos, you can do...

9x C-SPL, [armor shaved]): THE PARTYFLY. Drop half a ton of armor somewhere and deck out your cockpit in all the disco goodness, and realize that you have fifty-four damage every 2.6-odd seconds w/module and Fast Fire if you want it, Ghost Heat or no Ghost Heat. That, once again, moves 142kph with eight jump jets on a CXL engine.

Really, by this point there's no reason for me to keep going. The Viper (more specifically the Alpha and Charlie configurations, so of course watch us get the Prime, Bravo and Delta just so Piranha can play Trololo in their offices all day) suffers the same tonnage space limitations as the Summoner and the Ice Ferret, but does not, in any way, suffer from a deficit of hardpoints. The Viper would be the Clans' answer to Inner Sphere light 'Mechs carrying a profusion of small arms, finally satisfying the need for a fast Clan 'Mech that is also actually good.

IN SUMMATION (TL;DR for lazy people):

1.) We're never going to see the Arctic Cheetah. Never. Give up on those dreams because there's no way in Hell Piranha's ever going to give us the Clan OmniSpider and force Spheroids to deal with a Clan-tech ECM light moving at light 'Mech speeds with enough hardpoints to actually fight. Given this:

2.) The Viper would actually be strong competition to the Arctic Cheetah even if Piranha somehow lost their minds and implemented the Cheetah. With an enormous profusion of hardpoints available across its Alpha and Charlie fits, getting the correct Viper configurations would give the Clans what amounts to a direct translation of the Ember, except with more jump jets and the possibility of a 9E hardpoint pod mix and thus the ability to carry ALL THE SMALL LASERS.

3.) The Ice Ferret stinks due to mediocre hitboxes and, more importantly, a crippling paucity of hardpoints, which puts the Clans pretty much right back where they started – without any effective answer to IS light 'Mech's speed. The Viper is your one-stop solution for this issue.

4.) EIGHT JUMP JETS. HOVERJETS™ THIS, PIRANHA. I DARE YOU.

Clear as mud by now? I'm certain it is. That's all right. Questions and discussion time anyways.

#2 The Amazing Atomic Spaniel

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 11:35 AM

Someone should take the artists who drew it and drown them in a bucket.

#3 Dirty Starfish

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 11:36 AM

That is the ugliest ************ I have ever seen...

#4 Mcgral18

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 11:42 AM

Sadly, we aren't allowed any more good Clam mechs, and must suffer the mediocre, to straight up bad ones.


Wave III might include both, a nice cash grab.

#5 darkkterror

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 11:42 AM

Why you don't want the Viper:
Posted Image

#6 ShadowWolf Kell

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 11:44 AM

View PostSerial Peacemaker, on 04 January 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

That is the ugliest ************ I have ever seen...


That's because it's based off the same chassis as the Nova and has an even bigger nose. Yes, that's possible.

#7 1453 R

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 12:16 PM

View PostRocketDog, on 04 January 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Someone should take the artists who drew it and drown them in a bucket.

View PostSerial Peacemaker, on 04 January 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

That is the ugliest ************ I have ever seen...

View Postdarkkterror, on 04 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Why you don't want the Viper:


Points missed: ALL OF THEM.

There isn't a single OmniMech in the entire 3050 TRO that doesn't look completely dumb as hell, because they decided to go with those engineering-schematic layouts instead of proper art. Also I really don't care if it does wind up being hideous. I'm not trying to admire its sleek lines and svelte contours, I'm trying to get it in the game so I can completely wreck my enemies' lives with a swift and savage Clan 'Mech that is finally the equal of any lightning-striker Spheroid combat light.

Besides. At what point has Alex not dealt with Old Bad Art problems? Piranha's art assets folks are the one component of the company nobody has complained about ever. So c'mon. Quit trolling around.

View PostMcgral18, on 04 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Sadly, we aren't allowed any more good Clam mechs, and must suffer the mediocre, to straight up bad ones.


Wave III might include both, a nice cash grab.


I don't see how any prospective Wave III packs can not include the Viper, which is a plus. I still don't see them giving us the Arctic Cheetah. I mean c'mon, the Spheroids have the utter gall the claim that the Adder of all damn things is just fine and totally not garbage. Or...well, the Shperoids are basically out there telling everyone that Timber Wolves and Stormcrows touched them in bad places. Do you really want to see what they'd say if we got the OmniSpider?

Edited by 1453 R, 04 January 2015 - 12:21 PM.


#8 Chagatay

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 12:26 PM

View Postdarkkterror, on 04 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Why you don't want the Viper:
Posted Image


Don't know why that mech is called a viper or dragonfly for that matter......it looks kongish. Yeah.....definitely kongish. Maybe make it a hero and include a surat monkey with warhorn. Maybe a paintjob with some "goin bananas" quip and banana liek theme*. I see money. Lots of money.


* I love you Rak Wraithraiser (and of course all your turtle friends/enemies)
rakrakrak_by_ambibot
Posted Image

Edited by Chagatay, 04 January 2015 - 12:31 PM.


#9 Brody319

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 01:32 PM

Viper can burn forever in the pits of terra therma! I want the Piranha mech!
12 machine guns!

#10 Tristan Winter

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 01:43 PM

View PostMcgral18, on 04 January 2015 - 11:42 AM, said:

Sadly, we aren't allowed any more good Clam mechs, and must suffer the mediocre, to straight up bad ones.
Wave III might include both, a nice cash grab.

Exactly. Wait for PGI to come to the point where they really need the money.

If the history of this game has taught us anything, it's that we should expect power creep to continue until the end of days.

And when they've milked the 3050 mechs dry.... boom. Timber Wolf Mk. 2. with a custom PGI variant that has dual ECM.

Edited by Nicolai Kabrinsky, 04 January 2015 - 01:44 PM.


#11 Wildstreak

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 02:12 PM

Want to know why no one gets a Viper?
Read OP's post.

#12 Alpha Zulu Tango

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 02:13 PM

What I'm a bit sad about is that all these mechs (jenner, cicada, nova, the above if in game) which don't have traditional torso (arms connected to legs->no torso twist save a few degrees of gun traverse, but half the height!) weren't translated to MWO. I really liked the nova just how it was in MW2 : )

The difference in usefulness and general tactics could be somewhat referenced from ww2, ie. MBTs vs assault guns (no traditional turret). How well they would really work is a bit hard to see before testing, though. Think all the mentioned mechs half the height for detecting and targeting purposes. Of course they would be worse than twisting mechs in brawl but they would be different and thus unique type diversifying the game.

#13 Tennex

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 02:32 PM

you know this mech is going to be as big as the nova since it shares legs and arms.. its going to be completely useless

#14 Andi Nagasia

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 03:08 PM

so the Viper is what happens when,
a KitFox and a Nova make love?

Posted Image
(Viper VPR)

so a 40Ton mech, with a speed of 129kph, but only 8.5 free Tons,
the size of the Nova, but with 1 low KitFox arm, a mixed bag?

so NVA + KFX + Drugs + WildNight = Viper?
i think my math is about right?

Edit- Math

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 04 January 2015 - 03:15 PM.


#15 The Wakelord

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 04:33 PM

View PostWildstreak, on 04 January 2015 - 02:12 PM, said:

Want to know why no one gets a Viper?
Read OP's post.

Pretty much this. It's an ember but with IS LL instead of IS ML.

Only balancing factor is that Alex the art guy would end up making it as large as the Nova and therefore die constantly.

#16 LT. HARDCASE

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:06 PM

1. Do you really think the Arctic Cheetah is too good to even be in the game?

2. They'll probably give us a Battle Cobra instead.

#17 Navid A1

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:23 PM

Hehe...
why do you think mechs like maddog and king crab are for... to encourage you to avoid alacarte the HBR only and go for the full pack. None of the wave ii mechs have anything going for them in order encourage someone to buy them...for 120$... 120 !!!

maddog: popular mech that everyone wants, so lets win back the players who can afford the new pack to actually get the full pack.

king crab (before the resistance pack was announced): Hugely popular assault that everyone was asking for from the start. Founder program is over so there are two ways: wave i (for 240) and wave ii (for 120).

this way wave ii can actually sell and better clan mechs can be saved for another pack.!

that's what i think though... i hope i'm wrong.

#18 CycKath

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 06:24 PM

Yes to the Viper!

For the same reason I want the Flea. I want to see all 'Mechs in MWO....

#19 FupDup

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 07:41 PM

Seeing a 40 ton mech being scaled identical to the arguably oversized 50 ton Nova would be sad.

Yes, they will be scaled roughly the same, given their shared legs. We've already seen this with the Warhawk/Dire Wolf, the Timberwolf/Mad Dog, and Kit Fox/Adder. It's happened before and it will happen again.


Edited by FupDup, 04 January 2015 - 07:44 PM.


#20 Mcgral18

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Posted 04 January 2015 - 08:05 PM

View PostTennex, on 04 January 2015 - 02:32 PM, said:

you know this mech is going to be as big as the nova since it shares legs and arms.. its going to be completely useless


At least it has non insignificant torso mounts.





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