Basically Space Communists right?
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Clans
Started by Milocinia, Jan 08 2015 12:06 PM
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:06 PM
#2
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:51 PM
Actually I'm being semi-serious. So it's just me that sees them as commies then?
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:00 PM
More like stratocracy.
I can see where you get the commie but its a bit of misnomer.
Regardless of its shades of means/needs cross leveling, or its intended origins, Clan society are governments run to varying degrees by their militaries (with arguable exceptions such as the Spirit Cats...but ultimately even the spiritually guided performed their leadership via military mechanism, so its essentially the same thing).
Stratocracies arent military dictatorships or juntas either....they are governance by the military via enshrined law or tradition, and the clans mirror this well (see Oathmasters and Loremasters as additional mechanisms of this).
While caste systemic to varying degrees, each caste supports the military at the top and operates with some form of meritocracy, whether legitimate or completely bastardized.
I can see where you get the commie but its a bit of misnomer.
Regardless of its shades of means/needs cross leveling, or its intended origins, Clan society are governments run to varying degrees by their militaries (with arguable exceptions such as the Spirit Cats...but ultimately even the spiritually guided performed their leadership via military mechanism, so its essentially the same thing).
Stratocracies arent military dictatorships or juntas either....they are governance by the military via enshrined law or tradition, and the clans mirror this well (see Oathmasters and Loremasters as additional mechanisms of this).
While caste systemic to varying degrees, each caste supports the military at the top and operates with some form of meritocracy, whether legitimate or completely bastardized.
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:01 PM
Kyocera, on 08 January 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:
Actually I'm being semi-serious. So it's just me that sees them as commies then?
Perhaps you need to re-evaluate what you believe communism to be.
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:07 PM
I DO NOT, repeat DO NOT claim this as my own in any way, shape or form. I found this sometime ago in another thread & I kick myself mentally everytime stuff like this comes up that I did not take note of the guy who wrote this. He has a clarity of thought, I can only dream of. These are HIS words, not mine.
Quote
The Blood of Kerensky trilogy is probably not the best source book for Clan Wolf or any other clan. A lot of what passes for Clan behavior, traditions and law in the original FASA books was retconned later on in the Roc books as the clans where more developed. I'm not sure that this was Stackpole really being wrong, but rather that at the time the outlines for those novels where laid out Clan society wasn't fully mapped out. At best he was a little sloppy with regard to keeping Clan characters 'in character'.
As for freeborn vs trueborn it is not really broken down between Crusader and Warden as much as you think and neither does the severity of the caste system fall along those lines.
First the Clans overall have the idea that Trueborns are superior warriors. This concept does not have to be inherently prejudiced as some clans interpret the idea. First it is a fact that Trueborns are genetically engineered to have better sight, strength, reflexes and possibly intelligence then a normal human. Even temperament is genetically controlled as evidenced when Falcon scientists secretly mixed in Wolf genetic material, creating a generation of less impulsive, more contemplative warriors.
When it comes to choosing who can become a warrior and what resources will be invested in them the Trueborns always come first - this is not immediately because of prejudice but because of rational thought. To arbitrarily use a less physically fit candidate is both strategically unsound and puts the candidate and their fellow soldiers at deadly risk. Today's armies already do the same thing so for example if you need thick glasses you will never fly in the US Air Force. Militaries today and in the 31st century can't afford to be politically correct when it comes to the physical abilities of their soldiers. A Clan mechwarrior will fight one on one with another Clan mechwarrior and so he or she must be on the same level of physical ability (Clans generally don't practice Soviet/PLA human wave attacks or victory through mass attrition, with the possible exception of Solahma units and the Jade Falcon strategy during the Refusal War). In some clans Freeborn are not allowed to serve as warriors, however the arguments for this are very similar to the arguments in today's militaries about women serving on combat roles.
The second common practice of the Clans is the caste system. Nicholas Kerensky correctly identified that when other methods have failed it always falls to the warriors to resolve disputes. Rather then suffer wasteful warfare by allowing politicians to constantly create disputes because they don't have to suffer the consequences, he put the warriors at the top. In this system the people who bear responsibility for creating disputes are also the ones who must shoulder the burden of resolving them, either by diplomacy or combat.
While the rigid caste system, where a person's caste is for life, is typically viewed as a kind of glass ceiling against those born into lower castes it is really meant to work the other way around. When Aleksandr Kerensky first settled the Pentagon Worlds he had to demobilize a large portion of the military, since you can't support a society made up almost entirely of soldiers. This caused extreme conflict as these warriors did not like being farmers and laborers and sought to force their way back into their old positions. Nicholas Kerensky identified this and so he created the rigid caste system - once a person tested into a caste they stayed there. His target in eliminating arbitrary social mobility was to enforce the idea that each member of Clan society must make themselves happy in the role that they tested into, rather they creating waste and discord trying to change their role.
This puts us in a good position to tackle the next myth about Clan society, that warriors are Trueborn and the lower castes are reserved for Freeborn. While in some clans the warriors are exclusively Trueborn (we will get into that later), the lower castes are made up of a mix of Trueborn and Freeborn members. A batch of Trueborn's created together (a Sibko) number around 100 and will spend the first 20 years of their lives training to be warriors. However many of those Trueborns will wash out (some will also die in accidents due to the Clan's belief in real risk) and when their Trial of Position comes to become a warrior only 2 to 6 of the Sibko will be left, and not all of them pass the trial.
Think about those numbers. For every 3 or 4 Trueborns entering the warrior caste there will be something like 80 or 90 Trueborns entering a lower caste (many Mechwarrior and Aerospace engineered Trueborn will test into a matching position in the Technician caste due to their extensive training with the equipment, a few will test into the Scientist caste and the rest will test into lower castes. Elementals who wash out get the short end of the stick, most wind up in the Laborer caste since they where trained for pure physical performance). And those numbers are before you factor in the much shorter lifespan in the warrior caste, where most are dead by 40.
So you can see that maybe only 1% of Trueborns in the Clan are actually serving in the Warrior caste - the rigidity of the caste system ensures those Trueborns who test out accept their place serving in a lower caste despite spending up to two decades of their life to become a warrior (unless your name is Aidan).
Further while they may be 'lower' castes they are not without a say in Clan society. Each caste has it's own hierarchy and at the top of each caste is a leader. While the overall leadership of the clan always falls to a warrior elected Khan (remember that part about who resolves disputes) each caste's leader: the Scientist-General, Merchant Factor, Master Technician and Senior Laborer can be seen as something between a congressman and a minister, making decisions internal to their caste and then reporting to, advising and petitioning the Khan (like a President) regarding issues outside their caste. For example the Merchant Factor might petition the Khan asking the warrior caste to fight a Trial of Possession for a textile factory controlled by another clan. If the Khan agrees he will order the warrior caste to fight that battle and if they win the factory becomes the property of the merchant caste.
Many in the lower castes are happy with this arrangement - the warriors live short and brutal lives and take all the risks for the clan, while the lower castemen reap the rewards in exchange for being one step down on the totem. How large a gap in power there is depends on the clan, and if the gap is too large the clan will break.
This happened notably in the case of Clan Widowmaker. Their warrior caste ignored the wishes of the lower castes and treated them like subjects, leading to a major dispute with the Merchant caste. As with any continuously escalated dispute (Clan or otherwise) it was eventually resolved in a military manner with the death of many in the Merchant caste. The Clan Grand Council demanded an explanation and the Widowmakers tried to blame their rivals, the Wolves, for giving more say in Clan affairs to their own merchant caste and thus upsetting the Widowmaker merchants. However the Grand Council rejected that explanation and decided that the Widowmaker warriors had failed as leaders. They voted for a Trial of Absorption which due to circumstances (the death of Nicholas Kerensky at the hands of the Widowmakers) resulted in the entire Widowmaker warrior caste being killed off. The other Widowmaker castes, not being warriors and thus not having to bear the risks of warfare, where peacefully absorbed, mostly into Clan Wolf who had won the bid.
On the other end of the spectrum for that incident might be Clan Nova Cat. While visions of a reborn Star League helped it was their own merchant caste, who had so much power they had their own warships, who where the real cause behind the Nova Cats vote to invade the Inner Sphere and act as a Crusader clan. The merchant caste wanted to open more markets and saw an invasion of the Inner Sphere, and thus addition of those worlds to the Clans, as a means to that end. Their Merchant Factor used his power in Nova Cat politics to steer the alignment of the entire clan in the great debate.
But back to Freeborn vs Trueborn. As I've already explained most of the Trueborn clansmen actually serve in the lower castes. I've also explained that the preference for Trueborn in the warrior caste is originally out of practical concern because of their typically superior physical ability.
However each Clan has their own opinion of how big a gulf there is between Trueborns and Freeborns. Clan Jade Falcon, in many ways the leading Crusader Clan, is at the same time accepting of Freeborns into the warrior caste so long as they pass the same tests. Under Falcon Khan Marthe Pryde they broke many barriers in how Freeborns might serve, including a Trinary composed of and led by a Freeborn and a Freeborn winning a bloodname (though under normal circumstances a Freeborn would not be able to compete for a bloodname, since they would not have a direct lineage to that bloodnames founder).
By comparison the Steel Viper's (which despite being a Crusader Clan has many Wardens, in the same way that the Warden Wolf Clan has many Crusaders) are strongly opposed and do not allow any Freeborn warriors, which lead to a feud with the Jade Falcons. Their viewpoint on Freeborns is in many ways similar to the view point of one of today's conservatives regarding women serving in the military
Other Clans have more elaborate views. The Hell's Horses place a lot of weight on personal performance, leading to a situation where members of any caste, manner of birth or age are respected so long as they are good at what they do. Even the Khan of the Hell's Horses would consider it a shame against himself and the clan if he disrespected a laborer who performed well.
And then there are a few clan warriors who really are jerks with a power complex, namely the Smoke Jaguars whose warrior caste over the years became more and more self sure about their own superiority. They would not allow Freeborns to serve, treated the lower castes with disrespect and killed enemy civilians. This attitude ultimately poisoned their warrior caste - this predestined for glory view created a situation where warriors did not act honorably, rising using politics and by pushing down other warriors with lies. Ultimately a Jaguar warrior had enough and defected to the Inner Sphere with the intent of euthanizing the warrior caste which he believed had strayed too far from Kerensky's vision. He provided the information for Task Force Serpent which, thanks in part to even more corruption and delusions of grandeur hindering their defenses, lead to the destruction of the entire Jaguar military caste.
Of course the Wolves are lenient towards Freeborn warriors, though this comes more out of their pragmatic thinking as well as the liberal attitude toward change and adaption of Ulric Kerensky then any direct opinion on Freeborn worthiness. The FASA novels perhaps overstate just how lenient the Wolf Clan is as a whole. The later novels show that after his death the remaining Wolves in Clan space, while still remaining just as pragmatic, show the more traditional view of Freeborns being less fit for combat then Trueborns. They still serve in the Wolf ranks but in lesser numbers and only to bolster their forces as needed rather then in the political correct equal opportunity of Ulric and the FASA novels.
As for freeborn vs trueborn it is not really broken down between Crusader and Warden as much as you think and neither does the severity of the caste system fall along those lines.
First the Clans overall have the idea that Trueborns are superior warriors. This concept does not have to be inherently prejudiced as some clans interpret the idea. First it is a fact that Trueborns are genetically engineered to have better sight, strength, reflexes and possibly intelligence then a normal human. Even temperament is genetically controlled as evidenced when Falcon scientists secretly mixed in Wolf genetic material, creating a generation of less impulsive, more contemplative warriors.
When it comes to choosing who can become a warrior and what resources will be invested in them the Trueborns always come first - this is not immediately because of prejudice but because of rational thought. To arbitrarily use a less physically fit candidate is both strategically unsound and puts the candidate and their fellow soldiers at deadly risk. Today's armies already do the same thing so for example if you need thick glasses you will never fly in the US Air Force. Militaries today and in the 31st century can't afford to be politically correct when it comes to the physical abilities of their soldiers. A Clan mechwarrior will fight one on one with another Clan mechwarrior and so he or she must be on the same level of physical ability (Clans generally don't practice Soviet/PLA human wave attacks or victory through mass attrition, with the possible exception of Solahma units and the Jade Falcon strategy during the Refusal War). In some clans Freeborn are not allowed to serve as warriors, however the arguments for this are very similar to the arguments in today's militaries about women serving on combat roles.
The second common practice of the Clans is the caste system. Nicholas Kerensky correctly identified that when other methods have failed it always falls to the warriors to resolve disputes. Rather then suffer wasteful warfare by allowing politicians to constantly create disputes because they don't have to suffer the consequences, he put the warriors at the top. In this system the people who bear responsibility for creating disputes are also the ones who must shoulder the burden of resolving them, either by diplomacy or combat.
While the rigid caste system, where a person's caste is for life, is typically viewed as a kind of glass ceiling against those born into lower castes it is really meant to work the other way around. When Aleksandr Kerensky first settled the Pentagon Worlds he had to demobilize a large portion of the military, since you can't support a society made up almost entirely of soldiers. This caused extreme conflict as these warriors did not like being farmers and laborers and sought to force their way back into their old positions. Nicholas Kerensky identified this and so he created the rigid caste system - once a person tested into a caste they stayed there. His target in eliminating arbitrary social mobility was to enforce the idea that each member of Clan society must make themselves happy in the role that they tested into, rather they creating waste and discord trying to change their role.
This puts us in a good position to tackle the next myth about Clan society, that warriors are Trueborn and the lower castes are reserved for Freeborn. While in some clans the warriors are exclusively Trueborn (we will get into that later), the lower castes are made up of a mix of Trueborn and Freeborn members. A batch of Trueborn's created together (a Sibko) number around 100 and will spend the first 20 years of their lives training to be warriors. However many of those Trueborns will wash out (some will also die in accidents due to the Clan's belief in real risk) and when their Trial of Position comes to become a warrior only 2 to 6 of the Sibko will be left, and not all of them pass the trial.
Think about those numbers. For every 3 or 4 Trueborns entering the warrior caste there will be something like 80 or 90 Trueborns entering a lower caste (many Mechwarrior and Aerospace engineered Trueborn will test into a matching position in the Technician caste due to their extensive training with the equipment, a few will test into the Scientist caste and the rest will test into lower castes. Elementals who wash out get the short end of the stick, most wind up in the Laborer caste since they where trained for pure physical performance). And those numbers are before you factor in the much shorter lifespan in the warrior caste, where most are dead by 40.
So you can see that maybe only 1% of Trueborns in the Clan are actually serving in the Warrior caste - the rigidity of the caste system ensures those Trueborns who test out accept their place serving in a lower caste despite spending up to two decades of their life to become a warrior (unless your name is Aidan).
Further while they may be 'lower' castes they are not without a say in Clan society. Each caste has it's own hierarchy and at the top of each caste is a leader. While the overall leadership of the clan always falls to a warrior elected Khan (remember that part about who resolves disputes) each caste's leader: the Scientist-General, Merchant Factor, Master Technician and Senior Laborer can be seen as something between a congressman and a minister, making decisions internal to their caste and then reporting to, advising and petitioning the Khan (like a President) regarding issues outside their caste. For example the Merchant Factor might petition the Khan asking the warrior caste to fight a Trial of Possession for a textile factory controlled by another clan. If the Khan agrees he will order the warrior caste to fight that battle and if they win the factory becomes the property of the merchant caste.
Many in the lower castes are happy with this arrangement - the warriors live short and brutal lives and take all the risks for the clan, while the lower castemen reap the rewards in exchange for being one step down on the totem. How large a gap in power there is depends on the clan, and if the gap is too large the clan will break.
This happened notably in the case of Clan Widowmaker. Their warrior caste ignored the wishes of the lower castes and treated them like subjects, leading to a major dispute with the Merchant caste. As with any continuously escalated dispute (Clan or otherwise) it was eventually resolved in a military manner with the death of many in the Merchant caste. The Clan Grand Council demanded an explanation and the Widowmakers tried to blame their rivals, the Wolves, for giving more say in Clan affairs to their own merchant caste and thus upsetting the Widowmaker merchants. However the Grand Council rejected that explanation and decided that the Widowmaker warriors had failed as leaders. They voted for a Trial of Absorption which due to circumstances (the death of Nicholas Kerensky at the hands of the Widowmakers) resulted in the entire Widowmaker warrior caste being killed off. The other Widowmaker castes, not being warriors and thus not having to bear the risks of warfare, where peacefully absorbed, mostly into Clan Wolf who had won the bid.
On the other end of the spectrum for that incident might be Clan Nova Cat. While visions of a reborn Star League helped it was their own merchant caste, who had so much power they had their own warships, who where the real cause behind the Nova Cats vote to invade the Inner Sphere and act as a Crusader clan. The merchant caste wanted to open more markets and saw an invasion of the Inner Sphere, and thus addition of those worlds to the Clans, as a means to that end. Their Merchant Factor used his power in Nova Cat politics to steer the alignment of the entire clan in the great debate.
But back to Freeborn vs Trueborn. As I've already explained most of the Trueborn clansmen actually serve in the lower castes. I've also explained that the preference for Trueborn in the warrior caste is originally out of practical concern because of their typically superior physical ability.
However each Clan has their own opinion of how big a gulf there is between Trueborns and Freeborns. Clan Jade Falcon, in many ways the leading Crusader Clan, is at the same time accepting of Freeborns into the warrior caste so long as they pass the same tests. Under Falcon Khan Marthe Pryde they broke many barriers in how Freeborns might serve, including a Trinary composed of and led by a Freeborn and a Freeborn winning a bloodname (though under normal circumstances a Freeborn would not be able to compete for a bloodname, since they would not have a direct lineage to that bloodnames founder).
By comparison the Steel Viper's (which despite being a Crusader Clan has many Wardens, in the same way that the Warden Wolf Clan has many Crusaders) are strongly opposed and do not allow any Freeborn warriors, which lead to a feud with the Jade Falcons. Their viewpoint on Freeborns is in many ways similar to the view point of one of today's conservatives regarding women serving in the military
Other Clans have more elaborate views. The Hell's Horses place a lot of weight on personal performance, leading to a situation where members of any caste, manner of birth or age are respected so long as they are good at what they do. Even the Khan of the Hell's Horses would consider it a shame against himself and the clan if he disrespected a laborer who performed well.
And then there are a few clan warriors who really are jerks with a power complex, namely the Smoke Jaguars whose warrior caste over the years became more and more self sure about their own superiority. They would not allow Freeborns to serve, treated the lower castes with disrespect and killed enemy civilians. This attitude ultimately poisoned their warrior caste - this predestined for glory view created a situation where warriors did not act honorably, rising using politics and by pushing down other warriors with lies. Ultimately a Jaguar warrior had enough and defected to the Inner Sphere with the intent of euthanizing the warrior caste which he believed had strayed too far from Kerensky's vision. He provided the information for Task Force Serpent which, thanks in part to even more corruption and delusions of grandeur hindering their defenses, lead to the destruction of the entire Jaguar military caste.
Of course the Wolves are lenient towards Freeborn warriors, though this comes more out of their pragmatic thinking as well as the liberal attitude toward change and adaption of Ulric Kerensky then any direct opinion on Freeborn worthiness. The FASA novels perhaps overstate just how lenient the Wolf Clan is as a whole. The later novels show that after his death the remaining Wolves in Clan space, while still remaining just as pragmatic, show the more traditional view of Freeborns being less fit for combat then Trueborns. They still serve in the Wolf ranks but in lesser numbers and only to bolster their forces as needed rather then in the political correct equal opportunity of Ulric and the FASA novels.
Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 08 January 2015 - 01:16 PM.
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:15 PM
Excellent detail that further illustrates....stratocracy 
#7
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:20 PM
They are a military junta with socialist economy (except diamond shark) but I would say thier honoring of tradition and Darwinism makes them more extreme right not really the equalitarian society like communism was suppose to be in theory
Edited by Grimwill, 08 January 2015 - 01:20 PM.
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:24 PM
Not a junta. Look up stratocracy and you will see the Clans pretty clearly.
Juntas are by committee....while the Khans have subordinate leaders, they do not run by committee. Additionay they are commonly associated with uprisings, coup d'etat etc. Clans are 3p0 years removed from anything resembling such impermanence.
Juntas are by committee....while the Khans have subordinate leaders, they do not run by committee. Additionay they are commonly associated with uprisings, coup d'etat etc. Clans are 3p0 years removed from anything resembling such impermanence.
#9
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:33 PM
This must be the twilight zone. I never thought I would say this. I have to agree with Marack here Lukoi. The Clans are run by committee. The Clan Councils & the Grand Council run the Clans.
Edited by Jaroth Corbett, 08 January 2015 - 01:33 PM.
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:33 PM
Kyocera, on 08 January 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:
Basically Space Communists right?
They are essentially a communist meritocracy run by a military dictatorship.
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Posted 08 January 2015 - 05:09 PM
Grimwill, on 08 January 2015 - 01:20 PM, said:
They are a military junta with socialist economy (except diamond shark) but I would say thier honoring of tradition and Darwinism makes them more extreme right not really the equalitarian society like communism was suppose to be in theory
It was the socialist type economy which made me wonder.
Not that most of the IS houses are really much "better". Thanks for the infos.
I wonder if the time the story was conceived had something to do with how the clans were envisioned, during the cold war and all that.
Edited by Kyocera, 08 January 2015 - 05:12 PM.
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 02:51 AM
Military socialism is called fascism. They are largely socialist; community held goods, but the goods, resources and culture are all focused on supporting the military to fight against 'outsiders' and a strong focus on cultural purity and how those dirty 'Others' (the IS) are inherently inferior and must be brought to heel by military might.
That's pretty much fascism in a nutshell. There may be individual clans that vary from that by degrees but as a given rule...
yeah. They're fascists and slavers. People are generally property and resources unless they are military caste.
That's pretty much fascism in a nutshell. There may be individual clans that vary from that by degrees but as a given rule...
yeah. They're fascists and slavers. People are generally property and resources unless they are military caste.
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 05:59 AM
I do not want to write a long text, so i will try to be short..
The FedSuns are all about freedom. I guess they spend a lot on their military because they can afford it, quiaff? And i guess they are so generous that they offer to use their military might toseize a smaller nation free half of the oppresed Liao citizens?
And let us get back to the whole Inner Sphere. Such a civilization it was! Sure, decades of warfare with use of any kind of highly devastating weaponry is a terrible thing, but they were forced do it.. The FedSuns could not let Minoru Kurita (if i am not mistaken) become the new First Prince, quineg? The Suns' Prince was so much of a better leader for humanity! Too bad every other Great House thought the same of its leader..
After three wars, they had almost forgotten what they were fighting for, but who cares?
And well, the IS leaders were so nostalgic... They missed so much the old 21st Century times that they blasted themselves back several centuries back in terms of technology and infrastructures, reducing themselves to use every bit of scrap metal salvaged in the battlefield to keep their 'Mechs and vehicles operational. But one has to do the best with what is available, quiaff?
Let us not talk about mothers embracing their terrorized children during a battle in their city. Seriously, such a cute family getting burned in their house by a stray laser shot that missed its intended target would be such an awesome scene for a dramatic holo-movie! Oh, wait, we cannot do that. Our citizens refuse war as a means to solve international disputes. We love peace, after all!
Now, the Clans broke our peace! The last rebellions on conquered Liao planets had finally been all repressed, and now they come from the other side of the Sphere! Will this peace-loving nation ever know peace?
They breed human beings to be bigger and stronger or with better reflexes and sight.. This is not fair!
These war-loving savages thrive in warfare, they even glorify it! They even have rules for warfare, for them it is just a game! They meet at some place, far from any city or infrastructure, and fight a "fair" fight! It is absolutely horrible! I just wish the Clans would fight inside cities and even bomb them with their fighters and WarShips, so their citizens would all die! DIE CLANNERS! Our peace-loving citizens cannot stand the sight of these barbarians!
I also wonder how could have that crazy man, Nicholas Kerensky, created such a weird society. I mean, the SLDF in exile troops were from the Inner Sphere, our same civilization! How could have they started just another bloody civil war? And seriously, after they blasted themselves into misery, they were even tired of total warfare?! Now, if those Davion colonies would have freed the Liao colonies as the FedSuns have done in the Inner Sphere.. Instead, Nicholas creates a society based on warriors.. From the remnants of an army! Who could have ever thought of it?! And it even thrived! How could it be that while we were back to 21st Century tech, those Clan barbarians have developed new tech , even if they were mostly focused on military tech?
Stability? What a stupid word. It is all the Snakes and Liaos' fault! They should have purged the colonies from them to start a new society based on freedom and peace! What a mistake he did.
Talking about society.. They reward the strong and force the others to less prestigious ranks and roles. Basically, who wins an arm wrestle is right! And he could even win a Bloodname! In the Inner Sphere, these barbarian traditions would have no place. We have nobilty: a small number of families are so generous to bear the responsability of governing for all the citizens of their nations! They hold the power seats so the common people do not have to worry about it. Our farmers will have all the time to manage their farm and make it thrive so they could pass it to their children and grow the food that the nobles eat at their rich banquets. After all, it would not be fair if the nobles did not get anything for their work and sweat..
At least even an ignorant farmer on a backwater, low-tech planet could choose to do something else, become something more; if he so choosed, he could become an universitary teacher! In the Clans everyone is assigned to a caste by their Clan! How could you force someone to do a job based simply on what they are good at doing? It does not make any sense!
Should we talk about freedom? In many Clans, especially Smoke Jaguar, there is little to no freedom of expressions. They do not even have almost any entertainment for their people! Yes, the Diamond Sharks invented that thing, Chatterweb. But come on! A network to chat and share news and opinions? How stupid is that! All their TV shows are either military tech documentaries, news programs glorifying the victories of their Clan and downplaying their defeats, and things like that. They even have a.. a.. I can hardly say it.. A children show. But not a normal children show, like those in the Inner Sphere. It is a show that tries to inculcate in the young watchers the values of their society! What is this weird stuff about?
Of course, some IS nations have some pretty strict censure as well, like the Draconis Combine and the Capellan Confederation. In the freedom-loving FedSuns, any newspaper or indipendent blogger could say that maybe, after all, theinvasion liberation of the Capellan Confederation was a mistake, and that those people deserved to live under the tiranny of their sovereign nation. I wonder why i heard of no one saying it aloud .. But of course! Why should someone complain about the great victories of our peace-loving nation? The FedSuns are the best place in the stars to be born. Its citizens should be both proud and relieved to live under the Sun-and-Sword banner!
Seriously, how could someone not agree that the Inner Sphere is so much better than the bloody Clans?! We are totally different from them, and they are totally different from us. Aliens, i dare to say.
Ok, i failed at being short lol. Well, i was inspired today; sarcasm is so trendy these days #iamCharlie
Wow, this is so well written! I will quote this every time i need to reply to this kind of threads
I think he made only a single mistake: according to the Jade Phoenix trilogy novels, freeborn cadets in CJF did not face exactly the same tests trouborns had to face.
The FedSuns are all about freedom. I guess they spend a lot on their military because they can afford it, quiaff? And i guess they are so generous that they offer to use their military might to
And let us get back to the whole Inner Sphere. Such a civilization it was! Sure, decades of warfare with use of any kind of highly devastating weaponry is a terrible thing, but they were forced do it.. The FedSuns could not let Minoru Kurita (if i am not mistaken) become the new First Prince, quineg? The Suns' Prince was so much of a better leader for humanity! Too bad every other Great House thought the same of its leader..
After three wars, they had almost forgotten what they were fighting for, but who cares?
And well, the IS leaders were so nostalgic... They missed so much the old 21st Century times that they blasted themselves back several centuries back in terms of technology and infrastructures, reducing themselves to use every bit of scrap metal salvaged in the battlefield to keep their 'Mechs and vehicles operational. But one has to do the best with what is available, quiaff?
Let us not talk about mothers embracing their terrorized children during a battle in their city. Seriously, such a cute family getting burned in their house by a stray laser shot that missed its intended target would be such an awesome scene for a dramatic holo-movie! Oh, wait, we cannot do that. Our citizens refuse war as a means to solve international disputes. We love peace, after all!
Now, the Clans broke our peace! The last rebellions on conquered Liao planets had finally been all repressed, and now they come from the other side of the Sphere! Will this peace-loving nation ever know peace?
They breed human beings to be bigger and stronger or with better reflexes and sight.. This is not fair!
These war-loving savages thrive in warfare, they even glorify it! They even have rules for warfare, for them it is just a game! They meet at some place, far from any city or infrastructure, and fight a "fair" fight! It is absolutely horrible! I just wish the Clans would fight inside cities and even bomb them with their fighters and WarShips, so their citizens would all die! DIE CLANNERS! Our peace-loving citizens cannot stand the sight of these barbarians!
I also wonder how could have that crazy man, Nicholas Kerensky, created such a weird society. I mean, the SLDF in exile troops were from the Inner Sphere, our same civilization! How could have they started just another bloody civil war? And seriously, after they blasted themselves into misery, they were even tired of total warfare?! Now, if those Davion colonies would have freed the Liao colonies as the FedSuns have done in the Inner Sphere.. Instead, Nicholas creates a society based on warriors.. From the remnants of an army! Who could have ever thought of it?! And it even thrived! How could it be that while we were back to 21st Century tech, those Clan barbarians have developed new tech , even if they were mostly focused on military tech?
Stability? What a stupid word. It is all the Snakes and Liaos' fault! They should have purged the colonies from them to start a new society based on freedom and peace! What a mistake he did.
Talking about society.. They reward the strong and force the others to less prestigious ranks and roles. Basically, who wins an arm wrestle is right! And he could even win a Bloodname! In the Inner Sphere, these barbarian traditions would have no place. We have nobilty: a small number of families are so generous to bear the responsability of governing for all the citizens of their nations! They hold the power seats so the common people do not have to worry about it. Our farmers will have all the time to manage their farm and make it thrive so they could pass it to their children and grow the food that the nobles eat at their rich banquets. After all, it would not be fair if the nobles did not get anything for their work and sweat..
At least even an ignorant farmer on a backwater, low-tech planet could choose to do something else, become something more; if he so choosed, he could become an universitary teacher! In the Clans everyone is assigned to a caste by their Clan! How could you force someone to do a job based simply on what they are good at doing? It does not make any sense!
Should we talk about freedom? In many Clans, especially Smoke Jaguar, there is little to no freedom of expressions. They do not even have almost any entertainment for their people! Yes, the Diamond Sharks invented that thing, Chatterweb. But come on! A network to chat and share news and opinions? How stupid is that! All their TV shows are either military tech documentaries, news programs glorifying the victories of their Clan and downplaying their defeats, and things like that. They even have a.. a.. I can hardly say it.. A children show. But not a normal children show, like those in the Inner Sphere. It is a show that tries to inculcate in the young watchers the values of their society! What is this weird stuff about?
Of course, some IS nations have some pretty strict censure as well, like the Draconis Combine and the Capellan Confederation. In the freedom-loving FedSuns, any newspaper or indipendent blogger could say that maybe, after all, the
Seriously, how could someone not agree that the Inner Sphere is so much better than the bloody Clans?! We are totally different from them, and they are totally different from us. Aliens, i dare to say.
Ok, i failed at being short lol. Well, i was inspired today; sarcasm is so trendy these days #iamCharlie
Jaroth Corbett, on 08 January 2015 - 01:07 PM, said:
I DO NOT, repeat DO NOT claim this as my own in any way, shape or form. I found this sometime ago in another thread & I kick myself mentally everytime stuff like this comes up that I did not take note of the guy who wrote this. He has a clarity of thought, I can only dream of. These are HIS words, not mine.
Wow, this is so well written! I will quote this every time i need to reply to this kind of threads
I think he made only a single mistake: according to the Jade Phoenix trilogy novels, freeborn cadets in CJF did not face exactly the same tests trouborns had to face.
Edited by CyclonerM, 09 January 2015 - 06:08 AM.
#14
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 06:06 AM
Props CyclonerM, good entertaining read from a lore perspective. 
#15
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 09:21 AM
Noesis, on 09 January 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:
C&C 4
Really, you haaaad to post that garbage of a game.. Thats not even a real command and conquer game. thanks for making me puke a bit and thanks to EA ****** the franchise.
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 09:54 AM
LastKhan, on 09 January 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:
Really, you haaaad to post that garbage of a game.. Thats not even a real command and conquer game. thanks for making me puke a bit and thanks to EA ****** the franchise.
Three and four were a hollow bastardised shell of what WESTWOOD started in 1995, EA has my eternal scorn for ruining that great franchise and they will never see a dime of my money for any future products.
#18
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 10:16 AM
I don't know .... I give people the NOD and the response from some is no? Life is Just not fair.
Oh well: C'est la vie, mais pas que c'est la mort? Ou est Monsieur Shakespeare?
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I still today think the original games of 1 and 2 with the management of tiberium collection where the best of the franchise and agree that the move to remove these RTS considerations ruined the game. Logistics and planning can be important.
The above video was merely a comical popcorn example of the topic material being discussed at the time however.
Oh well: C'est la vie, mais pas que c'est la mort? Ou est Monsieur Shakespeare?
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I still today think the original games of 1 and 2 with the management of tiberium collection where the best of the franchise and agree that the move to remove these RTS considerations ruined the game. Logistics and planning can be important.
The above video was merely a comical popcorn example of the topic material being discussed at the time however.
#19
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 10:20 AM
I know you were making it as a point and i love NOD as well as the older C&C games (i own all of them . )
but were there no alternatives, really? you posting that is the equivalent of you farting loudly in a crowded room of people. Everyone knows you did it. xD
. )but were there no alternatives, really? you posting that is the equivalent of you farting loudly in a crowded room of people. Everyone knows you did it. xD
Edited by LastKhan, 09 January 2015 - 12:02 PM.
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Posted 09 January 2015 - 10:25 AM
Its a more light hearted version to apply in the context of a fictional gaming community. I'm not going to post RL scare material and serious topics of discussion that could cause people serious offence.
Gas masks and other filters applied as a courtesy for the children. I even applied the phrase (for shiggles) to even say that I wasn't using it as a serious reference.
But I guess I was more conerned with the posts topic than the posting behaviour. I'll leave the policing of the forums to the mods and those who seem to report these things. Might be linked, but indeterminable really.
Gas masks and other filters applied as a courtesy for the children. I even applied the phrase (for shiggles) to even say that I wasn't using it as a serious reference.
But I guess I was more conerned with the posts topic than the posting behaviour. I'll leave the policing of the forums to the mods and those who seem to report these things. Might be linked, but indeterminable really.
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