319 replies to this topic

[EightBitKnight]

Soo i'm this has been posted about before but something needs to be done about spawn camping. whats the point of playing if they just charge the drop zone and kill you before you drop again. I'll grant that you shouldn't let that happen but killing the first wave and rushing the spawn? poor form and a s*** time. defenders should die for leaving their zone similar to leaving the battlefield. I don't mind losing to a premade you can learn something, I understand an end game rush, but killing wave one and rushing the spawn should not be allowed as a tactic. I will stop playing CW if continues to be, after all i'm not really playing at that point now I'm I?

edit: this topic has moved well beyond this first post please take sometime and read the comments below, many issues have been raised and talked about already as well as points/opinions being clarified/more filled out, Thank you.

Edited by EightBitKnight, 17 January 2015 - 12:32 AM.

[Roadbeer]

Sigh,

And people wonder why I'm salty on the forums.

[Harathan]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

Sigh,

And people wonder why I'm salty on the forums.

Ok, but to be fair he's got a bit of a point. Defenders rushing out of spawn because the attackers are slow or stalling, fine. Deliberate spawncamping straight off the bat? I dunno mate, I have to draw the line there. I'm totally for giving the Defenders the option to be aggressive, but not if the result is a spawn camp.

Edited by Harathan, 13 January 2015 - 12:21 PM.

[Sudden]

what is wrong with you people this is a tactic. crying over stupid stuff has become the norm. adapt or die

[John Winters]

I do agree to some extent, how ever drops should be made into a off limit zone so they have time to form up, after all when dropping on a planet you secure your drop zone and move out from there.

[Harathan]

Sudden, on 13 January 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

what is wrong with you people this is a tactic. crying over stupid stuff has become the norm. adapt or die

Defenders being aggresive and taking the fight to the Attackers is a tactic. It's viable, there are counters, it prevents the game being stalemate. Spawn camping isn't a tactic, it's being a ****. Go try it in an FPS and see if how quickly you get called out for it. It's a crappy thing to do whatever the medium and has never been able to be justified as "it's a tactic".

Edited by Harathan, 13 January 2015 - 12:28 PM.

[EightBitKnight]

how do you adapt when you drop and die? no time or place to regroup just drop and get shot up. can't run since you just get shot down trying to escape, can run down a path only one open gate?
You tell me how to adapt to that.

[Roadbeer]

Harathan, on 13 January 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Ok, but to be fair he's got a bit of a point. Defenders rushing out of spawn because the attackers are slow or stalling, fine. Deliberate spawncamping straight off the bat? I dunno mate, I have to draw the line there. I'm totally for giving the Defenders the option to be aggressive, but not if the result is a spawn camp.

Oh, I agree with the spawn camping part of it, but the whole "defenders should die if they leave the base", blah, blah, blah...

I was referring to the general posting abilities of the average forumite who come here to whine about something they perceive as "unfair", furiously mash their displeasure out on the keyboard, and offer no solution other than "FIX NAO".

Spawn Camping is a problem on both sides of the Wall, especially on the defenders when the LLs were removed from the dropships and the drop points are right next to the 4 objectives inside the base.

Rushing out to camp the attackers DZ... that's kinda ballsy if you ask me. That's asking for some lights to get through and LOLZ on your gens. Kind of a **** move on one hand, but on the otherhand, it shows the defenders completely overwhelmed the attackers.

[H I A S]

EightBitKnight, on 13 January 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

defenders should die for leaving their zone similar to leaving the battlefield.

nope

[Harathan]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

Oh, I agree with the spawn camping part of it, but the whole "defenders should die if they leave the base", blah, blah, blah...

Spawn Camping is a problem on both sides of the Wall, especially on the defenders when the LLs were removed from the dropships and the drop points are right next to the 4 objectives inside the base.

Rushing out to camp the attackers DZ... that's kinda ballsy if you ask me. That's asking for some lights to get through and LOLZ on your gens. Kind of a **** move on one hand, but on the otherhand, it shows the defenders completely overwhelmed the attackers.

Oh yeah, definitely a problem for both sides, although Defenders do get more cover and turrets to help with that.

And yeah, if Defenders manage to push the Attackers back to their spawn and camp, sure, they outplayed the opposition, no question. Sure, they're taking a risk doing it. Doesn't mean it's not a crappy thing to do.

Edited by Harathan, 13 January 2015 - 12:31 PM.

[EightBitKnight]

Harathan, on 13 January 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

Oh yeah, definitely a problem for both sides, although Defenders do get more cover and turrets to help with that.

And yeah, if Defenders manage to push the Attackers back to their spawn and camp, sure, they outplayed the opposition, no question. Sure, they're taking a risk doing it. Doesn't mean it's not a crappy thing to do.

I agree but there was no playing involed

[Roadbeer]

Nevermind, we're in agreement.

Edited by Roadbeer, 13 January 2015 - 12:35 PM.

[DEMAX51]

I think the best solution for Attackers being Spawn Camped by Defenders is an alternative win condition for the Defending team. If they could win by, say, destroying a big Overlord Dropship (or something) that'd be great.

Honestly, when a match devolves into a spawn-camp fest it's pretty much over anyway, and I think those teams that do it are usually just trying to get the match over as quickly as they can so they can queue up for another.

I'll be perfectly honest - our 12 man is guilty of having spawn-camped when we were completely overpowering the Attackers, but it's not something we enjoy or revel in.

Edited by DEMAX51, 13 January 2015 - 12:37 PM.

[Harathan]

DEMAX51, on 13 January 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think the best solution for Attackers being Spawn Camped by Defenders is an alternative win condition for the Defending team. If they could win by, say, destroying a big Overlord Dropship (or something) that'd be great.

That's not a terrible idea, actually. Give both teams an objective, sort of thing? Interesting.

[AztecD]

yea have an overlord dropship where you just appear on one of the hangars and leave it instead of hotdroping

i mean it has more than enough firepower to keep you somewhat safe

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Overlord

6x PPCs
2x AC/20
6x AC/5
12x Medium Lasers
3x LRM-20s
6x Large Lasers

[EightBitKnight]

it would at least provide some cover fire and something else to shoot at. Help give attackers some time to drop and be able to counter.

I offered a Fix.

how about a limited time they can leave after all you're there to defend not attack. say a 2 min window or some such. I'm not saying put it right at the gate just limit how far they can wander.

HiasRGB, on 13 January 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

nope

and your idea would be?

Edited by EightBitKnight, 13 January 2015 - 12:41 PM.

[Zeece]

Roadbeer, on 13 January 2015 - 12:18 PM, said:

Sigh,

And people wonder why I'm salty on the forums.

Delicious Salty Beer.... mmmmmmmmm

[Harathan]

DEMAX51, on 13 January 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

I think the best solution for Attackers being Spawn Camped by Defenders is an alternative win condition for the Defending team. If they could win by, say, destroying a big Overlord Dropship (or something) that'd be great.

The more I think about this idea (both teams having a destroyable objective, regardless of what form it takes) the more I like it. Can anyone think of any cons? Cos I can't.

[HighTest]

In truth, I haven't seen spawn-camping in a CW match until the very end, where the attacking team is down to its last couple of mechs. Never anywhere close to the second wave of an attack.

That's not to say that it doesn't happen, I just haven't seen it yet.

What PGI could do to 'fix' the problem, assuming that it is indeed a problem?

Easy.

What would the average, semi-sensible dropship pilot do if they were looking to make their drop and saw that the drop area was completely overrun by the enemy? Easy! Move along a little further and drop their load of mechs right by the unguarded (or lightly guarded) base. Why would they just drop them straight into the fire -- it doesn't make any sense.

Sooo... Have some sort of a rule in place that if X number of mechs (say half? 6? Or more than half? 7? To be determined) are in the attacking drop zone (zone to be defined), the attacking mechs instead get dropped into a secondary drop zone closer to (or even right on) the enemy base.

That would give the defenders the ability to establish at least a small forward spear into the attackers' zone, without overrunning them entirely. But would still punish them for outright spawn camping by leaving their base completely undefended and accessible to the attackers.

Just a thought.

<edit: crummy punctuation>

Edited by HighTest, 13 January 2015 - 12:52 PM.

[FlipOver]

Solution: Increase maps size

So simple.