79 replies to this topic

[HARDKOR]

How is getting 100k for 30 min winning?

Sounds like cutting your nose off to spite your face.

[Ingvay]

It's just my take and likely means very little, but here's my perspective:

I'm mid-forties, work 1.5 jobs, have a family and play two other games besides MWO.

I've been on the winning side of CW drops easily 2/3 of the matches I've participated in since CW started. In the last 6 days I've only been in 4 CW drops for LIAO that were losses out of almost two dozen I've played.

Yet, the green on the map keeps getting smaller every day. It seems that players from opposing factions seem to act like those of us in LIAO and by extension myself should be on here every day/night battling it out for hours on end... I have this thing called real-life, and it trumps MWO, no matter how much I love this franchise.

I'd personally rather see it take multiple days to take a planet, with a cap on the number of drops per day per planet, although I know that wont ever happen.

My point is, that without a significantly larger player population in our faction, I don't see anything changing as it stands now or even after a map reset. That's the simple reality of it.

CW drops are more fun than public cue pug matches, for now. And I'm happy we can at least fight against rival factions properly! I wish I had answers, but I know this current system won't sustain the game long-term.

Think about how much the IS map has changed in what??? A month. What happens 6-12 months from now? A year? Who will we be fighting then? Will it still remain dynamic and fluid? or will PGI be forced to do quarterly resets like PVP seasons? The bigger question is how many times will Davion, the Clan players etc... be OK with this type of thing?

There are more questions than answers IMO.

Edited by Ingvay, 21 January 2015 - 11:35 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Ingvay, on 21 January 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

It's just my take and likely means very little, but here's my perspective:

I'm mid-forties, work 1.5 jobs, have a family and play two other games besides MWO.

I've been on the winning side of CW drops easily 2/3 of the matches I've participated in since CW started. In the last 6 days I've only been in 4 CW drops for LIAO that were losses out of almost two dozen I've played.

Yet, the green on the map keeps getting smaller every day. It seems that players seem to act like those of us in LIAO and by extension myself should be on here every day/night battling it out for hours on end... I have this thing called real-life, and it trumps MWO, no matter how much I love this franchise.

I'd personally rather see it take multiple days to take a planet, with a cap on the number of drops per day per planet, although I know that wont ever happen.

My point is, that without a significantly larger player population in our faction, I don't see anything changing as it stands now or even after a map reset. That's the simple reality of it.

CW drops are more fun than public cue pug matches, for now. And I'm happy we can at least fight against rival factions properly! I wish I had answers, but I know this current system won't sustain the game long-term.

Think about how much the IS map has changed in what??? A month. What happens 6-12 months from now? A year? Who will we be fighting then? Will it still remain dynamic and fluid? or will PGI be forced to do quarterly resets like PVP seasons? The bigger question is how many times will Davion, the Clan players etc... be OK with this type of thing?

There are more questions than answers IMO.

<3 on that. Liao is in a crappy map position. TDR 9S got some crappy hitboxes for no XL and no good other stuff and it got a series of ERPPC buffs. Liao gets pinned in a corner in a crappy map position and no options and what does it get?

[Thorn Hallis]

wanderer, on 21 January 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

You're not in a faction, ergo the whole thing outside pubbie queues is meaningless as well.

Competition is it's own reward.

I saw no reason to align my forum alt with a faction.

[Faith McCarron]

As a general rule of thumb, if you are fighting a Davion group of 6 or more, it doesn't matter if it's a good group like ACES or a scrub group like -T, you WILL get a zerg rush right off the bat. On the Liao side, TCAF were the only ones I saw that often used the zerg rush right off the bat, but even they seem to have switched to attrition.

I can't speak for other units, but when it comes to 4TCR, and me personally if I'm dropping with a mixed Liao group of good players, I go with attrition for a simple reason: Attrition favors the side with better skilled players. If you are a skilled group and you go for attrition against a poor opfor, you will win. If you are a skilled group and you go against an equally skilled group, you'll get a close game with a decent chance of winning.

Why would others choose for the zerg? It's an easier way to win when you have a less skilled group. If you Zerg against a less skilled opponent, you will win quickly. If you zerg against an equally skilled opponent, you will probably win. If you zerg against a more skilled opponent, you still have a shot to win, whereas if you were to fight them, you stand a much greater chance of losing.

Edited by Faith McCarron, 22 January 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[HARDKOR]

I consider any CW game where I make less than 300K to be a loss.

[WarHippy]

Gorgo7, on 21 January 2015 - 11:50 AM, said:

Vas,

It doesn't pay well either.

General rule (when with Liao) when attacking is to win through attrition.

It pays, very well indeed!

HARDKOR, on 21 January 2015 - 02:23 PM, said:

Well, if you zerg us, expect to not play us again, as we'll just go somewhere more profitable. We come to fight, not to play rugby.

You can whup on us all night and make millions, if you fight us.

You'll get a GG either way, we just won't be there next time you cue up.

If you are trying to make money that is what the normal queue is for. CW is about the objectives and capturing planets. If you don't like the zerg tactic find a way to stop it and people will stop using it.

[Gorgo7]

WarHippy, on 22 January 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

If you are trying to make money that is what the normal queue is for. CW is about the objectives and capturing planets. If you don't like the zerg tactic find a way to stop it and people will stop using it.

???
What are you talking about?
Don't like attrition play? Don't do it.
I like attrition play.

[WarHippy]

Gorgo7, on 22 January 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

???
What are you talking about?
Don't like attrition play? Don't do it.
I like attrition play.

Playing by attrition is fine and I have no problem with people doing that, but you and a couple of others are going on and on about making money when that is what the normal queue is for.

[Faith McCarron]

WarHippy, on 22 January 2015 - 09:44 AM, said:

Playing by attrition is fine and I have no problem with people doing that, but you and a couple of others are going on and on about making money when that is what the normal queue is for.

Are you high, bro? If you drop in CW you can earn 750k-1M a match, as long as you get matches and people fight. It's a money making machine.

[Lance425]

MischiefSC, on 21 January 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

The problem is that zerging is the easiest, most reliable way to win that requires the least amount of skill and effort. Attrition is possible but a lot harder. The defense is JJ mechs standing on the Omega ledge. It's not possible to protect the ogens from a halfway organized light zerg.

Where you see the light zerg fail is people who don't all show up for it or the guys who get distracted chasing kills or when they don't actually all commit. You'll get the zerg group that goes in, then stops at the gate to shoot 1 guy or something goofy.

It's also the cheesiest most BS way of winning. Hence, why I haven't dropped in CW in weeks. Playing a game is about winning, but being a human being is realizing when you are making the game miserable for everyone you are playing against.

Just my 2 cents and good luck with the rest of your drops.

[Vas79]

Human nature means that we'll never see the zerg rush end if it's an easy and efficient way to win. As it stands now the only down side to zerging is that you might lose the match. If there were other consequences to zerging it would be cut down on as the go to tactic, but alas we won't see that until we have some kind of economy.

[WarHippy]

Faith McCarron, on 22 January 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Are you high, bro? If you drop in CW you can earn 750k-1M a match, as long as you get matches and people fight. It's a money making machine.

Nah bro. The amount of time it takes to get a game, and the amount of time it takes to fight out a game of attrition does not come close to the money you can make in the normal queue. To put it bluntly if you are playing in CW to make money you are doing it wrong, and while those big pay outs look good on the surface the efficiency is in the toilet.

[MischiefSC]

Lance425, on 22 January 2015 - 10:10 AM, said:

It's also the cheesiest most BS way of winning. Hence, why I haven't dropped in CW in weeks. Playing a game is about winning, but being a human being is realizing when you are making the game miserable for everyone you are playing against.

Just my 2 cents and good luck with the rest of your drops.

You'd be hard pressed to find someone less fond of zerging than me. I love attrition matches, I love mixed unit tactics. A variety of solutions have been put to PGI to fix this and have gotten no response. Hopefully they get fixed. In the interim though the best option seems to be mixing it up; do the crap stuff that wins matches enough to secure a lead on a planet then switch to attrition. You can also run 1 zerg rush, 2 attrition waves, then a finishing mixed wave of fast mediums if you're not way ahead on kills.

The big issue is that it's a game of averages. If you play attrition and win 70% of matches and the other faction runs zergs (there's units with one faction that run 3 Firestarter/Spider waves and 1 Atlas/Banshee/King Crab 4th wave) and wins 90%, you're losing planets. Which sucks but that's the game PGI made.

400k for a good match, 750k for a great match when you don't have premium time running. That makes CW both fun and profitable. That's what it should be and playing to that should be what wins matches.

Right now though it isn't. That.... is what it is. In a PvP environment things will always settle to the lowest common denominator. It's up to PGI to raise that as high as possible.

[HARDKOR]

While you can make more in the derp cue farming pugs, you can make almost the same in CW if theres an actual fight.

You also make a lot more if you fight than if you fight turrets.

The planets have ZERO VALUE. I promise you, no one but you cares that your units name is on a planet once the battle moves on to another planet. Noone wants to see your e-peen. It's just masturbation.

You get 10x as much loyalty points for fighting and killing as you do for playing rugby.

Seems simple to me, but hey, I'm just a pirate.

[Faith McCarron]

WarHippy, on 22 January 2015 - 11:45 AM, said:

Nah bro. The amount of time it takes to get a game, and the amount of time it takes to fight out a game of attrition does not come close to the money you can make in the normal queue. To put it bluntly if you are playing in CW to make money you are doing it wrong, and while those big pay outs look good on the surface the efficiency is in the toilet.

Or maybe you're just bad?

[WarHippy]

HARDKOR, on 22 January 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

While you can make more in the derp cue farming pugs, you can make almost the same in CW if theres an actual fight.

Key word there is IF. Seeing as zergs are a thing most of the time you are not making anywhere near the amount you can make in the normal queue.

HARDKOR, on 22 January 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

You also make a lot more if you fight than if you fight turrets.

Yes, but again if you are looking to make money CW is not the best way to go about it.

HARDKOR, on 22 January 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

The planets have ZERO VALUE. I promise you, no one but you cares that your units name is on a planet once the battle moves on to another planet. Noone wants to see your e-peen. It's just masturbation.

Hey I just like to see the border's move and play a part in it all be it a small part.

HARDKOR, on 22 January 2015 - 01:29 PM, said:

You get 10x as much loyalty points for fighting and killing as you do for playing rugby.

This is true and about the only viable reason to go for attrition battles other than doing them as a preferred tactical decision. Then again most of those faction levels have about as much value as those planets that nobody cares about.

Faith McCarron, on 22 January 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Or maybe you're just bad?

Math must have been hard for you.

[Maxwell Albritten]

Faith McCarron, on 22 January 2015 - 01:35 PM, said:

Or maybe you're just bad?

Ding ding ding we have a winner!

[HARDKOR]

Um Warhippy... that "IF" you refer to is determined by you guys.

My initial point was, that if you want a bunch of money and really fun gams, come fight us and actually fight us. Win or lose you'll make hella bank, and have a good time fighting fun people who don't trash talk you when they win and don't complain when they lose. Hell, we rarely field more than 4 9S's in a whole CW game and have guys that only own mediums.

Or, you could run by us once, make about the same as you make fighting turrets, and send us back to fight clan wolf, where it's pugtastic most of the time and we make 500-800k a game.

[wanderer]

Heck, even the Davions are farming groups they can easily beat at this point.

Of course, that helps make sure the other Davion forces are less likely to get a fight as they're literally running fights on a timetable.

1) Light zerg to destroy most generators.
2) Deliberate gate stall till a predetermined time (and then suicide rush with whatever's left at appointed time)
3) Crush through with statistically identical force and destroy Omega, re-queueing as other Davion forces are already dropped.
4) Repeat steps 1-3 with same attacker and defender.