316 replies to this topic

[Targetloc]

Let me restate: all the maps we've seen so far the devs have stated there's 2 ways to win. Either by wiping out the enemy team, or completing the mission objective.

It could be balanced by having alternate objectives for the clans. If the IS has one base to defend and the clans have 2, while you don't necessarily force the clanners to split their forces you put them at a tactical disadvantage.

Or the clans may face objectives where they have to assault a more easily defended position.

MWO isn't going to be wasteland arena matches. There's nothing showing you'll have to face the Clans mech for mech, head to head right off the bat (before cross-tech and clan salvage becomes common).


There are a huge number of potential ways to balance a scenario without straying too far from the canon mech stats.

[Syro]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 June 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

13 August 3049 is this year, so to speak. So, Kell is about to vanish in less than 80 days. That is not the first wave. The first wave is still a few months out, March 3050, or for us March 2013.

Right. I should have been more clear on this in my post. The periphery raids were prior to the 1st wave. This gives the devs chances to slip in clan events here and there to test things. Things that are maybe not quite right, people will report, and they will get blown out of proportion. DEevs will quitely tune things behind the scenes, and test them again some other day.

In this way, the introduction of the clans in game could be a confusing, mysterious, and terrifying as in game cannon. I think it affords a great opportunity.

[Stormlight666]

SinnerX, on 28 June 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

Sure it does. Just make it a dev event. They get to stomp around in super OP mechs, and we'll try our darnedest to bring one down.

At the end of the event, they can release new equipment for IS, and make the clans playable factions.

Or whatever. I'm sure the devs are considering everything and probably already have a better plan in place. They probably had most of it planned out before they even started programming.

Fifty thumbs up and likes for this idea. A pre-clan invasion event with the devs playing Clan would be a great way to "beta test" them with the public.

Anyways, my opinion on the whole clan tech vs IS tech fairness idea is this: Since clan tech is a lot more valuable each side should tally up their mechs C-Bill worth and compare it to the other side. So if team 1, lets say a Goonswarm team (not beating up on you guys) has a team of pimped out mechs with the best gear, and they take on team 2: Urbie Nation which has a handful of Urbies and a mish-mash of pug players. Goonswarm wouldn't get as much loot from the fight if they won, but the Urbies would have increased loot for being the underdogs.

This would handle the fights later on when clans come into it, when a team could be capped with only have xx million c-bills on a team: so a clan team might only have 10 super mechs and be forced to drop 2 spots to go against the 12 IS mechs.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Syro, on 29 June 2012 - 02:35 PM, said:

Right. I should have been more clear on this in my post. The periphery raids were prior to the 1st wave. This gives the devs chances to slip in clan events here and there to test things. Things that are maybe not quite right, people will report, and they will get blown out of proportion. DEevs will quitely tune things behind the scenes, and test them again some other day.

In this way, the introduction of the clans in game could be a confusing, mysterious, and terrifying as in game cannon. I think it affords a great opportunity.

which is cool, but, these raids send back soo little information that we do not yet know its a clan thing. not until they strike in the open in the IS itself come March XD

[Isingdeath]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 June 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

Isingdeath, Its the easiest way to balance it. We Clanners will lose when and where we by canon/lore are supposed to. We know this, we accept it, but, we will enjoy the ride to it XD

Rejarial - I would not assume that I am not a clanner from my banner anymore than you can get an idea from your's I do want the game to be fun for all but as also as close to canon as it can be.

Edited by Isingdeath, 29 June 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[Landeraxe]

Zainredding, on 29 June 2012 - 08:49 AM, said:

RoyalWave is right. A 100 ton IS mech needs to be on par with a 100 ton Clan mech. Period. Otherwise no one will play the IS mechs. No one will handicap themselves just so they can play a mech in their houses armory.

No, he is not right. We don't even know if the clans will be playable right away, or if they'll be dev/bot controlled, or if they'll be 10 vs our 12, or ANYTHING. Just enjoy the IS game as it is for now, and trust the devs to make the invasion fun and exciting. Stop second guessing them when they haven't even decided how to handle it yet.

[Syro]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 June 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

which is cool, but, these raids send back soo little information that we do not yet know its a clan thing. not until they strike in the open in the IS itself come March XD

True. I do see your point. However, we know that the clans are coming. If the Devs are to mainain any parity with Canon, we know pretty much when the clans make their first official showing. So having a lance or two shoup every few days t test a few tbits of in-game mechanics doesn't rob the community of surprise, or anticipation, i think. Still, i'll be very happy as long as the ame is solid and we get to fac the clans and have a very very hard fight of it.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I want this game to be the best it can be! But, I see this not happening if we lessen the threat posed by the Clans and the technology they have. I am willing to follow the time line, date for date, fight for fight, and win and lose as IT dictates, but, I do not want to see the clans lessened because the IS fears them.

Syro, on 29 June 2012 - 02:46 PM, said:

True. I do see your point. However, we know that the clans are coming. If the Devs are to mainain any parity with Canon, we know pretty much when the clans make their first official showing. So having a lance or two shoup every few days t test a few tbits of in-game mechanics doesn't rob the community of surprise, or anticipation, i think. Still, i'll be very happy as long as the ame is solid and we get to fac the clans and have a very very hard fight of it.

would be fun to face the devs as they do the periphery raids. But, once the raids turn into invasion, i say, let us suit up as our beloved clans XD

[Syro]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 June 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

I want this game to be the best it can be! But, I see this not happening if we lessen the threat posed by the Clans and the technology they have. I am willing to follow the time line, date for date, fight for fight, and win and lose as IT dictates, but, I do not want to see the clans lessened because the IS fears them.


would be fun to face the devs as they do the periphery raids. But, once the raids turn into invasion, i say, let us suit up as our beloved clans XD

I certainly do not mean reducing the clans at all. Just getitng sorted out numerical balance (12 v 6? 5? 7?) and tweaking of weapon stats to make them more accurate/true to cannon/what have you, tuning mech models so they have the desired accel/turn/stop/height/cockpit/whatever. And yes, it would be fun to take shots at the dev during these tiny tuning raids.

[Rejarial Galatan]

Syro, never said you were asking that, but, alot of people ARE asking for just this, a way to reduce the clans to make them weaker than they are supposed to be, which would damage the game. I would think a single lance of all Clan mechs versus a trio of lances of IS may be a good balance. 3 on 12 for example.

[lllWAVElll]

Stormlight666, on 29 June 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

Fifty thumbs up and likes for this idea. A pre-clan invasion event with the devs playing Clan would be a great way to "beta test" them with the public.

Maybe something like this Clan Invasion Event idea here: “Operation Revival"

[korose]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 June 2012 - 02:57 PM, said:

Syro, never said you were asking that, but, a lot of people ARE asking for just this, a way to reduce the clans to make them weaker than they are supposed to be, which would damage the game. I would think a single lance of all Clan mechs versus a trio of lances of IS may be a good balance. 3 on 12 for example.

By damage the game you seem to mean deviate from canon, which in fact only damages the role-play aspect of the game. Right now the active forums population is made up of predominantly diehard fans of the franchise, but past launch these people will only make up a tiny fraction of the games player base, the vast majority of which won't care so much about canon but will care about the game being balanced and above all fun.

The introduction of a group of mechs which are superior in any way to others that are available will surely result in one of two outcomes; either the inferior mechs will rapidly become obsolete as only a small group of real BT fanatics continue to endure playing at a disadvantage, or the developers will have to introduce some new game type or mech weighting system as people have suggested. The balancing implications of such a game type or weighting system are absolutely mind-blowing and I dare say nearly impossible to get right, or even get to the point where you don't have people whining and frustrated every game because their team was so outnumbered/outgunned/whatever. While I appreciate that this game is attempting to stick as closely to canon as possible, it is above all a game and should be fun, which to the majority of gamers means balanced. It is also F2P, so the developers still need to make money by ensuring the game appeals to the majority of players, not just the small group of battletech fans who would adhere perfectly to canon above all else. If anything is going to damage this game, it will be sticking too closely to canon and refusing to deviate from it for the sake of balanced gameplay.

Edited by korose, 29 June 2012 - 05:02 PM.

[Rejarial Galatan]

I point out that our developers are die hard fans of battletech. and i doubt they would willingly harm the game or the lore or the canon by hitting the easy button for the IS. Hate to say it, but, fact is, the Clans are meant to be superior in every way for a reason. To go against this is to say: We have a Mechwarrior skin, but we do not care anything for the franchise that this came from." They decidedly will not do this. My faith is that strong in our developers and PGI.

if you want to balance the IS to the Clans soo badly, make those of us who choose clan, fight vastly superior numbers. say 2 IS for every 1 of us. or 3 to 1 or 4 to 1. THAT will balance and save the dignity and awe inspiring power of the clans.

[exiledangel]

Rejarial Galatan, on 28 June 2012 - 04:53 PM, said:

And how do you explain the majority of innersphere forces having rare clan tech at the start of the invasion?

i agree i would like to see the source the only info they got about the clans is when the wolf dragoons came clear and told were they were from but that was well in to the invasion.

well lets break down the books for you guys.

when ever there was a IS vs Clan battle the IS would throw a reinforced company of mechs at so your looking at 16 mechs + 1lance = 20 mechs to the clans trinairy which is 15 mech and then the battle was 50/50 because now the IS is bosting numbers versus the stronger clans.

now clan lore something role playing mechwarriors that play as a clan will have to deal with is 1v1 fight the clan style unltimitly that is what lead to the deafeat of the clans. the clans were fight 1clans mech vs 1 IS mech + his lance mates

so you do the math 1 vs 4 i don't care if your in a daishi and fighting 4 medium mechs that daishi sure will kill of one or 2 but in the end it wont down them all.

so to make it IS VS CLAN fair for every 1 clan mech droped in you can drop in 1.5 IS mech so the odds are not over kill but you still have the ability to boost numbers vs the clans .5 clan mechs will face off vs 7.5 IS mechs( lets make it round it up and make it 2 IS lances vs 1 clan star so its 5 vs 8 mechs dos any one find this to be more along the line of clan vs IS.

[Aaron DeChavilier]

Rejarial Galatan, on 29 June 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

I point out that our developers are die hard fans of battletech. and i doubt they would willingly harm the game or the lore or the canon by hitting the easy button for the IS. Hate to say it, but, fact is, the Clans are meant to be superior in every way for a reason. To go against this is to say: We have a Mechwarrior skin, but we do not care anything for the franchise that this came from." They decidedly will not do this. My faith is that strong in our developers and PGI.

easy button for IS eh? and the clans get what exactly? a not-Easy button? that's laughable.

[Rainrix]

Why don't clan mechs just be better, But for every 70 tons the Clan can bring, IS can bring 100 Tons. (Just a random number I guessed)

[Rejarial Galatan]

Aaron DeChavilier, on 29 June 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

easy button for IS eh? and the clans get what exactly? a not-Easy button? that's laughable.

turning down the power of clans is IS easy button. Making Clanners pay more to field the tech is easy button for IS. Making it hard for us in the clans is: Making us fight superior numbers. 2 to 1, 3 to 1, 4 to 1. While, we may have the superior tech, we, in the end, will lose and be forced into a truce for 15 years.

[Blue Shadow]

Aethon, on 29 June 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

lol Your post is exactly one of the ones to which I was referring. It's been said several times before I mentioned it, but the people who want an argument keep ignoring it and crying about a supposed balance problem, even though the Clans aren't even in beta yet from what I've heard, much less live.

I agree 100%, too; with the gradual release of new technology here and there, balancing only by unit numbers is going to be difficult; if the battle value is properly set for each item, it will be *almost* fire-and-forget. New item? No big deal...set a BV for it. If the new item's BV is set properly, they won't have to change anything else in the game to maintain the same balance.

haha totally, a system already set up can be easily tweaked for balance and the into of new tech why not? I'm thinking there must be some sort of anti BV movement in the forums we have not been made aware of!

[Xune]

Hmpf.

I dont like the idear of Having IS Mechs filled to the brim with CLan weapons and equipment.
I dont want to see IS mechs being 100% the same as CLan mechs with a new skin.

I dont want to see Clan players rolling over the IS without a sweet either.
I Dont want to see CLan players to behave like most do in a fps and throw the whole RP out of the window just for a cheap win.




Face it... 15 V 12 or 12 V 10 isent going to cut it
A mere Exp/money penalty if 2 claners shoot 1 target isent going to cut it
THe idear that the money you need to spend to get a clan mech is laughabel at best. Sooner or later anyone has one


The only real way to work this out is (totaly subjective point ov few. But what ? sue me !)

1: Battlevalues are Calculated to make the Match as fair as it can get. (so no 12 Madcats V 12 Jenners or 12 Atlas V 9 Ullers)

2: Breaking Zellbringer does compleatly negate all benefits a player could get from that match. So no planet capture, no exp, no money.

3: If a claner does (on purpose) Keep firig on Targets already engaged by a nother Player he will get a "timeout" in which he cant use his mech, trying to simulate the time he is going to spend in the hospital after being beaten half death from some one in the cycle for being the punk he is.


as i said. Im biased, i dont want to get around a corner and thing " o look a nother clan mech. A well lets fry him all by myself",
but neither do i want to get into games where i thing " Creat. Claners meaningless what we do they focus us to death, no one is playing by the rules anyway.

have a nice morning

Xune

[Rejarial Galatan]

any $ or xp penalties to clan players is simply out of the question. It does more harm than good, and makes the company look like its biased towards the IS players over Clan players. The franchise ever since it moved on after GBL expansion for MW2 turned biased against the clanners imho.