19 replies to this topic

[Atlasian]

Hi. Not a newbie here but still I do not understand the range of detection on a target.

A target that is a distance away but in line of sight does not show a red triangle over it as my detection is out of range. So how close should be the effective range before the red triangle appears for me to press 'R'?

In addition, I can see a ECM-equipped target in close range, but what is the effective range before the red triangle appears over it?

Thanks.

[Thorqemada]

Target Detection Range is 800m, 1000m, 1200m if you have a Line of Sight to the target - no Line of Sight = no Target!
800m standard
1000m with BAP or Sensor Range Module
1200m with BAP + Sensor Range Module
You also get all Targets that your Team has a Line of Sight to - be it direct or per little stationary drone that temporarily gives some airborne scouting data.

ECM will break most of these rules and it goes to far why - if you cant target an Enemy you or your Teams does see it has probably ECM cover.
BAP will counter 1 ECM in a range of 240m around it (if there are 2 ECM you need 2 BAP etc).
ECM will counter 1 ECM if it is in ECCM mode - but it will no longer offer ECM to friendly Units that way.
TAG (Target Aquisition Gear - a Laserbeam that is on the Target) may enable you to target 1 Enemy in ECM cover up to 750m away.
NARC is a Missile that has 450m range and sends a signal that makes a Mech targetable for while when an enemy Mech was hit by it - the Signal itself has a big range.

Edited by Thorqemada, 25 January 2015 - 08:43 AM.

[dragnier1]

I noticed, sometimes i need to be facing the target to be able to select it with R, even though i do not have a visual on it.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Glad he asked this.

Could you add how a BAP/ECM combo would work? Sounds like the main difference is there is no reason for me to set ECM into Counter Mode.

Also, shouldn't Sensor Range add range to my (electronic) ECM?

[Koniving]

dragnier1, on 25 January 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

I noticed, sometimes i need to be facing the target to be able to select it with R, even though i do not have a visual on it.

The "target" thing prioritizes the target as "which one is closest to the crosshair."

And when changing from who is closer, it goes for the next closest (and sometimes gets confused and does nothing).

[TheCaptainJZ]

Fenrisulvyn, on 25 January 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

Glad he asked this.

Could you add how a BAP/ECM combo would work? Sounds like the main difference is there is no reason for me to set ECM into Counter Mode.

Also, shouldn't Sensor Range add range to my (electronic) ECM?

BAPs counter ecm abilities are removed if you equip both. You would have to set your ecm in counter mode. Sensor range doesn't add to ecm but it does add to BAPs counter ecm ability. There is a range between ecm cutoff at 180 m and BAPs counter range. That outside range is increased a little. It used to be only a 20 m window but it's larger now.

[happy mech]

TheCaptainJZ, on 25 January 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

BAPs counter ecm abilities are removed if you equip both. You would have to set your ecm in counter mode.

no, bap counters one, ecm can counter another

[Koniving]

happy mech, on 25 January 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

no, bap counters one, ecm can counter another

Not true. While ECM is enabled on the mech equipped with both, the BAP cannot counter an enemy ECM.

You must hit J, disabling the jamming and switching to counter mode to be able to counter an enemy ECM in MWO.

In essence, the BAP ability to counter ECM is simply removed.

The only thing in question is whether you get ECM's 180 meter counter range or BAP's 200 meter counter range in MWO when you have both and are set to Counter mode.

Edited by Koniving, 25 January 2015 - 12:05 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

okay so it sounds like I had that backwards. Just to be clear:

My BAP/ECM mech loses what was a persistent BAP "Counter ECM" function, while ECM is equipped.
Which also means my Sensor Range mod won't extend the BAP Counter ECM signal (b/c there is none)

The only way I can jam enemy ECM (while carrying BAP) is to set my ECM to Counter ECM mode.

So by combining them on one mech, I'm actually getting less out of BAP (and Sensor Range).

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 25 January 2015 - 12:26 PM.

[Koniving]

Pretty much. You basically lose the constant counter effect of BAP, but maintain all other aspects of BAP.
Quite simply think of it as choose one or the other if you're min/maxing. Otherwise enjoy the sensor range boost and ability to target powered-down mechs.
Skip to 1 minute and wait for it.

I didn't have bap but I saw it. (When I started playing powering off and stealth kills was an incredibly effective combat tactic).

Edited by Koniving, 25 January 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[Kenyon Burguess]

How does the command console fit into the math?

[happy mech]

hmm never noticed that, i keep running ecm+bap all the time, cannot test it

command console gives +50m sensor range, bap +200m, sensor mudule +200m, base is 800m, so total you can get 1250m (can test in testing grounds)

[Atlasian]

I may have missed something, but if Mech has no BAP, sensor mod and whatsoever that aid detection, what is the min range to target an ECM-Mech?

[Thorqemada]

Something around ~180m but if there are more ECMs around you are screwed bcs they overlap.

Edited by Thorqemada, 26 January 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Thorqemada, on 25 January 2015 - 08:31 AM, said:

You also get all Targets that your Team has a Line of Sight to - be it direct or per little stationary drone that temporarily gives some airborne scouting data.

that is not accurate, you only get targets for Mechs TARGETED by your teammates or within your range and line of sight, that is part of the reasion that it is a good idea to always have something targeted,

If you find yoursenf up against a lance and target a single Mech as far as your team knows you are up against a single Mech, if you want help drop a UAV or keep tapping R so your team can see you are up against several enemy Mechs,

if a Mech is not targeted and is out of a Mechs targeting range or line of sight it cannot be seen by a Mech unless NARCed or in range of an active UAV

[Hammer 13]

Rogue Jedi, on 26 January 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

that is not accurate, you only get targets for Mechs TARGETED by your teammates or within your range and line of sight, that is part of the reasion that it is a good idea to always have something targeted,

If you find yoursenf up against a lance and target a single Mech as far as your team knows you are up against a single Mech, if you want help drop a UAV or keep tapping R so your team can see you are up against several enemy Mechs,

if a Mech is not targeted and is out of a Mechs targeting range or line of sight it cannot be seen by a Mech unless NARCed or in range of an active UAV

That is great advice! I cannot count the number of times I came around a 'corner' to an "OH crap!" moment. Should use my UAV then...if I haven't already.

[Thorqemada]

Well, i took for given that Teammates do target Mechs...my fault

[Tim East]

Koniving, on 25 January 2015 - 12:45 PM, said:

I didn't have bap but I saw it. (When I started playing powering off and stealth kills was an incredibly effective combat tactic).

I miss proper stealth as an aspect of mech warfare.

[Koniving]

Tim East, on 26 January 2015 - 08:53 PM, said:

I miss proper stealth as an aspect of mech warfare.

Who doesn't. What's hilarious is that is the main reason that a large majority of ECM users don't want the ECM to change.
Which I don't mind the ECM cloaking field, but I would rather have that limited to those using Stealth Armor (which requires ECM) or Null Sig (which I haven't played with yet but found the rulebook it's in and need to read up on it).

But as of right now, "Stealth" in MWO can't happen without Sulpherous Rift, Terra Therma and Alpine size maps with things like tunnels, enclosed pathways, etc, and no obvious central point to go to. That or slower mechs. Simply fewer players within a fight.

Or the most critical thing from closed beta; standing 'dead' mechs. Mechs whose deaths look similar to powering down, whether from engine failure (where the gyro kept it up until the muscles [Myomer muscular circuitry] went stiff) or the pilot died but the mech is still functional (cockpit destruction). I used to power off while smoking and smouldering nearby other 'dead mechs' in a Raven 4X with an AC/20 and just let enemies walk right next to me... Power up. Bam! Power down. "....What was that?"

Surviving the "Test fire" of corpses and things like that, almost reminds one of Prop Hunt.

With BAP 100% required as an ECM counter (when the source material has it as nothing of the sort), you can't get away with this as you're instantly detected while powered down.

[Tim East]

Koniving, on 27 January 2015 - 06:24 AM, said:

Or the most critical thing from closed beta; standing 'dead' mechs. Mechs whose deaths look similar to powering down, whether from engine failure (where the gyro kept it up until the muscles [Myomer muscular circuitry] went stiff) or the pilot died but the mech is still functional (cockpit destruction). I used to power off while smoking and smouldering nearby other 'dead mechs' in a Raven 4X with an AC/20 and just let enemies walk right next to me... Power up. Bam! Power down. "....What was that?"

Surviving the "Test fire" of corpses and things like that, almost reminds one of Prop Hunt.

With BAP 100% required as an ECM counter (when the source material has it as nothing of the sort), you can't get away with this as you're instantly detected while powered down.

Heck yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I used to have an SRM 12 COM 3A for that, and it was super-intense. ECM's utility as a tool has led to the ubiquitous BAP of which you speak. For that matter, I was one of the people trumpeting the usefulness of BAP long before the negation range on it got extended, and then later reduced but not to its starting value. If ECM were not so very strong, what with providing a very large area in which your side can operate with complete impunity with regards to LRMs, you wouldn't see BAP achieving nearly the prevalence that it has today.

I know it's not really a discussion for here, but I would not take it poorly if ECM only applied to the mech it was mounted on, if the devs really really REALLY want to insist on it being a target denial thing at all. Didn't it just negate certain electronic bonuses IF the mech mounting those electronics were close enough canonically?

Well, at any rate the era where stealth was a thing is pretty much gone, and being sneaky is just going to get you shot if you face any even moderately competent players like me. I mount BAP in most of my mechs, especially brawlers since negating enemy ECM may cause missile rain, and I frequently shoot "downed" mechs to test if they really are dead. The red flashing cross-hairs tell me your true status.