70 Years After Auschwitz
#1
Posted 27 January 2015 - 07:49 AM
Today, 70 years ago, the red army opened the gate of the concentration camp Auschwitz-Birkenau. 1,100,000 people died there, 900,000 died instantly in the gas chambers and 200,000 died because of illnesses and other causes.
5,6 million people died in the whole Holocaust, 70 million died in the whole World War II.
Today is a day of remembrance, a day of memory.
As a German myself, I had family on both sides. Refugees on the one side, normal soldiers and housewives on the other side. Here is my opinion on the matter.
We shall never forget the images, the events from then. We should do our best to make the world we live in a better one, a more peaceful one.
Without further words from someone who has not gone through that hell, I highly recommend some further reading into the topic.
Thank you for your time.
#2
Posted 27 January 2015 - 08:21 AM
You're not responsible for the past of your country. All you can do is be a data point of positivity for people who run into Germans and say dumb things.
#3
Posted 27 January 2015 - 08:42 AM
Marack Drock, on 27 January 2015 - 08:37 AM, said:
Vielen Dank!
Did you learn german? That's already pretty good.
#4
Posted 27 January 2015 - 08:48 AM
Edited by SaltBeef, 27 January 2015 - 08:48 AM.
#5
Posted 27 January 2015 - 08:49 AM
SaltBeef, on 27 January 2015 - 08:48 AM, said:
If we don't ease up on the east-west conflict we are all dead before they can rise.
#6
Posted 27 January 2015 - 09:02 AM
Clan Wolf International pays its humble respects to the families and victims of the holocaust.
o7
#7
Posted 27 January 2015 - 09:29 AM
Iqfish, on 27 January 2015 - 07:49 AM, said:
We shall never forget the images, the events from then. We should do our best to make the world we live in a better one, a more peaceful one.
My biggets issue, we and or world? Not forget?
where does OUR world end? at the borders of our western civilisation? because OUR WORLD NOW AND YET STILL HAS THESE ISSUES.
WWII was a horrible thing and the biggets of mankinds time, yet the problems of those past are the problems of the present, and many people in their convinient warm and safe homes do not want to see what is still happing out there.
#8
Posted 27 January 2015 - 10:11 AM
Am I responsible, as a German, as a individual, for the Holocaust? Surely no! But people, especially the Germans have a special obligation to remember people what there happened in the past!
When I started to play Mechwarrior 4, and to play it online, often we played in nighttimes in league-matches against americans. Many times we were abused for being Germans, and what our grandfathers did. In the same time the Americans attacked the Iraq, obviously because of a lie form their gouverment, and we "striked" back in the same manner.
14-15 years later I have to say the community is much more maturely, specially this community. From the States over Europe to deep Syberia I know a lot of people, and some are so called "Teamspeak-friends." You talk with them, you discuss with them and you laugh with them ... I served as a tanker more than a decade in the German army, and if I imagine there could be a new war, and I have to shoot at someone, and this someone could be one, who had fun with me in this game ...
If a online game haves any sense beyond having fun in freetime, then that it is a small part of international understanding, maybe more worth than open borders or a single currency. If you talk to someone foreign, you can explore, and get over borders.
Edited by Nygen Claw, 27 January 2015 - 10:28 AM.
#9
Posted 27 January 2015 - 09:14 PM
I cannot watch anything Holocaust related without breaking down and crying most of the time. Sometimes in a very small corner of my mind I hear a voice saying" Turn it off, you know what happens." but Ii continue watching because I do not want to forget and not enough of the younger kids today (I'm 37) know what happened. So I watch with the hopes that one day they'll listen to me talk about what happened.
Edited by ColonelProctor, 27 January 2015 - 09:26 PM.
#10
Posted 27 January 2015 - 10:26 PM
#11
Posted 28 January 2015 - 04:06 PM
It is important to remember how and why so many people could have failed to behave like decent human beings, instead falling in line behind institutionalised hatred - now more than ever, for as you have pointed out, hatred is still (or perhaps has become again) a very attractive lifestyle aspect in countries around the world. It is almost ironic how the youtube-commenters you alluded to may well be tomorrow's new {Godwin's Law}, if we as a civilization are not careful enough. Just under a different name, be it ISIS, or Pegida, UKIP .. the list goes on, and every nation has its own demons to fight here.
Anyways, as an ex-German myself, I agree with the overall sentiment of your piece, and you did a good job contributing to the remembrance of something that should not be forgotten, for you have to learn from mistakes in order to prevent them from occurring again. And in order to learn from a mistake, the first step is realizing you've made one, and keeping that in mind.
Lily from animove, on 27 January 2015 - 09:29 AM, said:
Coincidentally, I just watched Patlabor 2 the other day, and there was one dialogue that stuck with me:
"Now all over the world there are bullet wars, civil wars, suffering, misery, death. We’re a rich country. And what is our wealth built on? The bloody corpses in all these wars. They’re the foundation of our peace. We now put the same effort into indifference that our parents put into war. Other countries comfortably far away pay the price for our prosperous peace. We’ve learned very well how to ignore their suffering."
Ah, humanity could achieve so much if only we would learn to work together, to care for each other, past something as insignificant and fluid as national borders, or the many other labels we use to segregate this world's populace into neatly arranged, pre-defined categories rather than treating and judging each other as individuals belonging to a singular species.
#12
Posted 29 January 2015 - 02:49 AM
Kyone Akashi, on 28 January 2015 - 04:06 PM, said:
Coincidentally, I just watched Patlabor 2 the other day, and there was one dialogue that stuck with me:
"Now all over the world there are bullet wars, civil wars, suffering, misery, death. We’re a rich country. And what is our wealth built on? The bloody corpses in all these wars. They’re the foundation of our peace. We now put the same effort into indifference that our parents put into war. Other countries comfortably far away pay the price for our prosperous peace. We’ve learned very well how to ignore their suffering."
Ah, humanity could achieve so much if only we would learn to work together, to care for each other, past something as insignificant and fluid as national borders, or the many other labels we use to segregate this world's populace into neatly arranged, pre-defined categories rather than treating and judging each other as individuals belonging to a singular species.
very much this, how many people know where their cheap 5$ shirts come from? from asian labour camps where women work for less than they need to even feed themselves and their families, where sexual assaults are a daily thing. And how much is this difference form the NS labour camps? probably not much. It differs from the xtermination camp,s by not beign made to kill millions, yet the labour camp reflection of the past is still present in our time.
Even IPhones as a premium and not cheap product get produced in camps where people are not even allowed to leave the area after work, being kinda encaged in their working homes there.
And all this is not entirely the fault of those countires where it happens, its mostly because of our industrial countries where they sell their stuff to. Because many of the poeple living there consume and demand these products. And this is an even more inconvinient truth becaue this time youc na nt blame a single madman and a few of his people, because this time we are also to blame. So stop buying the cheap and rbbihs stuff and start caring where those products come from.
anyone remembering this maybe?
evene the lazy gamers are a cause. And hen you have all the videos and stufon youtube makign fun about suffer and horrible things that actually happens to other people.
http://www.theguardi...net-gaming-scam
quote:
"If I couldn't complete my work quota, they would punish me physically. They would make me stand with my hands raised in the air and after I returned to my dormitory they would beat me with plastic pipes. We kept playing until we could barely see things,"
Edited by Lily from animove, 29 January 2015 - 02:58 AM.
#13
Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:12 AM
And want to say "Thanks" to these people, who resque them from this Hell!... Many of our, soviet, soldiers were dying on the way of this. Rest In Peace all of you. Spasibo za vse.
#14
Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:46 AM
I personally beleive one fo the sayings (Multiple quotations, so I cant 100% say who first said it)
“Learn from history or you're doomed to repeat it.” (or my personal favorite version "Learn from history, or you will continue stepping on the steaming piles of it").
Learn from history, take note and never repeat the mistakes made and make sure that things like the holocaust are never repeated, but dont keep on riding on it becasue people who can never let go of old history and insist on carrying it over the generations are not much better in my opinion.
There are many examples on how the German people have changed and how (most) the people have learnt from the national past. Here are a few from this/last year;
PEGIDA - For just about every demonstration from these guys, you will have a much biger, group of demonstrators against them. National institutions have switched off their outside lights in the middle of a Pegida demonstration letting them stand around in the dark (Dresdner Opera house for example).
My personal favorite example of creative thinking against right wing nutters;
Every year the Neonazies march through a town called Wunsiedel to the (removed) grave of Rudolf Hess (second in command in the 3rd reich) and every year there is a massive demonstration and trouble against them... last year everything was different.
For every meter which this 1 km march went, 10 Euros were donated to "Exit Deutchland" (basically an organisation which specialises in helping people get out of the neonazi scene). The route which they always walk to the grave was marked in 250 meter incriments with "Thank you for 2500 Euros for Exit germany". the whole route was also set up like a small mock up marathon run, including cheering bystanders, banners for this Exit foundation and cheering the marching Neonazis for making sure that they can manage the whole distance so that the maximum amount of EUR 10000,00 is donated. They were even provided with food in the form of bananas infront of a baner with "Mein mampf" (translated means "my fodder" and rhymes with a certain book from a certain Author) like in a real Marathon. In this situation, the Neonazies faced teh dilema of not compelting the march or loosing face completely and also directly helping an organisation directly working against tehir own ideals.
Spoiler for a picture and link (in German reporting about this
This is, in my eye the only and best way of countering people who either deny/ignore lessons from history or want to dig them up again. Dont resort to violence which is a resort they are more at home with, but fight them with intelligence instead which goes comepltely over their heads.
Edited by Rushin Roulette, 29 January 2015 - 03:47 AM.
#15
Posted 29 January 2015 - 04:02 AM
Rushin Roulette, on 29 January 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:
I personally beleive one fo the sayings (Multiple quotations, so I cant 100% say who first said it)
“Learn from history or you're doomed to repeat it.” (or my personal favorite version "Learn from history, or you will continue stepping on the steaming piles of it").
Learn from history, take note and never repeat the mistakes made and make sure that things like the holocaust are never repeated, but dont keep on riding on it becasue people who can never let go of old history and insist on carrying it over the generations are not much better in my opinion.
There are many examples on how the German people have changed and how (most) the people have learnt from the national past. Here are a few from this/last year;
PEGIDA - For just about every demonstration from these guys, you will have a much biger, group of demonstrators against them. National institutions have switched off their outside lights in the middle of a Pegida demonstration letting them stand around in the dark (Dresdner Opera house for example).
My personal favorite example of creative thinking against right wing nutters;
Every year the Neonazies march through a town called Wunsiedel to the (removed) grave of Rudolf Hess (second in command in the 3rd reich) and every year there is a massive demonstration and trouble against them... last year everything was different.
For every meter which this 1 km march went, 10 Euros were donated to "Exit Deutchland" (basically an organisation which specialises in helping people get out of the neonazi scene). The route which they always walk to the grave was marked in 250 meter incriments with "Thank you for 2500 Euros for Exit germany". the whole route was also set up like a small mock up marathon run, including cheering bystanders, banners for this Exit foundation and cheering the marching Neonazis for making sure that they can manage the whole distance so that the maximum amount of EUR 10000,00 is donated. They were even provided with food in the form of bananas infront of a baner with "Mein mampf" (translated means "my fodder" and rhymes with a certain book from a certain Author) like in a real Marathon. In this situation, the Neonazies faced teh dilema of not compelting the march or loosing face completely and also directly helping an organisation directly working against tehir own ideals.
Spoiler for a picture and link (in German reporting about this
This is, in my eye the only and best way of countering people who either deny/ignore lessons from history or want to dig them up again. Dont resort to violence which is a resort they are more at home with, but fight them with intelligence instead which goes comepltely over their heads.
while kinda original and funny, it could backfire when they decide to walk a path being 30km, because you may soon run into financial issues. ot they may come with cars next time making an even longer route.
knowing what happened is not preventing it from hapening again. Above things are more important, because someone has to act. Without acts, thoughts are intentions, and intentions do not change the world.
Edited by Lily from animove, 29 January 2015 - 04:03 AM.
#16
Posted 29 January 2015 - 04:30 AM
Lily from animove, on 29 January 2015 - 04:02 AM, said:
while kinda original and funny, it could backfire when they decide to walk a path being 30km, because you may soon run into financial issues. ot they may come with cars next time making an even longer route.
knowing what happened is not preventing it from hapening again. Above things are more important, because someone has to act. Without acts, thoughts are intentions, and intentions do not change the world.
The thing is, for this type of march in Germany, you must file it with the local government including the date of the march, expected number of marchers and the exact route, from which they are not permitted to deviate from at all (and which is in the case of neonazies very heavilly guarded/observed by a large taskforce of police who are partially already in full riot armour).
That is the reason why such actions can work, because it is already known in advance exactly where and when they will be marching. I think, that even if they marched 30 km (which I doubt quite a few of them could manage), then the action would not have changed. the donation was made by the town hall of Wunsiedel who are sick of these yearly marches through their streets, but who are not legally permitted to stop the neonazies (they tried multiple times to forbid them, but were not successful in court, as there is a freedom of demonstration in Germany). So instead of paying huge amounts of money for the bureaucratic and court costs, they decided to donate this money for something worth while.
Edited by Rushin Roulette, 29 January 2015 - 04:30 AM.
#17
Posted 29 January 2015 - 03:36 PM
Not to defend us Germans for what we did in WW2, but everyone who flings stones should be well aware that every greater nation did commit comparable crimes in the past, sometimes even surpassing the acts of WW2. Russian/Soviet genocide(s) between 1900 and 1950, Americas genocide against the American natives ... the tragic thing is that even after the war, so many things happened that just make you shake your head in disbelief about the arrogance and complete lack of humanity some people (and especially leaders) show.
Especially Americans (I don't talk about guys like you here who are well educated and know what they are talking about, mind that - I'm looking at the "unwashed masses" of Youtubers etc.) tend to forget that their own government willingly poisoned a whole generation of American citizens (and those of many other states) with countless nuclear tests up until the 1990s while giving a sh*t about the consequences. Not to forget they willingly radiated their soldiers with depleted uranium shells during the golf conflicts, committed genocidal acts in the Vietnam war etc. pp.
To make it short. Yes, we Germans have to carry a burden of guilt for the sins of our fathers. But so has everyone else, and anyone who denies that is just an uneducated hypocrite.
Let's not forget the past. But don't let us suffer from it. Instead use the knowledge to not repeat past mistakes and build a better future for us all and our children.
#18
Posted 29 January 2015 - 04:30 PM
As Red Dragon mentioned, learn from the past. It's really all you can do.
#19
Posted 30 January 2015 - 07:56 AM
Would you kindly tell me, who exactly surpassed the 60.000.000 victims of WW2?
Educate me, and maybe others.
#20
Posted 30 January 2015 - 09:37 AM
Marack Drock, on 30 January 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:
The Mongol Conflict is anywhere from 40 to 70 million.
Apart from this, I was talking about the direct loss of life through the Germans' genocide on minorities, not the total loss caused by the war (which, as cynical as it may sound, to a large part stems from unrestrained bombing by allied forces).
Stalin's purges and the Holodomor combined are likely to reach or surpass the death tolls of German concentration camps.
Again, this should not absolve Germany from the sins of the past, but you have to be realistic about it. The winner dictates history, that amongst other factors is responsible for the fact that German crimes have been investigated and promulgated far more widely than those of the other participants in the war.
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